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AvengerBak

Steel Ships, which to buy?

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I'm sitting at 15k steel right now, so next ranked/clan battles I should have enough with the discount to buy a steel ship. I'm an average player at best, but slowly getting better at the game so I do think any of the steel ships is something I can learn to play. 

What I want to know is the strengths and weaknesses of the T10 steel ships, whats special about them and which you would recommend to buy. I've wanted the bourgonge since I like French ships a lot, but Somers and Stalingrad look good to. I love my Alaska, would Stalingrad be comparable in terms of playstyle or is it more like Moskva. And bourgonge is it just a better Alsace? Somers again just seems like more of a competitive Benham.

 

Thanks

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They're all good ships, so it's going to come down to which one you're most interested in.  I see you play a pretty even split of classes.  The only one I have is Somers, whose closest comparable ship is the Shimakaze (but I think Somers is better).  I see you haven't played with the IJN torpedo boats at all so maybe Somers wouldn't be your cup of tea.  

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If you are considering any steel destroyer, ask @Destroyer_KuroshioKai, who I'm pretty sure has all three of Somers, Neustrashimy and Black, and can tell you what the upsides and downsides are of all three.

Then it comes down to whether the downsides are enough to dissuade you.

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1 minute ago, Brhinosaurus said:

They're all good ships, so it's going to come down to which one you're most interested in.  I see you play a pretty even split of classes.  The only one I have is Somers, whose closest comparable ship is the Shimakaze (but I think Somers is better).  I see you haven't played with the IJN torpedo boats at all so maybe Somers wouldn't be your cup of tea.  

After getting Haru and Kleber I plan on doing the torpedo boat line actually. Only been playing since February of this year, but eventually I want to play all the lines lol.

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3 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

If you are considering any steel destroyer, ask @Destroyer_KuroshioKai, who I'm pretty sure has all three of Somers, Neustrashimy and Black, and can tell you what the upsides and downsides are of all three.

Then it comes down to whether the downsides are enough to dissuade you.

I have to take his advice regarding which ships to buy with some measure because I make more mistakes than he does and he can make the ship perform to its strengths to a great degree than I do. I think most normal players should see it the same way. For instance, his loves the Neustrashimy, but there is a 0% chance I would play it as well as he does, which would end up being a waste of steel for me. I usually defer to more expertise, so if anyone thinks I'm wrong here, I welcome the explanation.

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At T10 well

It really depends on your play style if you like battleships or cruisers they're all good steel buys

 I do have the Somer's also and I'm really liking it but im a dd player 

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Neutra is just an awful boat, and not worth 20k Steel. Black has hilariously slow torps, but radar. Flint is a Atlanta with smoke.

Stalin is a bow in powerhouse, but hard to move around without exposing weaknesses.

Bourgourne is a monster. T10 Alsace with a reload booster and insane speed. Downside is its 32mm armor, you just get eaten away.

Somers is great, and suffers from slow gun dpm. Good concealment and torps are great.

Really depends on your preferred style of play tbh.

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I'd avoid the Flint honestly not really worth it compared to the others. It's not a bad ship but it doesn't really bring anything to the table in randoms that you couldn't get in a non steel ship. 

 

The Big B or the Somers is probably where it's at if you are just talking pure ability to effect the outcome of a pub match.  

 

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3 hours ago, AvengerBak said:

I'm sitting at 15k steel right now, so next ranked/clan battles I should have enough with the discount to buy a steel ship. I'm an average player at best, but slowly getting better at the game so I do think any of the steel ships is something I can learn to play. 

What I want to know is the strengths and weaknesses of the T10 steel ships, whats special about them and which you would recommend to buy. I've wanted the bourgonge since I like French ships a lot, but Somers and Stalingrad look good to. I love my Alaska, would Stalingrad be comparable in terms of playstyle or is it more like Moskva. And bourgonge is it just a better Alsace? Somers again just seems like more of a competitive Benham.

 

Thanks

Ok Somers from what I have heard is more torpedo focused than gun focused. Torpedo focused ships can be a lot of fun and quite useful, but they do require certain play styles, upgrades, and Captain skills to be effective. I use Gearing in torp build since I really like the IJN torp boat line and found Gearings various roles could allow for torpedo specialization. If your good with IJN torpedo boats or good with torpedo attacks with Gearing then Somers might do ok for you. But if you favor the gun power or AA power of USN DDs then Black with its Radar might work better for you.

If you really like French ships and want Bourgonge then that could be good for you.

Stalingrad despite it’s reputation for being overpowered does have some of the same drawbacks found on Moskava in the way of weak side armor that can lead to taking citadel hits of your not used to the high tier Russian CAs like Moskava. But if you have used Moskava with successes then you can use Stalingrad. Alaska and Stalingrad are different in how they play despite both being high tier Cruisers.

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1 hour ago, Cpt_RickSchwifty said:

I'd avoid the Flint honestly not really worth it compared to the others. It's not a bad ship but it doesn't really bring anything to the table in randoms that you couldn't get in a non steel ship. 

 

The Big B or the Somers is probably where it's at if you are just talking pure ability to effect the outcome of a pub match.  

 

Actually I got the Flint, and with the giving up of Radar like Atlanta has, you get Great a USN Smoke, USN torpedoes with Range over 9km that so often catch players off guard, you get hydro, and good AA. The smoke alone is useful asset since it allows for open water stealth firing, hiding allies, or concealing retreat.

Now you could get some of these things with other ships, but to get all of them in ship at tier 7 without a Division is more difficult. But it is a more specialized role. Really is awesome for those times when you have a mission that requires a ton of main gun hits.

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I have all of them except Bourgogne. 

Black is a ship that does best in a competitive setting with its smoke and radar combo. You need to reliably out trade destroyers with that combo and your good gun dpm to help your team. Hitting torpedoes cannot be counted on and unless you are really good, landing shots with USN 127s is difficult at longer ranges. It's a ship you want for contesting caps and fighting destroyers. I really like it. I used it to rank out last Ranked season

Neustrashimy is fairly anemic. It's torps and guns aren't great, the only thing it's got going for it is its heal and I found that it makes me play stupidly thinking I can be more aggressive. It's pretty sluggish and eats a lot of damage. It can be played well, but I don't enjoy it that much. 

Somers is a boat I am really enjoying. I prefer it as a torp boat to the Shima as its torps are better. It's guns are awful, but the alpha is OK on them when you need to use them. I enjoy taking the somers out when I want to relax a little more, not get into knife fights and such. I typically only pull it out with divisions when I just want to have a good relaxing time. 

Stalingrad is tanky with great guns. But you need stupid opponents to use those guns against. If you aren't seeing broadsides, you will not do well with it. It plays petty passively as it's detection is huge and you are extremely vulnerable when turning, so you tend to sit bow on a lot. I've mostly played this ship in competitive and it's used as a radar and behavior denial. If yo have a second ship to punish broadsides at range, it limits how the enemy can play a bit. It's not a ship I play in randoms as I do t enjoy that play style in randoms. 

The Flint is a boatload of fun, Atlanta is one of my favorite ships ans the Flint just has better torps and a smoke in place of radar. It's a squishy cruiser with slow shells that a lot of players find hard to play, bit if you can make those shell arcs work, it can be one of the most feared ships in the game. Destroyers don't fear you as much as an Atlanta, but bbs and cruisers do not like tasting the rainbow. 

And I do not own Bourgogne. 

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1 hour ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

If you are considering any steel destroyer, ask @Destroyer_KuroshioKai, who I'm pretty sure has all three of Somers, Neustrashimy and Black, and can tell you what the upsides and downsides are of all three.

Then it comes down to whether the downsides are enough to dissuade you.

I do have them all.

1 hour ago, Pytheas said:

I have to take his advice regarding which ships to buy with some measure because I make more mistakes than he does and he can make the ship perform to its strengths to a great degree than I do. I think most normal players should see it the same way. For instance, his loves the Neustrashimy, but there is a 0% chance I would play it as well as he does, which would end up being a waste of steel for me. I usually defer to more expertise, so if anyone thinks I'm wrong here, I welcome the explanation.

Out of the three Neustrashimy is the most forgiving.  Eating a torp, or getting caught in radar under effective fire ends the game with either a trip back to port or playing like a cripple the rest of the game.  Thats not really the case with Neustrashimy.  As long as it does not kill you, you have a decent amount of HP in reserve.  Even being on 4-5k HP with a repair ready you generally can still pick some fights while relying on your 20 second repair to keep you afloat.  Combine that with near best in class concealment, the alphabet in consumables, the ship is ridiculously flexible.  My only wish is I could run her in more competitive events, I would bring her to KOTS or CB even if I had to face T10s.

Somers is probably my next choice.  I still think it has issues against Daring and Concealment LU Grozovoy that she will face in any competitive event.  Simply due to her concealment to effective gun DPM ratio.  She does have great torps and her speed is much better than Gearing.  Her gun potential I still see as questionable.  Against most gunboats you are going to be looking to disengage quickly.  Somers is a good boat for random stomping, but against competitive teams I feel shes going to struggle due to the small HP pool and mediocre concealment and poor gun DPM.  Gearing recieving the reload buff on her torps a while back offset some of the torp differential too.

Black is my last choice.  She is good at one thing, fighting DDs for cap control.  Here I feel her radar nerf (the render delay for the team to shoot targets) heavily punished this ship.  That first few seconds of radar is usually the most productive, unfortunately only the Black can use it.  Her torps, while quick reloading are not reliable weapons, so you struggle against CAs and BBs, particularly when they are maneuvering.  

Regarding skill level, its not a matter of how you play in relation to another player, but more on understanding the play style of the ship and playing it to the best of your abilities.

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I have Stalingrad and Neustrashimy, I'm happy with both. I wasn't happy with nuestra at first until i figured out how to play it though.

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On 9/27/2019 at 1:40 PM, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

I do have them all.

Out of the three Neustrashimy is the most forgiving.  Eating a torp, or getting caught in radar under effective fire ends the game with either a trip back to port or playing like a cripple the rest of the game.  Thats not really the case with Neustrashimy.  As long as it does not kill you, you have a decent amount of HP in reserve.  Even being on 4-5k HP with a repair ready you generally can still pick some fights while relying on your 20 second repair to keep you afloat.  Combine that with near best in class concealment, the alphabet in consumables, the ship is ridiculously flexible.  My only wish is I could run her in more competitive events, I would bring her to KOTS or CB even if I had to face T10s.

Somers is probably my next choice.  I still think it has issues against Daring and Concealment LU Grozovoy that she will face in any competitive event.  Simply due to her concealment to effective gun DPM ratio.  She does have great torps and her speed is much better than Gearing.  Her gun potential I still see as questionable.  Against most gunboats you are going to be looking to disengage quickly.  Somers is a good boat for random stomping, but against competitive teams I feel shes going to struggle due to the small HP pool and mediocre concealment and poor gun DPM.  Gearing recieving the reload buff on her torps a while back offset some of the torp differential too.

Black is my last choice.  She is good at one thing, fighting DDs for cap control.  Here I feel her radar nerf (the render delay for the team to shoot targets) heavily punished this ship.  That first few seconds of radar is usually the most productive, unfortunately only the Black can use it.  Her torps, while quick reloading are not reliable weapons, so you struggle against CAs and BBs, particularly when they are maneuvering.  

Regarding skill level, its not a matter of how you play in relation to another player, but more on understanding the play style of the ship and playing it to the best of your abilities.

I love your take on this, I also have all 3. Playing Neustrashimy in ranked was one of the most enjoyable ranked seasons I had, and I wish there were more competitive places to play it. Black is fun, but if you aren't fighting DDs it's mostly area denial and capping. Somers is a very fun boat and torps are great, especially after you speed them up with the captain skill. Overall, I like Neustrashimy the most. As you said, easily the most versatile of the group, the repair party is ridiculous, and most players think it's guns are awful but are in for a huge surprise. 

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2 minutes ago, RAGINGSP00N said:

I love your take on this, I also have all 3. Playing Neustrashimy in ranked was one of the most enjoyable ranked seasons I had, and I wish there were more competitive places to play it. Black is fun, but if you aren't fighting DDs it's mostly area denial and capping. Somers is a very fun boat and torps are great, especially after you speed them up with the captain skill. Overall, I like Neustrashimy the most. As you said, easily the most versatile of the group, the repair party is ridiculous, and most players think it's guns are awful but are in for a huge surprise. 

If the changes on TASM go through Black gets hammered.  It will effect my position on the ship.  Its my hope that TASM changes purposed will have buffed torp for those worst effected, or a fresh set of torps issued to offer something a little more reliable at the cost of some range.

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Do you have exactly 15000 steel? Even if you rank out (5500 steel), you won’t have enough to get anything over Somers with 25% off coupon.  
I’m going for Stalingrad myself, I only need to reach rank 6 to get her...  😬

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I got the Somers and to be honest I wish I had gotten the Stalingrad instead. If  torp detection changes my Somers could end up being just a overpriced Shim with zero anti air protection.  Every time I have used the Somers it has been devastated by aircraft even in smoke. It was like it was not in smoke and I even used the capt skill to have more smoke.  The steel is just to hard to get.

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Stalingrad is the most similar to the Moskva with many of the same strengths and weaknesses. It plays VERY differently from the Alaska.

Don't have one yet, but my clanmate who does says the Somers is very similar to the Gearing and prefers the trade offs of higher alpha for lower dpm and the extra torp launcher over wider single set coverage for competitive, but of course the Somers is second only to the Arkansas Beta in terms of AA defense so when a CV is around... 

Bourgogne is a buffed 'pre nerf' Alsace and IMHO more fun than the Stalingrad in randoms but may struggle in CB unless you build your whole team and strategy around exploiting his strengths.

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