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legozer

Friesland vs Udaloi

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So, I've been thinking about blowing 1 million fxp on the Friesland, and I love the idea of a gunboat DD with great AA, but I feel like I've already got that, and it didn't cost me any fxp: Udaloi.

So, here is a quick side by side I used to help me decide.

 

Guns

Friesland has a turret rotation of 25 deg/sec, vs Udaloi's 20 de/sec. A fair edge to the Friesland.

Friesland is out gunned though in max dmg per shell at both HE and AP. The gap with AP is pronounced (Fries 2100 vs Udaloi 2600). A fair edge to Udaloi.

RoF isn't even competetive. Friesland is WAY better. A BIG edge to Friesland.

Fire chance is same.

Shell velocity is a fair edge to Udaloi.

Friesland has 1km more range, but the shell velocity difference gives both ships very similar effective range, with a slight edge to Udaloi. With AFT, Udaloi gets WAY better effective range. A large edge to Udaloi.

Overall, Udaloi is a better gunner by a fair margin. Friesland out DPMs but lacks effective range. Given each ships bad detectability, Udaloi is clearly the better gunboat.

 

Torpedo Systems

Friesland has no torpedoes. At all. None. Udaloi has 9 torpedo tubes (3x3). A MASSIVE edge to Udaloi.

Udaloi torps are short range, at 6km, but they are very fast at 69 (nice) kts. Almost unavoidable at close range.

Overall, Sampson has an edge on Friesland in torpedo systems. Udaloi has an enormous advantage. 

 

Survivability

Friesland has 17,600 HP to Udaloi 16,000. A fair edge to Friesland.

Udaloi has the Repair Party consumable, which completely negates Friesland's edge in HP. 

** I have no resource to accurately compare the armor schemes**

Friesland top speed is 36 kts. Udaloi is 40. A considerable edge to Udaloi.

Friesland rudder shifts almost 3 secs faster than Udaloi. A considerable edge to Friesland.

Friesland dectability is a bit less than .5kms under Udaloi. Small edge to Friesland.

Overall, Udaloi seems to have a solid edge over Friesland in survivability.

 

Anti-Aircraft Sysytems

This is a bit outside my grasp. It seems as though Friesland is capable of doing far more damage per second than Udaloi.

Udaloi is equipped with more AA equipment, and both ships have identical range.

Both ships have DFAA. 

Overall, Friesland seems to have a considerable edge over Udaloi in AA.

 

 

Apples to Apples

Udaloi has a distinct advantage over Friesland in gunnery. Udaloi is out DPMd and Friesland has far superior turret rotation. Udaloi has excellent, short range torpedoes. Friesland is out torped by several BBs, and every single DD in the game. in equal footing, 1v1 knife fight engagements, Udaloi wins 6 out of 10 times (torps). In long range engagements, Udaloi has superior firepower, while Friesland has superior handling. Udaloi is a better gunboat overall, by almost any measure.

Udaloi has greater survivability.

The only thing Friesland really has bragging rights on at T9 is AA. Friesland seems to have far better AA capability. Udaloi and Kitakaze can argue over who has the 2nd best AA at T9, but Friesland is the king, hands down. With the down-tier migration of CV players looking for free snacks, T8-10 is largely devoid of significant numbers of CV players in the current meta.

Overall, Udaloi is a much better destroyer and it has solid AA to boot. 

Friesland seems like a tremendous waste of FXP. Can anyone explain why I should even consider it? I cant even use the captain in any other ships.....

 

 

 

 

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3 things to keep in mind.

+ WOWS is undergoing some major changes with the forthcoming integration of submarines. I am confident Friesland is very well placed to serve in the ASW role. + This means Fries is not only a good counter to many enemy dds (not all by any means), to enemy air squadrons, but also to subs, to all assymetrical threats. 

+ Friesland as a t9 freexp bote, is a better credit earner than Udaloi will ever be.

- As a Pan Euro ship, investing in a 19pt captain might seem less rewarding, Friesland isn't a trainer for anything.

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First of all, am pretty certain you compare stock values on Udaloi since things like HP and torpedoes are different on the top hull.

I got Friesland and here are some observations. 

First of all, the gunnery. Never disregard the psychological factor that a constant stream of shells can bring. Most want absolutely nothing to do with it, regardless of class. 

Secondly, torpedoes. Udaloi in fact gets 3x5 if I remember correctly, one in centerline and two in side mounts. You are correct that Friesland is at a disadvantage here. 

Thirdly, concealment. Most builds on Udaloi I have seen revolve around ditching CE for AFT, then focusing on 3 Point skills. In that sense Udaloi gets an even worse concealment, meaning Friesland has it a bit better. Still bad concealment for Friesland though. 

Onto consumables now. Again if not mistaken Udaloi has reduced charges in most consumables, so for example Repair Party and Smoke are 2 with premium consumables. 

Friesland gets a long duration USN style smoke and a 5km Hydro that can make her immune to torpedoes and can also be used offensively. You can't imagine how many people smoke up versus a Friesland at close range and get blasted because of it.

To conclude, I don't think Udaloi is that much better than Friesland, nor that Friesland is superior to Udaloi. In the end it comes down to the operator. If the Udaloi keeps it's range and uses most out of it's Repair it's superior. If Friesland uses her consumables right she is a huge threat to any target, regardless of her lack of torpedoes.

It's all up to personal preference and I can understand not wanting to give 1 million FXP. To me it was worth it, to you it may not be. 

What you get with Friesland is tier X DPM and a very strong combo of consumables in exchange for the torpedo tubes. What you get with Udaloi is a relatively versatile gunboat.

Edited by warheart1992

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3 hours ago, legozer said:

So, I've been thinking about blowing 1 million fxp on the Friesland, and I love the idea of a gunboat DD with great AA, but I feel like I've already got that, and it didn't cost me any fxp: Udaloi.

So, here is a quick side by side I used to help me decide.

 

Guns

Friesland has a turret rotation of 25 deg/sec, vs Udaloi's 20 de/sec. A fair edge to the Friesland.

Friesland is out gunned though in max dmg per shell at both HE and AP. The gap with AP is pronounced (Fries 2100 vs Udaloi 2600). A fair edge to Udaloi.

RoF isn't even competetive. Friesland is WAY better. A BIG edge to Friesland.

Fire chance is same.

Shell velocity is a fair edge to Udaloi.

Friesland has 1km more range, but the shell velocity difference gives both ships very similar effective range, with a slight edge to Udaloi. With AFT, Udaloi gets WAY better effective range. A large edge to Udaloi.

Overall, Udaloi is a better gunner by a fair margin. Friesland out DPMs but lacks effective range. Given each ships bad detectability, Udaloi is clearly the better gunboat.

 

Torpedo Systems

Friesland has no torpedoes. At all. None. Udaloi has 9 torpedo tubes (3x3). A MASSIVE edge to Udaloi.

Udaloi torps are short range, at 6km, but they are very fast at 69 (nice) kts. Almost unavoidable at close range.

Overall, Sampson has an edge on Friesland in torpedo systems. Udaloi has an enormous advantage. 

 

Survivability

Friesland has 17,600 HP to Udaloi 16,000. A fair edge to Friesland.

Udaloi has the Repair Party consumable, which completely negates Friesland's edge in HP. 

** I have no resource to accurately compare the armor schemes**

Friesland top speed is 36 kts. Udaloi is 40. A considerable edge to Udaloi.

Friesland rudder shifts almost 3 secs faster than Udaloi. A considerable edge to Friesland.

Friesland dectability is a bit less than .5kms under Udaloi. Small edge to Friesland.

Overall, Udaloi seems to have a solid edge over Friesland in survivability.

 

Anti-Aircraft Sysytems

This is a bit outside my grasp. It seems as though Friesland is capable of doing far more damage per second than Udaloi.

Udaloi is equipped with more AA equipment, and both ships have identical range.

Both ships have DFAA. 

Overall, Friesland seems to have a considerable edge over Udaloi in AA.

 

 

Apples to Apples

Udaloi has a distinct advantage over Friesland in gunnery. Udaloi is out DPMd and Friesland has far superior turret rotation. Udaloi has excellent, short range torpedoes. Friesland is out torped by several BBs, and every single DD in the game. in equal footing, 1v1 knife fight engagements, Udaloi wins 6 out of 10 times (torps). In long range engagements, Udaloi has superior firepower, while Friesland has superior handling. Udaloi is a better gunboat overall, by almost any measure.

Udaloi has greater survivability.

The only thing Friesland really has bragging rights on at T9 is AA. Friesland seems to have far better AA capability. Udaloi and Kitakaze can argue over who has the 2nd best AA at T9, but Friesland is the king, hands down. With the down-tier migration of CV players looking for free snacks, T8-10 is largely devoid of significant numbers of CV players in the current meta.

Overall, Udaloi is a much better destroyer and it has solid AA to boot. 

Friesland seems like a tremendous waste of FXP. Can anyone explain why I should even consider it? I cant even use the captain in any other ships.....

 

 

 

 

I don’t have an Udaloi but am familiar with her stats and have played against him. I wouldn’t say Udaloi carries a gunnery advantage over Friesland. Shell velocity is better but Fries doesn’t have trouble landing shells on targets at range other than DDs but that’s not unique to Fries.   I’m also not sure that udaloi wins 6 of 10 knife fights with Fries 1 v 1.  Maybe at long range that happens but a smart Fries player would go dark then try to force a closer range engagement.

 

fries is a different play style and a fun gun boat. I fear no other dd in a knife fight at any tier. But she does lack torps and requires good map awareness and positioning.  She’s unique and not for everyone but I have zero regrets so far in Free XPing her.

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You forget that Udaloi is also way faster and has a speed boost. Really, why anyone would want to drive Friesland is beyond me, she seems absolutely useless and better served as a T6. Please WG, make her a T6? No other change, just tiering. Should be funny.

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Legozer - did you forget about the 5km Hydro?  You know that Hydro that allows you to close in on the Udaloi, trade with it, and then melt it from smoke...

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1 hour ago, BiggieD61 said:

Legozer - did you forget about the 5km Hydro?  You know that Hydro that allows you to close in on the Udaloi, trade with it, and then melt it from smoke...

Yes. I did, actually. 

Thanks. Hydro makes a big difference.

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4 hours ago, warheart1992 said:

First of all, am pretty certain you compare stock values on Udaloi since things like HP and torpedoes are different on the top hull.

I got Friesland and here are some observations. 

First of all, the gunnery. Never disregard the psychological factor that a constant stream of shells can bring. Most want absolutely nothing to do with it, regardless of class. 

Secondly, torpedoes. Udaloi in fact gets 3x5 if I remember correctly, one in centerline and two in side mounts. You are correct that Friesland is at a disadvantage here. 

Thirdly, concealment. Most builds on Udaloi I have seen revolve around ditching CE for AFT, then focusing on 3 Point skills. In that sense Udaloi gets an even worse concealment, meaning Friesland has it a bit better. Still bad concealment for Friesland though. 

Onto consumables now. Again if not mistaken Udaloi has reduced charges in most consumables, so for example Repair Party and Smoke are 2 with premium consumables. 

Friesland gets a long duration USN style smoke and a 5km Hydro that can make her immune to torpedoes and can also be used offensively. You can't imagine how many people smoke up versus a Friesland at close range and get blasted because of it.

To conclude, I don't think Udaloi is that much better than Friesland, nor that Friesland is superior to Udaloi. In the end it comes down to the operator. If the Udaloi keeps it's range and uses most out of it's Repair it's superior. If Friesland uses her consumables right she is a huge threat to any target, regardless of her lack of torpedoes.

It's all up to personal preference and I can understand not wanting to give 1 million FXP. To me it was worth it, to you it may not be. 

What you get with Friesland is tier X DPM and a very strong combo of consumables in exchange for the torpedo tubes. What you get with Udaloi is a relatively versatile gunboat.

Awesome. Thanks.

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This made me go back and look at my Uda stats. Here they are for comparison (Small sample size, I know.)

1501690861_friesanduda.thumb.png.886a32aab658aca6bf744de5ed3f87df.png

I thoroughly enjoy the Friesland. The AA gives you the freedom to operate independently of your team if need be without fear of CVs ruining your day. (I mean they still can, but less so.) 

The playstyles I think make the comparison difficult. The Uda I played very much like a small cruiser, with AFT and no concealment, similar to how I play the Tashkent. 

The Friesland is a knife fighter. It gets deadlier the closer in you get, so that's a big difference. If someone said to me 'I like RU DDs, should I get the Fries?' I would say they're so different, it's tough to say. 

The Z46 is a more apt comparison in a lot of ways, I think. 

The best way I can describe the Fries is this: 

Take a Z46 and remove the torps. 

Infuse it's main guns and AA guns with plutonium and give it's gunners and loaders prison-quality crystal meth. 

Steal the smoke technology from the damn Yanks and install that too. 

Maintain your German Hydro. 

 

That's it. It's a Z46 with +++ Guns, +++ AA, but - torps and - detection. 

I have zero regrets about dropping Free XP to get her. It's a mini-Wooster that can almost singlehandedly turn flanks provided there's not an abundance of radar cruisers, or railgun cruisers like Zao and Stalingrad. 

Edited by Falls_USMC
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6 hours ago, legozer said:

Friesland seems like a tremendous waste of FXP. Can anyone explain why I should even consider it? I cant even use the captain in any other ships.....

Two soft things... IIRC, Friesland has 360-degree turret rotation on both turrets and incredibly good fire angles. I don't know how that compares to Udaloi, as I have not ground that line myself, but one of the big reasons I want Friesland is how comfortable the gunnery looks.

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Friesland is neutered, all my other destroyers keep mounting it in displays of dominance. Do you know how embarrassing it is when the brass comes through and sees Kamikaze humping the pride of the Dutch fleet(oh wait, it's the entirety of the Dutch fleet).

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Friesland makes use of that 19 point Blyskawica captain left over from ranked a few years ago.

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@legozer  IMO its not an apples to apples comparison.   Udaloi is a very capable generalist that can fill just about any situation that comes up in a match where the Friesland is a fearsome specialist that can face a situation where its just not the right answer.

So, to me, is not a matter of comparing the ships but simply a decision if you want to dump the resources into a specialist that may not fit with how you approach DD play or hold what you got and see what new shinny thing WG puts out next.  Basically do you like the game play the Friesland brings to the table enough to play it a bunch?   If you do drop the dime and have fun.   If you feel hampered by its lack of flexibility (no torps) then wait.

 

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17 hours ago, warheart1992 said:

First of all, am pretty certain you compare stock values on Udaloi since things like HP and torpedoes are different on the top hull.

I got Friesland and here are some observations. 

First of all, the gunnery. Never disregard the psychological factor that a constant stream of shells can bring. Most want absolutely nothing to do with it, regardless of class. 

Secondly, torpedoes. Udaloi in fact gets 3x5 if I remember correctly, one in centerline and two in side mounts. You are correct that Friesland is at a disadvantage here. 

Thirdly, concealment. Most builds on Udaloi I have seen revolve around ditching CE for AFT, then focusing on 3 Point skills. In that sense Udaloi gets an even worse concealment, meaning Friesland has it a bit better. Still bad concealment for Friesland though. 

Onto consumables now. Again if not mistaken Udaloi has reduced charges in most consumables, so for example Repair Party and Smoke are 2 with premium consumables. 

Friesland gets a long duration USN style smoke and a 5km Hydro that can make her immune to torpedoes and can also be used offensively. You can't imagine how many people smoke up versus a Friesland at close range and get blasted because of it.

To conclude, I don't think Udaloi is that much better than Friesland, nor that Friesland is superior to Udaloi. In the end it comes down to the operator. If the Udaloi keeps it's range and uses most out of it's Repair it's superior. If Friesland uses her consumables right she is a huge threat to any target, regardless of her lack of torpedoes.

It's all up to personal preference and I can understand not wanting to give 1 million FXP. To me it was worth it, to you it may not be. 

What you get with Friesland is tier X DPM and a very strong combo of consumables in exchange for the torpedo tubes. What you get with Udaloi is a relatively versatile gunboat.

@legozer Udaloi does not have reduced number of consumables. Only Grozovoi and Neustrashimy do. Udaloi does have a significant health advantage over Friesland.

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On 9/26/2019 at 11:54 AM, BadWolfz said:

@legozer  IMO its not an apples to apples comparison.   Udaloi is a very capable generalist that can fill just about any situation that comes up in a match where the Friesland is a fearsome specialist that can face a situation where its just not the right answer.

So, to me, is not a matter of comparing the ships but simply a decision if you want to dump the resources into a specialist that may not fit with how you approach DD play or hold what you got and see what new shinny thing WG puts out next.  Basically do you like the game play the Friesland brings to the table enough to play it a bunch?   If you do drop the dime and have fun.   If you feel hampered by its lack of flexibility (no torps) then wait.

 

Yeah, I've arrived at the same conclusion.

Having spent some time playing T9 over last few days, I've encountered Friesland a number of times. It's less like Udaloi and more comparable to Haragumo. It seems to me like a ship that can really make an impact in division play.

Thanks everyone for your input in this thread. I'm now leaning towards picking her up this weekend.

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Get Friesland most fun ship IMO and it's not a stupid Russian paper ship that some Russian "Naval Designer" drew on a napkin when he was drunk at a bar one time. The only line the Russians deserve is their upcoming sub line, that's it.

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On 9/26/2019 at 4:00 AM, Lert said:

You forget that Udaloi is also way faster and has a speed boost. Really, why anyone would want to drive Friesland is beyond me, she seems absolutely useless and better served as a T6. Please WG, make her a T6? No other change, just tiering. Should be funny.

Friesland's one of my most favourite ships, well placed at T9, I actually kind of think she deserves T10. I guess she doesn't fit your play style. She definitely fits mine though because I am garbage at hitting torps lol, I'd rather just go all in on the guns.

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1 hour ago, Iron_Salvo921 said:

Friesland's one of my most favourite ships, well placed at T9, I actually kind of think she deserves T10. I guess she doesn't fit your play style. She definitely fits mine though because I am garbage at hitting torps lol, I'd rather just go all in on the guns.

9nohQh4.jpg

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On 9/29/2019 at 5:59 AM, Lert said:

9nohQh4.jpg

LOL, Iron_Salvo921, it's ok. It went over mine too........

 

I love the Freisland and use her to hunt DD's and melt airwings almost exclusively. The only DDs that are challenging are the Udaloi, Harugumo and Kitakaze gun boats. But, they hydro and smoke work well in unison. I am by no means a unicum player, but Friesland is a beast of a boat. Torps arguably would be nice, even if not historically accurate except for a one off, but hey, how many paper designs do we already have that never got built....lol.

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7 hours ago, Iron_Salvo921 said:

Ooooooh lol I see... NVM we can forget this ever happened.

 

5 minutes ago, strykerpsg said:

LOL, Iron_Salvo921, it's ok. It went over mine too........

I guess I should've made it more clear that it was a joke. :D I'd hoped the suggesting to make it T6 and "should be funny" comment would've been enough, but reading it back I should've make it more clear.

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2 hours ago, Lert said:

 

I guess I should've made it more clear that it was a joke. :D I'd hoped the suggesting to make it T6 and "should be funny" comment would've been enough, but reading it back I should've make it more clear.

Ya I assumed the T6 part was a joke but I thought you were serious about not liking it

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Don't have either but have faced both on opposing side several times when bottom tier in my Fiji. Before I did I had watched several videos of Friesland seemingly able to kraken at will. So first time I was like oh no, not a Friesland. Thankfully they were not a problem probably because the users had just got them and had not figured them out. In one battle I sank one and a Belfast. 0n the other hand I have been sunk more times than I can count by a Udaloi. They are the ban of my existence along with a well played lightning among others. Maybe in 6 months when users get proficient I will fear them, but for now I just think of them as targets.

I thought about getting one for future use, but by the time I decided to pull the trigger they were no longer for sale. They do look like the could have a huge fun factor. And for me that's what this game is all about.

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20 minutes ago, Frigate007 said:

Don't have either but have faced both on opposing side several times when bottom tier in my Fiji. Before I did I had watched several videos of Friesland seemingly able to kraken at will. So first time I was like oh no, not a Friesland. Thankfully they were not a problem probably because the users had just got them and had not figured them out. In one battle I sank one and a Belfast. 0n the other hand I have been sunk more times than I can count by a Udaloi. They are the ban of my existence along with a well played lightning among others. Maybe in 6 months when users get proficient I will fear them, but for now I just think of them as targets.

I thought about getting one for future use, but by the time I decided to pull the trigger they were no longer for sale. They do look like the could have a huge fun factor. And for me that's what this game is all about.

Friesland isn't the be-all, end-all of DD gunnery... I really want one, but I'm not expecting something hugely OP, either, because in one of my first matches against one, I sank one in a gunfight. Using Vauquelin.

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13 minutes ago, RainbowFartingUnicorn said:

Friesland isn't the be-all, end-all of DD gunnery... I really want one, but I'm not expecting something hugely OP, either, because in one of my first matches against one, I sank one in a gunfight. Using Vauquelin.

I'm beginning to think their are no OP ships, just OP players. I get in a ship many consider OP like the Exeter and the results are sure not OP in most cases unless I'm top tier. Yet I see people in ships that are universally slammed for being terrible and they do 150k damage and sink a bunch of ships. While some ships are better than others, it really boils down to player skill, your team mates and mm.

Edited by Frigate007
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