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LunchCutter

5 blowouts in a row? MM broken?

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Had the amusement of watching 5 games in a row where my team was completely annihilated for only 1 kill (3 games it was zero). Played about 12 games today and not 1 was close. Makes for a very frustrating and boring game.

 Even the last game, after 4 awful 1 sided messes in a row I decided to not attack in my Fletcher, I just sat back and watched my team melt. Within 5m (2 Brothers) we had lost half our ships for no enemy. All our BB's were perfectly sideon to the enemy BB's who were correctly angled, taking citadel hit after citadel hit.. Meanwhile 2 division DD's in the team rush the middle, get spotted by a plane and die very quickly..

 I didn't even bother playing, completely unwinnable game, I was the only ship left at the halfway mark and just led the enemy team on a scenic tour of the map. Game finally finished when they took our cap.

 I reviewed our teams stats afterwards, the 2 suicidal DD's both had 1000+ games, 44% WR's and 600 points per game, our top Yamato (who died first after going sideon and stopping near a enemy DD smoke field) had 2000 games and 41%WR. Nearly the entire team was sub 50% performance where as some of the enemy team were pushing 60%. I hate stats but it was interesting to see how mismatched and badly thrown together the 2 teams were (not really a random game). Also the enemy team had over half the side in divisions while my team just had the 2 useless DD's. One of those games that's technically over before it begins. 

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working as intended comrade.  sometime you roll over and some times  game rolls over you.  tovarisch!

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12 minutes ago, LunchCutter said:

Had the amusement of watching 5 games in a row where my team was completely annihilated for only 1 kill (3 games it was zero). Played about 12 games today and not 1 was close. Makes for a very frustrating and boring game.

 Even the last game, after 4 awful 1 sided messes in a row I decided to not attack in my Fletcher, I just sat back and watched my team melt. Within 5m (2 Brothers) we had lost half our ships for no enemy. All our BB's were perfectly sideon to the enemy BB's who were correctly angled, taking citadel hit after citadel hit.. Meanwhile 2 division DD's in the team rush the middle, get spotted by a plane and die very quickly..

 I didn't even bother playing, completely unwinnable game, I was the only ship left at the halfway mark and just led the enemy team on a scenic tour of the map. Game finally finished when they took our cap.

 I reviewed our teams stats afterwards, the 2 suicidal DD's both had 1000+ games, 44% WR's and 600 points per game, our top Yamato (who died first after going sideon and stopping near a enemy DD smoke field) had 2000 games and 41%WR. Nearly the entire team was sub 50% performance where as some of the enemy team were pushing 60%. I hate stats but it was interesting to see how mismatched and badly thrown together the 2 teams were (not really a random game). Also the enemy team had over half the side in divisions while my team just had the 2 useless DD's. One of those games that's technically over before it begins. 

The last two days have been absolute hell for me. On Monday my stats said I had a one day run with 65% win rate. Today it was a 44%  or less.

The games were absolutely one sided. In one game we were done 6 ships to their 1 in 5 minutes. In the end the battle lasted about 10 minutes with 3 enemies down to our 12 and all 3 caps in their possession the entirety of the game. That's not fun or engaging.

My PR scores were all good at least in damage and good or less than good in experience but my WR was garbage.

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Just now, LunchCutter said:

Had the amusement of watching 5 games in a row where my team was completely annihilated for only 1 kill (3 games it was zero). Played about 12 games today and not 1 was close. Makes for a very frustrating and boring game.

 Even the last game, after 4 awful 1 sided messes in a row I decided to not attack in my Fletcher, I just sat back and watched my team melt. Within 5m (2 Brothers) we had lost half our ships for no enemy. All our BB's were perfectly sideon to the enemy BB's who were correctly angled, taking citadel hit after citadel hit.. Meanwhile 2 division DD's in the team rush the middle, get spotted by a plane and die very quickly..

 I didn't even bother playing, completely unwinnable game, I was the only ship left at the halfway mark and just led the enemy team on a scenic tour of the map. Game finally finished when they took our cap.

 I reviewed our teams stats afterwards, the 2 suicidal DD's both had 1000+ games, 44% WR's and 600 points per game, our top Yamato (who died first after going sideon and stopping near a enemy DD smoke field) had 2000 games and 41%WR. Nearly the entire team was sub 50% performance where as some of the enemy team were pushing 60%. I hate stats but it was interesting to see how mismatched and badly thrown together the 2 teams were (not really a random game). Also the enemy team had over half the side in divisions while my team just had the 2 useless DD's. One of those games that's technically over before it begins. 

Statistically insignificant sample size.  Impossible to draw any conclusions.

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I routinely have days with 8+ blowouts in a row. They always happen the next time I login after a great win streak. In fact it's happened 100% of the time over the past two years,  so much so that I expect it and it never fails to happen. For those who don't believe there's an algorithm at work you must also believe your odds in Las Vegas are 50/50 lol.

Edited by STINKWEED_
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45 minutes ago, LunchCutter said:

Had the amusement of watching 5 games in a row where my team was completely annihilated for only 1 kill (3 games it was zero). Played about 12 games today and not 1 was close. Makes for a very frustrating and boring game.

 Even the last game, after 4 awful 1 sided messes in a row I decided to not attack in my Fletcher, I just sat back and watched my team melt. Within 5m (2 Brothers) we had lost half our ships for no enemy. All our BB's were perfectly sideon to the enemy BB's who were correctly angled, taking citadel hit after citadel hit.. Meanwhile 2 division DD's in the team rush the middle, get spotted by a plane and die very quickly..

 I didn't even bother playing, completely unwinnable game, I was the only ship left at the halfway mark and just led the enemy team on a scenic tour of the map. Game finally finished when they took our cap.

 I reviewed our teams stats afterwards, the 2 suicidal DD's both had 1000+ games, 44% WR's and 600 points per game, our top Yamato (who died first after going sideon and stopping near a enemy DD smoke field) had 2000 games and 41%WR. Nearly the entire team was sub 50% performance where as some of the enemy team were pushing 60%. I hate stats but it was interesting to see how mismatched and badly thrown together the 2 teams were (not really a random game). Also the enemy team had over half the side in divisions while my team just had the 2 useless DD's. One of those games that's technically over before it begins. 

Its not MM,

Its the Over powered/over capable ships and the humans who sail them.... Especially at high tiers.

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Blowouts are not caused by a difference in player skill, but rather as an artifact of team-based PVP matchmaking without respawns.  There is literally nothing Matchmaking could do to mitigate them.

Edited by LittleWhiteMouse
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1 hour ago, LunchCutter said:

our top Yamato (who died first after going sideon and stopping near a enemy DD smoke field) 

There could be many reasons as to why such top tier player went broadside.  But when you do witness such moves, specially at tier 10 ships; you do wonder.  Have these players ever learned the game properly, or have they been somehow carried by others to top tier ships.

 

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3 more blowouts.. lol least my team sunk 2 boats last game... Watching the Bismarck and the Yamato push a cap with no support and dying under a wave of torpedoes really makes me think these guys are bots, surely no one gets to that tier with such a small brain?

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There's no line of code that can predict where we will position our ships which is what usually starts the down fall. All it takes is that one guy getting caught out by the enemy at the start and there it begins. The only thing they can do is line up some kind of MM that looks at W/R and even then that won't help someone making an error and causing a single ship loss that quickly goes down hill.

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1 hour ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Blowouts are not caused by a difference in player skill, but rather as an artifact of team-based PVP matchmaking without respawns.  There is literally nothing Matchmaking could do to mitigate them.

I'm sorry, Mouse, but I find it VERY hard to believe that significant differences in player skill have no impact on blowouts, to the point that your assertion is laughable to me.  Mind you, there are times when the two teams look reasonably even and there are still blowouts.  But I also think that team skill differences can add significantly to the likelihood of blowouts.  

Blowouts occur due to the snowball effect.  But the snowball effect does not occur in isolation.  Ships have to die to create and fuel the snowball effect.  And ships die often due to the bad decisions of their players, and bad players make bad decisions more often than good players do.  And the more bad and extremely bad players on one team vs the other team means that there will likely be an imbalance in the number of bad decisions being made by one team over the other.  And that should lead to one team losing ships more quickly than the other, all other things being equal.

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4 minutes ago, xalmgrey said:

There's no line of code that can predict where we will position our ships which is what usually starts the down fall. All it takes is that one guy getting caught out by the enemy at the start and there it begins. The only thing they can do is line up some kind of MM that looks at W/R and even then that won't help someone making an error and causing a single ship loss that quickly goes down hill.

SBMM can't stop massacres from occurring.  All it could do is reduce their likelihood.

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1 minute ago, Crucis said:

SBMM can't stop massacres from occurring.  All it could do is reduce their likelihood.

Pretty much. Even in a skilled group on both sides it just takes one mistake but those matches usually last forever and are at TX and people if i remember right hate those matches because it takes a long time but then hate the matches that are blow outs so...

:fish_palm:

 

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14 hours ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Blowouts are not caused by a difference in player skill, but rather as an artifact of team-based PVP matchmaking without respawns.  There is literally nothing Matchmaking could do to mitigate them.

Aaaand here we go again.

Mention blowouts and MM in the same sentence and it's anyone's fault except the MM.

-It's statistics.

-It's the lack of respawns.

-It's player skill.

-It's the snowball effect.

-It's the color of your shirt or what you had for breakfast. (Why not? Makes as much sense as the other excuses.)

-It's anything other than the repeating pattern of wins/losses that every player of this game has had to experience.

I had one such match today during one of those, what I call, "designated losing streaks", where every single one of the 38 hits I had from my Normandie caused 950 damage. It did not matter if HE or AP, If I hit a DD or a cruiser or a BB, it was clear that I was not going to win the match no matter what I tried to do. No level of unicum performance would have saved that team from losing. We were down 5 ships in the first 4 minutes and due to those 'artifacts of no respawns', I'll be darned if we only managed to sink one red ship before the match ended. That RNG no respawns sure seem to not work in your favor at times, dunnit?

Honestly, you're better off not saying anything at all than to defend MM. We all know the deal.

proof.jpg

Edited by Rabbitt81
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2 hours ago, STINKWEED_ said:

I routinely have days with 8+ blowouts in a row. They always happen the next time I login after a great win streak. In fact it's happened 100% of the time over the past two years,  so much so that I expect it and it never fails to happen. For those who don't believe there's an algorithm at work you must also believe your odds in Las Vegas are 50/50 lol.

I went from a low 70 percent win rate to a 23 percent in the matter of two days.  Mostly tier 10 games.  

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44 minutes ago, Crucis said:

I'm sorry, Mouse, but I find it VERY hard to believe that significant differences in player skill have no impact on blowouts, to the point that your assertion is laughable to me

Of course it is.  You're protecting your ego.

Go play co-op.  Record the number of blow outs.  If skill was indeed a factor then all human teams should 7 - 0  or 7 - 1 the bots almost every single time.
But they don't.  In fact, you get some pretty close matches fairly regularly.
In fact, one sided blowouts aren't even close to the norm.

The difference in skill is a pretty good indicator of which side will win.  The difference in skill isn't a determinant in the quality of said win.  If it was, blow-outs wouldn't occur in high-skill, competitive matches like King of the Sea.  But they do.  Regularly.  As regularly as you'll see in Randoms or Co-op. 

Edited by LittleWhiteMouse
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1 hour ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

...blow-outs wouldn't occur in high-skill, competitive matches like King of the Sea.  But they do.  Regularly.

I never watched them so I wasn't aware of that...

Well...I feel a lot better about all the blowouts I've been a victim to (& all the ones I've been a contributing factor in causing the reds to be victims of).

Thanx.

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2 hours ago, LunchCutter said:

3 more blowouts.. lol least my team sunk 2 boats last game... Watching the Bismarck and the Yamato push a cap with no support and dying under a wave of torpedoes really makes me think these guys are bots, surely no one gets to that tier with such a small brain?

LOL. Loaded into a match the other day with my man @ClassicLiband were flabbergasted to learn that our T8 CV had 900 -- not a typo, 900 -- average damage over 3 games of play. He had never played any other CV in Random or Coop, and never played his CV in coop. Apparently he FXPed directly to a T8 CV, and then took it directly to Randoms. He had 2000 games under his belt, too, so he had to know how much he sucked.

It's not just stupidity -- like many people I failed my way to T10 before I learned how to play a little. That's common and somewhat excusable. Many people are unaware of how much they suck. It's incredible selfishness and complete disregard for others that explains so many players' inability to play.

What the game needs is not a better MM, but a way to prevent selfish jerks from doing what that CV driver did. Classiclib suggested to me later in chat that some kind of mission/campaign style set-up under which you had to meet certain experience milestones should be necessary for players to graduate to higher tiers or to get out of coop, where they should be sent when they suck after twenty games at the next tier. Beyond some milestone of a couple thousand games, that would not be necessary.

Such a system would prevent the selfish idiots like the Massachusetts I saw the other day with a 22% win rate, whose most played ships were all T3s. Or the Rangers I constantly encounter, who have less than 300 games under their belts but are in a T8 match.

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2 hours ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:


Go play co-op. 

Coop IS almost always blowouts though, at least in my experience.

In any case blowouts are super common in high tier games and always will be with the level of offense high tier ships get in comparison to the level of defense they have. 

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After three blow outs in a row I stop, I then go play "For Honor" and take my frustration out on on the red team.  :Smile_honoring:

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It’s been a rough road out there for me too but it’s come in the wake of a solid win streak. I knew it was coming- just didn’t know when.

Edited by _ENO_

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Hate to tell you but MM does not order up or prevent "blowouts".  I would bet a couple of those games were no twhat I would call a blowout. 

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I used to fight thru loss streaks. I'm so fed up with steam rolls and 6 minute annihilations I've finally adopted the "3-4 losses and done for day" mantra long preached by many forum frequenters.

I'd rather log out of this game log in to another and take my chances taking an AWP to the face by a pogo sticking counter terrorist. At least there's some balance.

Edited by thebigblue
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