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OttoVonPrien

Co-ops ending sooner and sooner- less fun-less xp

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IT's Not just me that thinks so, but others that play coops,

just had a game end with 2 red ships and two caps left to cap (ABC map) just before I could cap, the cap I fought the whole game over.

Games seem to be ending quicker and quicker with more red ships and uncapped caps on map,

always seems to be 2 seconds before I would have finish capping or my torps land, which can really tee a person off when trying to fill a mission or train a new commander.

Sure I could play rands, Sens, ranked or CBattles, AND I DO . but why should we be robbed of the fun, xp and missions because we decided to play a coop?!?

when I play coops it's for the following reasons

1 to relax, and just enjoy a game (people who enjoy the game are more willing to spend money (hint, hint)

2. to play a game system that is more forgiving for AFKs and total clowns, with very little abusive chat or behavior compared to rands

3 to control anger issues, see #2 (LOL)

4 to train new commanders and get to know ships better before jumping into rands-ranked or CBattles.

5 Some ships are a lot of fun and do well in coops but turkeys or mediocre in rands, etc, I play all my 280+ ships but some I'd never want to play in rands. 

6 some missions are better done in a coop than in a rand.

7 sure coops pay out less than rands but you can usually do 2 winning coops in the time of one 50%wr chance rand which comes close to evening things out.

8 Some of my hardest fought games have been coops where it came down to me and 6 reds. OR when I have one of those rare 8 kill games. Value my coop win rate as much as any other wr perhaps more because my skill  can make up for a bad team that would have pre-doomed a rand.

Did someone in programing lower the point that games end early, seems like something changed a few weeks back. at first I thought it was just me till others started [edited] about it also.  And it must have been a big increase not just a little tweak for people to notice so quickly. perhaps a 5x increase in games ending too early.

Not a good way to make friends WG, If you force me to cut back on playing coops by robbing me of the smaller xp coops produce by ending way to soon, I would not compensate by more rands, just more tv- or books instead. Thus less consumables-flags-camo used, less money spent on the game.

Someone at WG does not understand why people play coops or wants to force all players into the same mold.

WG anything that makes people angry and takes away from the fun is not a good thing WG. wise up this is just going to hurt your cash flow

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People from PVP clearing in some cases hundreds of ships in PVE for rewards- get in, get out. No time for dilly dallying- 

All ahead flank, shoot until you’re dead and move on to the next ship. 99% win rate- nothing worth getting emotional about. People who live for PVE are paying the price- so sad.

It will be over when it’s over. 

Edited by _ENO_
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Removing the mercy rule for co-op is not likely to happen.  WG apparently likes the combat rules to stay the same as co-op is a basic type of training for randoms. 

 

Since people like playing co-op for the relaxed atmosphere, co-op mains would like a change. But, what if in co-op, the cost in points of sinking a bot was less? Say 25% to 50% less? Then players could still lose on points, but it would be much harder for the bots to get to 0 points too fast. Conversely it would be harder for players to reach 1000 points, giving more time to kill bots.

 

Would this work for you?

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I would expect it to slow down soon.  Most of the collectors will have their flakes taken care of, as that's the most likely reason.

 

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If you want long drawn out battle, use a training room.  While mercy rule does needlessly end a match earlier than it's sometimes desired, not having to nearly double the match length to get a stupid bot at the back of the map driving in circles is appreciated.  In such cases where a bot CV is present, "kill one, ram one" is the MO.  Grinds aren't grinds if it's done in a couple 4m battles. 

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1 hour ago, OttoVonPrien said:

Some of my hardest fought games have been coops

:cap_fainting:

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1 hour ago, Kizarvexis said:

Removing the mercy rule for co-op is not likely to happen.  WG apparently likes the combat rules to stay the same as co-op is a basic type of training for randoms. 

Since people like playing co-op for the relaxed atmosphere, co-op mains would like a change. But, what if in co-op, the cost in points of sinking a bot was less? Say 25% to 50% less? Then players could still lose on points, but it would be much harder for the bots to get to 0 points too fast. Conversely it would be harder for players to reach 1000 points, giving more time to kill bots.

Would this work for you?

The rule reduced the damage COOP mains get to force them to play randoms....  I really have no desire to play randoms and only play randoms when the clan wants to.  Our host should stop screwing with the COOP mains and let the matches cycle to the end of the clock or 1000 points.  I can't tell you the thousands of points in value the mercy rule has taken from me.

I know, they could care less.  And, they'd make 20 excuses as to why they would not remove this.  But, reciprocally, I am not paying a cent in real money till they do and have not for over a year.....  And, when asked to demo games for the e-Sports clubs locally, WoWs isn't on the demo list....  You reap what you sow. 

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48 minutes ago, DolphinPrincess said:

Torpedo hit related missions (Bots just charge in making them ideal torpedo magnets)

Dang, what bots are you fighting? :Smile_veryhappy:

I'll admit, torps work great on bots at 2-4 km depending on the torp type, but anything further than that and they have uncanny torp dodging abilities. Even the 'disengage target lock' trick hasn't seemed as successful as it used to be lately. It's honestly getting annoying to me, nearly as annoying as the battles where the rest of the team kills stuff before I can get some of my slow BBs into a fighting position. Considering I've been working on rehabing my USN/Allies account, which has been badly neglected compared to my IJN/Axis account, it just so happens that's where all my slow BBs are. Even in co-op I can't take high tier battles endlessly, gotta drop down and try to have some fun sometimes. Of course then some other issues also come into play, like the bad state of how the mid- and low tier USN BBs have been power creeped for the most part (and not just because they're slow), the amount of DDs/torp cruisers in play, and a few other things. 

I think Kiz's suggestion sounds like a good option. It would keep the training aspect and ease the over fast battle issue. I'd suggest also capping DDs per team to 2 or 3, as 4 or more is too many. Not only do they kill/die too fast, the tiny health pools mean that there isn't enough food to go around.

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59 minutes ago, DolphinPrincess said:

Most of us play coop for 1 reason: to complete missions as efficiently as possible.

These include, but not limited to:

  • Special events where first win is necessary to obtain rewards (such as the warship anniversary and snow flake event)
  • Legendary Module grind (part 3 requiring 15 wins) 
  • Directive secondary battery hits (secondary spec is garbage in randoms so we take it to coop)
  • Torpedo hit related missions (Bots just charge in making them ideal torpedo magnets)

So yeah, we play to end the game as fast as possible because the whole point of gaming is to show you are superior to others, and what is the point of showing yourself to be superior to a bot?

Dunno, the point of a game is to have fun... Not sure where the "superior" attitude comes into it, that is kind of silly...

Personally I enjoy co-op, it is far more relaxing and fun. I just like blasting stuff with cool ships and enjoying myself. 

PvP is ok, boring as hell, but it is ok. Usually only go into that mode to complete certain missions (spotting related missions especially) and to grind stock ships. It just isn't much fun since everyone just runs away when you start shooting.. The other easy missions to complete in PvP are "potential damage" missions since you have so many players on each side. Super easy, I tend to get over a million potential damage every time I play the mode. 

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2 hours ago, OttoVonPrien said:

but why should we be robbed of the fun

So, we are all supposed to .. play the way you play.

Not likely to happen.. as someone else posted, playing CoOp is a quick fix for gaining various rewards. We didn't make the system.

You also need to understand that CoOp is... farm team league play... it is so easy.. you just go in and start shooting. What else would you have people do? How should I play other than killing the enemy ships as fast as I can?  What would the point be of not shooting them?  I don;t get it.

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Personally am glad I can get the battle done quickly...gotta get those ships done fast to get my rewards.  But with that said, the programming of the bots needs some work...they are way too aggressive, they come in piecemeal, so fix up those two things for the PVE players....I do find the T10 games a lot more dangerous, was actually in a losing match couple days ago... you can't take those high tier guns for granted.

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7 minutes ago, Asym_KS said:

The rule reduced the damage COOP mains get to force them to play randoms.... 

How much damage are you wanting?  It's pretty easy to pull off 100k+ in co op, especially when you're in a ship with torps or a high HP.  Ramming is a viable tactic.  Removing mercy rule isn't going to substantially inflate your numbers.  Bots always yolo and they're a sucker for torps, no matter if they're friendly fired or not. 

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1 hour ago, DolphinPrincess said:

Most of us play coop for 1 reason: to complete missions as efficiently as possible.

These include, but not limited to:

  • Special events where first win is necessary to obtain rewards (such as the warship anniversary and snow flake event)
  • Legendary Module grind (part 3 requiring 15 wins) 
  • Directive secondary battery hits (secondary spec is garbage in randoms so we take it to coop)
  • Torpedo hit related missions (Bots just charge in making them ideal torpedo magnets)

So yeah, we play to end the game as fast as possible because the whole point of gaming is to show you are superior to others, and what is the point of showing yourself to be superior to a bot?

 

Ironically, what I'm seeing as a result of this is more and more players wandering into Co-op who are clearly demonstrating that they're NOT superior to the bots, by ending up dead almost immediately.   Players who think Co-op is YOLO-mode, who just go in a straight line and die. 

At least when they do that, they're forestalling the "mercy rule" and giving the rest of us a chance to actually finish those battles instead of having them cut short with multiple red ships left.

 

 

Edited by KilljoyCutter

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16 minutes ago, Asym_KS said:

I can't tell you the thousands of points in value the mercy rule has taken from me.

Then get yer butt in gear and do some of the killing yourself.... stop whining about others getting the kills... the only way the bots don't get Zero'd out is when they also kill or cap.. so what you want is for some of your team mates to die so you can go on killing ships that are left.???? and/or for the bots to cap so they don't get zero'd....  this all makes now sense... if you want to gain points of value, play in random where you get paid more...

 

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4 minutes ago, Elo_J_Fudpucker said:

...and I had to go look up the "Mercy  Rule".. it is so random that it happens in .. errr ...random.

The "mercy rule" is the bane of Co-op.  If the "payout" in that mode weren't already quashed, it wouldn't be a big deal, but it's an extra layer of getting cheaped out that just doesn't need to be there, the bots aren't suffering emotional trauma from being made to stick around another couple minutes while they lose, and the battles are a bit too fast even when it doesn't kick in. 

 

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The coalition of the willing... Complain to the boss about rules, advocate to him to change it so that, HE can earn pennies (there were 2 ships left)..Niet..

Co-Op mains receive the same amount of XP compared to Random mains... I would argue to take away CVs from Co-op... Those things have increase the co-op battle from less then 10 min on avg to over 10 min avg.

when 1 Random game = to 3 co-op games...

Easily co-op players make MORE then Randoms players...

I dont think this idea will move forward... How about hiring an game advocate to mess with the game ??? Ichase has a 2 for 2 avg... 2 torp videos up 2 torp nerfs... Maybe he will back your cause...

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10 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

 

Ironically, what I'm seeing as a result of this is more and more players wandering into Co-op who are clearly demonstrating that they're NOT superior to the bots, by ending up dead almost immediately.   Players who think Co-op is YOLO-mode, who just go in a straight line and die. 

At least when they do that, they're forestalling the "mercy rule" and giving the rest of us a chance to actually finish those battles instead of having them cut short with multiple red ships left.

 

 

I think the point of the PVP folks is to get into battle, shoot some shells, if they get killed early no biggie, the other players will carry them to a win, and that's all that matters, they've already moved onto the next ship that needs a flake knocked off.
As already pointed out, it's not really a challenge most of the time with 7 other players of even the slightest skill set, so with any luck the flake thingy will be over soon and the mode return to normal... 4.5 minute battles instead of the 2.5 we have now. :Smile_veryhappy:

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Just now, SpudZero said:

I think the point of the PVP folks is to get into battle, shoot some shells, if they get killed early no biggie, the other players will carry them to a win, and that's all that matters, they've already moved onto the next ship that needs a flake knocked off.
As already pointed out, it's not really a challenge most of the time with 7 other players of even the slightest skill set, so with any luck the flake thingy will be over soon and the mode return to normal... 4.5 minute battles instead of the 2.5 we have now. :Smile_veryhappy:

I don't much care what they're trying to do or how hard they're trying.

If they get killed by the bots, they're demonstrating something that I don't think they'd be happy to have laid at their doorstep regarding their relatively "level" in comparison to the bots. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

The coalition of the willing... Complain to the boss about rules, advocate to him to change it so that, HE can earn pennies (there were 2 ships left)..Niet..

Co-Op mains receive the same amount of XP compared to Random mains... I would argue to take away CVs from Co-op... Those things have increase the co-op battle from less then 10 min on avg to over 10 min avg.

when 1 Random game = to 3 co-op games...

Easily co-op players make MORE then Randoms players...

I dont think this idea will move forward... How about hiring an game advocate to mess with the game ??? Ichase has a 2 for 2 avg... 2 torp videos up 2 torp nerfs... Maybe he will back your cause...

LOL right, I see all kinds of PVE players with 1.whatever billion credits and freeXP out the whazoo... no. we don't make anywhere near what random mains make. Some people that play a lot of OP's make really good bank, but not PVE.

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7 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

You appear to be operating from faulty data.

@SpudZero

Test it... In CO-op Sink 2 ships avg and look at your end result.. Then  times it by how many co-op games fit in an Random (usually 3 co-op games for me). Must tiers Co-op make or exceed random players in earnings even in a loss... 

The only exception is achievements for which Co-op cant equal.

Edited by Navalpride33

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Just now, Navalpride33 said:

Test it... In CO-op Sink 2 ships avg and look at your end result.. Then  times it by how many co-op games fit in an Random. Must tiers Co-op make or exceed random players in earnings even in a loss... 

I've seen how the numbers compare, Co-op payout is paltry even slanting the figures for "battles per unit time".

Plus,  I don't get 2 or 3 daily bonuses if I'm doing Co-op, I'm still only getting the 1. 

 

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5 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

I've seen how the numbers compare, Co-op payout is paltry even slanting the figures for "battles per unit time".

Plus,  I don't get 2 or 3 daily bonuses if I'm doing Co-op, I'm still only getting the 1. 

 

Risk over rewards Killj, we all know... Co-op for the devs is the kindergarten/pre-school game mode for risks there for the rewards are not that far off or MORE from Random..

Edited by Navalpride33
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