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RosaStark

Second BB line to go for?

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Hey all, I'm just looking for some advice cause what I've tried and what I've been seeing is really conflicting and I was hoping some more experienced captains could give a girl a hand.

I'm currently going through the IJN BB line and loving it, slowly making progress towards the Yamato. However, I really have been wanting a secondary line of BBs to go through that's a bit more up close and personal. I'm debating between Germans, Russians, and French based off what I've heard and tried. I've tried Germans and Russians to tier V, and French to tier IV at the moment, and I'm really trying not to waste time/resources going out and buying ships like I've been doing. My impressions of each line are as follows:

Germans: Inaccurate guns with somewhat underwhelming firepower but fast reload, great secondaries, really good up close. However it really seems damn near impossible to hit anything that isn't within 10km. That being said, if you can get close without getting blown up or having 12 fires on your way there, I do admit the ships are deadly.

Russians: Accurate guns with a lot of punch, really strong armour with an angle, gets absolutely destroyed if you show your broadside (more than anything else I've done), able to dish out tons of damage very securely if you can get in without getting sniped at from long range. Great AA too. You really have to be confident in your positioning because turning around to retreat gives a nice tasty broadside for people to exploit.

French: Crap guns. I feel like I'm shooting outlines of ships even if my aiming is good, they don't seem to do much damage either, coupled with slow traverse. Handles like a pig and is incredibly slow. I've heard so much good about this line but can't seem to find any of it.

So I realise this experience is only through tier V at the most but I feel like it's easy to get to tier V without too much commitment before starting to sink resources in. That's my personal experience with the nations BB lines. I have heard that the French get quite good at tier 6 and then better each tier after, but I honestly don't know that I want to sink the resources in and have the same thing happening for quite awhile. The Russians seem about accurate to what I've heard, and the Germans honestly seem quite a bit underwhelming, but look like things might get better at tier VI when they finally ditch the 305s. I initially was planning on doing the German line but honestly the performance so far has been less than what I expected. How much better can I expect each of the lines to get going through them, and which of them are worth the time and resource investment?

Thanks all in advance <3

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1 minute ago, AvengerBak said:

French line gets good at T6, I love the French line personally and its quite a lot of fun. 

That's what I've heard that it gets better at T6, but like... How so? Is it just the fact you have quad turrets or is there multiple things?

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Russian guns are accurate under 14km. Very tanky.

French guns are ok at t8 & 9, republique is very accurate.  Great secondary ships.

I would go French, unless your into rank/clan battles then the RU are hard to kill.

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2 minutes ago, dEsTurbed1 said:

Russian guns are accurate under 14km. Very tanky.

French guns are ok at t8 & 9, republique is very accurate.  Great secondary ships.

I would go French, unless your into rank/clan battles then the RU are hard to kill.

So secondaries are a viable build on them? I had read that they were pretty mediocre and 100% not meta. Not like I'm trying to be top tier goddess of BBs, but I wanna at least be viable. Is the French armour enough to sustain shots while getting in close enough to make use of these secondaries? It seems to get punched through pretty easily at the moment for me. Again, only with tier IV experience but that's why I'm asking ^^"

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yup agreeing with the others with French and RU BBs, french BBs are fun from t6 and onward t8 they become very good.

RU BBs I think Izmail at t6 is the only stinker in the line but the guns are still accurate at mid-close range but they are in a weird awkward set up with very slow traverse speed.

both of these lines can be your 2nd and 3rd BB line to grind up.

Im currently regrinding the RU BB line for research points.

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1 minute ago, Rolkatsuki said:

RU BBs I think Izmail at t6 is the only stinker

Honestly I believe it. I really like my Pyotr right now, and it feels like having only one bow turret and three you have to angle to get on target would just be bleh. The Pyotr is like... having two guns on target and easily swinging the other two around when you can is great. I might keep here for a little while and use it as a FXP farmer.

So French then eh? Thanks for the input ^_^

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The purple tag suggests you can easily take on the Russians. They are the competetive meta and are great in randoms too. Probably best to not go secondaries on them, but they still operate in the same up close engagements.

 

Yes French CAN be secondary ships, but they require IFHE to pen most stuff, which is far too heavy an investment imo. Best bet is to throw out their range and go for fires. 

 

Germany is probably way below your skill floor. They give up a lot of skill ceiling to be as forgiving as they are

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30 minutes ago, AvengerBak said:

French line gets good at T6, I love the French line personally and its quite a lot of fun. 

This.

Secondary build Normandie taught me more about brawling than Bis-ko ever dreamed of doing.

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9 minutes ago, Aegis381 said:

So French then eh? Thanks for the input ^_^

yeah getting the Republique is a blessing with the legendary upgrade, with the right setup you can do 16k damage every 18 seconds. /^.\\

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12 minutes ago, Aegis381 said:

So secondaries are a viable build on them? I had read that they were pretty mediocre and 100% not meta. Not like I'm trying to be top tier goddess of BBs, but I wanna at least be viable. Is the French armour enough to sustain shots while getting in close enough to make use of these secondaries? It seems to get punched through pretty easily at the moment for me. Again, only with tier IV experience but that's why I'm asking ^^"

Richie at tier 8: strong forward facing guns. Scary secondaries. 

Alsace at tier 9: nerfed sigma on main battery due to over-perfoming, but still very good. A secondary monster with nice armor.

Republique at tier 10: can snipe at long ranges. Dont show broadsides at ranges. Has the secondaries and speed to push in mid to late game.

.....

I am an overly aggressive player in my French BB at tier 9 & 10. I do not use Manual secondaries.  I use both dam con modoules and accuracy for main battery modoule. Bft for AA and secondaries ROF. AFt for secondaries range. Fire prevention to help with tank build.

Having speed boost allows you to push flanks or reposition as needed.

NOTE: with a Smolensk in battle you have to be very careful now.

.....

 

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1 hour ago, Aegis381 said:

Hey all, I'm just looking for some advice cause what I've tried and what I've been seeing is really conflicting and I was hoping some more experienced captains could give a girl a hand.

I'm currently going through the IJN BB line and loving it, slowly making progress towards the Yamato. However, I really have been wanting a secondary line of BBs to go through that's a bit more up close and personal. I'm debating between Germans, Russians, and French based off what I've heard and tried. I've tried Germans and Russians to tier V, and French to tier IV at the moment, and I'm really trying not to waste time/resources going out and buying ships like I've been doing. My impressions of each line are as follows:

Germans: Inaccurate guns with somewhat underwhelming firepower but fast reload, great secondaries, really good up close. However it really seems damn near impossible to hit anything that isn't within 10km. That being said, if you can get close without getting blown up or having 12 fires on your way there, I do admit the ships are deadly.

Russians: Accurate guns with a lot of punch, really strong armour with an angle, gets absolutely destroyed if you show your broadside (more than anything else I've done), able to dish out tons of damage very securely if you can get in without getting sniped at from long range. Great AA too. You really have to be confident in your positioning because turning around to retreat gives a nice tasty broadside for people to exploit.

French: Crap guns. I feel like I'm shooting outlines of ships even if my aiming is good, they don't seem to do much damage either, coupled with slow traverse. Handles like a pig and is incredibly slow. I've heard so much good about this line but can't seem to find any of it.

So I realise this experience is only through tier V at the most but I feel like it's easy to get to tier V without too much commitment before starting to sink resources in. That's my personal experience with the nations BB lines. I have heard that the French get quite good at tier 6 and then better each tier after, but I honestly don't know that I want to sink the resources in and have the same thing happening for quite awhile. The Russians seem about accurate to what I've heard, and the Germans honestly seem quite a bit underwhelming, but look like things might get better at tier VI when they finally ditch the 305s. I initially was planning on doing the German line but honestly the performance so far has been less than what I expected. How much better can I expect each of the lines to get going through them, and which of them are worth the time and resource investment?

Thanks all in advance <3

You have the general idea of what the lines do.

 

Some peculiarities of the FR BB Line, since I've spent more recent time in them than the others you listed.

The FR BB Line gets better in Tier VI. 

Turret traverse with Bretagne in Tier V is the worst for the Line, it gets better later once you're past her.

FR 380mm has outstanding AP penetration capabilities, rivaling even some 16" guns.  However, they do get bounced by certain 27mm bow on Cruisers, which can be highly annoying.  Get used to this, as the FR BB Line features 380mm guns as late as Tier IX in the tech tree.  But Alsace at least gets 12 guns for Tier IX instead of the typical 9 for many BBs this tier.

Tech Tree FR BB Secondaries only become truly viable threats in Tier IX-X.  Don't be fooled with Richelieu secondaries reaching out like Bismarck.  Richy's secondaries are actually quite bad in gun position, ROF, volume of fire, terrible HE pen.

Tier IX-X, FR BBs are flexible.  You can either spec them for Main Battery - Survival Build, or do Secondary Spec.  Both are valid choices.

Engine Boost access is a feature from Tier VIII-X.

 

Also, regarding Secondaries for IX Alsace / Jean Bart, is that they rely heavily on low pen 100mm guns.  Without IFHE, they cannot pen 19mm superstructure of High Tier BBs and High Tier DD hulls.  They can be great fire starters, but are you going to rely on fires to wear down a DD doing a torpedo attack against you?  You end up relying too much on Fires.  However, with IFHE Secondaries Build, Alsace is a Secondaries Monster.  Puts people on fire and the hits rack up.

 

Here's a trick though if you do Secondary Spec... Get in Secondaries range, but don't get in Knife Fighting ranges.  The reason is you are using the AI's accuracy in your favor to get HE Pens.  At range, say 8km+, your secondary shells arc up and then down, hitting the superstructure, deck of a BB, Cruiser, etc.  But if you get in knife fighting ranges, the AI is now more accurate and aims and hits the section where the AI always aims for... Center mass, waterline.  No Secondary Guns are going to HE Pen another Battleship at the waterline.

 

Republique at Tier X, her Secondaries are no longer 100mm... They are 127mm.  These are fantastic secondaries.  Range better than GK if spec'ed for it.  But the real killer is the fantastic 9% Fire Chance of the 127mm guns.  You don't need IFHE on her for Secondaries as you naturally pen 19mm already.  GK's 128mm secondaries have fantastic pen of 31mm built in, but the fire chance is only at 5%.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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No love for the Monty? USN BBs are my go to line for sure, close range, long range, mid range, doesn't matter you get american piercing shells...

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12 minutes ago, Sethanas said:

No love for the Monty? USN BBs are my go to line for sure, close range, long range, mid range, doesn't matter you get american piercing shells...

USN BBs weren't what the OP asked for.

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57 minutes ago, _BBaby said:

Germany is probably way below your skill floor.

Honestly I'm flattered ^_^ I'm not a professional but I like to think I at least know my way around the game.

 

49 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Tier IX-X, FR BBs are flexible.  You can either spec them for Main Battery - Survival Build, or do Secondary Spec.  Both are valid choices.

So would you personally recommend taking my commander in a more survival build and then just grabbing BFT and AFT, or do you think it's worth to go MFC early on and having the investment pay off towards IX-X?

 

 

31 minutes ago, Sethanas said:

No love for the Monty?

No hate for it, I just was between these three lines of BBs ^_^

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  I actually like Courbet...  Then again, I'm kind of a geek for 12" armed ships, lol.  (South Carolina; Wyoming; and Alaska are other favorites)

  To answer your question, I think what makes the tier 6 and 7 French BB's so popular (and fun) is their combination of speed, small size/agility, decent protection; and firepower.   Yes,  you won't get many dev strikes vs other battleships with the 13" guns- but cruisers just MELT.   Lyon, especially, with that 16 gun broadside, is also pretty effective at defending itself vs DD's.   Both ships get lots and lots of 5" secondaries.

Normandie's major flaw is AA that makes Arizona look good.   The "Cruise Ship" permanent camo I have for it is mostly an adequate substitute.  (seriously, it's one of the nicest they've done)

Lyon's AA is MUCH better, and from there on, they don't lack for AA power.

Alsace is quite possibly my favorite BB in the game.   Even without IFHE- having both sides lined with 100mm machine guns means LOTS of bonus fire damage- and those secondary hit missions that pop up from time to time?  Easy peasy, lol.   They do a real number on DD's as well.  The accuracy nerf was annoying, but you still have 12 guns, which work just fine.   Needless to say- that many 100mm dp guns makes for rather good AA.

  With Republique, you get your 5" secondaries back;  tougher armor; accuracy; AND- finally- big guns.    Repub does an astonishing amount of damage in a brawl, and it takes a lot of punishment as well.   Engaging- and actually hitting things- all the way across the map is quite entertaining as well.

  The Premium Gascogne is essentially Repub's mini me.  Also a fun little ship.

  For whatever reason, I just find them FUN to play.  Which often translates into very good performance.

I'm just starting the Russian BB's- and got all the early release ones.  The low tiers are fun.  Not much playtime in the higher ones, yet.   They're tough- and they hit hard. (and fairly often)   To me, they just lack the fun factor of the French or US battleships.

  I'm an aggressive BB captain.  I have little stomach- or patience- for camping and sniping.   Brawling is just too fun!

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1 hour ago, Aegis381 said:

So would you personally recommend taking my commander in a more survival build and then just grabbing BFT and AFT, or do you think it's worth to go MFC early on and having the investment pay off towards IX-X?
 

If we're talking taking that same FR Captain down the BB line?

It's going to be kind of bumpy.  Both Survival and Secondary Builds tend to be pretty exclusive to each other IMO, because they're demanding on points, even if you drop any notion of CE altogether.  They're both pretty much "Go all in" kind of builds.  AFT + Manual Secondaries is a significant investment already. IFHE Secondaries pretty much excludes Survival Build altogether.

If you're taking BOS & FP from Survival, you can't cram in BFT, AFT, Manual Secondaries.  In the Fitting Tool, I can cram in 2 out of 3 of those Secondary skills even with BOS & FP there, even if I ignore CE.

The best compromise I could come up with is:

PT

AR

BOS

FP

That's for the first 10pts.  As you grind down, the best I could cram in for the remaining 9pts is to add:

PM (Tier 1) and Manual Secondaries + AFT (Tier 4).  I can't cram in BFT.

 

Personally, I've never grinded down with a hybrid build like that, as I have either gone all-in Survival or Secondary or AA Spec (Pre-Rebork days) with my BBs.  But it may work if you're patient for a payoff at the end with Alsace and Republique.  I can't give a 100%, positive endorsement on that route, that style of hybrid survival - secondary build because I have not done it myself.

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4 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

If we're talking taking that same FR Captain down the BB line?

Yeah, the idea being taking the same captain down the line, so with the overall goal being to build for the Republique I'm assuming you'd recommend going secondaries and just waiting for the payoff with Alsace and Republique?

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2 hours ago, Aegis381 said:

Yeah, the idea being taking the same captain down the line, so with the overall goal being to build for the Republique I'm assuming you'd recommend going secondaries and just waiting for the payoff with Alsace and Republique?

As I said, it sounds like it has merit, but again, I've never done a hybrid build like that going down a Line, that's why I wasn't 100% behind it, since I never did it myself.  It sounds doable though, especially if you are in no rush to get to Tier IX and pile up the XPs on the captain to make it happen.

 

Some side comments to prep you for what's to come.

Spoiler

 

At 411 battles, IMO, don't rush down your progression, don't be too eager in spending your FreeXP to speed it up.  I know it's tempting to, I remember how it was when new.  My goal when I was new was to get Iowa and I sped things along quicker than I should have.  By the time I got to Tier IX my captain wasn't high enough and I didn't spend enough time through the later tiers getting used to combat.

 

Take your time, grind out your captain as you do your progression, and get used to the flow of combat.  The "feel" of combat takes several jumps through the tiers.

Tiers

I-II

III-IV

V-VII

VIII-IX

X

There's a mistake players get thinking it gets easier as you go higher in the tiers, as you get stronger ships.  It doesn't.  It gets harder and harder.  For example, it's perfectly natural for guys' Tier X ships to suck real bad in stats when they first get to that tier.  Being in High Tier games (VIII-X) is very unforgiving.  The more time you spent working on your Tier VII (because there you get into Tier VIII / IX games still), VIII ships without speeding it up, you'll acclimate yourself to High Tiers.  Tier IX prepares you to play Tier X BBs because IX-X BBs lose the agility of prior tiers of Battleships.  You make a mistake in movement as a Tier IX-X BB, there's really no undoing it with a quick 180 degree turn, not like a Tier VII-VIII BB could.  It doesn't happen that quickly and everyone will punish you for the mistake. 

 

Ranged Lethality is why it gets harder as you progress up the tiers.  At mid tiers, there are lots of BBs that struggle at 14, 15km gun ranges.  Many Cruisers can't even reach 16km.  Several USN BBs BARELY clear 16km gun range.  Lots of BB accuracy there is questionable.  In High Tier games?  Completely different.  BBs get good to outstanding range, some can be quite scary in their accuracy, especially with a good player at the helm.  The Cruisers can DPM at range.  So, in mid tier you make a mistake at 15km and can recover easily from it as your opponents' ships struggle to engage you.  In High Tier, making a mistake at 15km?  You may as well be sitting stationary and broadside at 10km.  You will be mercilessly hammered for being out of position, for getting into cross-fire / focus fire spots with people reliably hitting you at 16km, 17km, 18km, etc.  Be out of position in a High Tier game, your Priority Target counter EASILY skyrockets to 5, 6, whatever, and all those dudes will hit you.

 

And I haven't even gotten into what the later DDs and CVs can do to you :Smile_trollface:

 

A personal mistake of mine was when I worked on IJN BBs as my 2nd line, the goal to get Yamato.  I ground my way legitimately to Tier VIII Amagi.  I continued on her but then I got tired of the grind and FreeXPd the rest, completely skipping IX Izumo and straight into X Yamato.  I didn't learn how to "tier IX battleship" like I should because I didn't spend real time there.  The result was me being a total embarrassment as a Yamato player.  It took me around 120 or 130 Random Battles in Yamato to finally understand how to Tier X Battleship, but by then my Yamato stats were beyond salvaging.  However, I took that harsh schooling in Yamato and applied it to my later BB play.  But you don't have to go through that stupidity like I did.  Take your time and get used to High Tier combat and you'll be fine.

 

 

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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8 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Some side comments to prep you for what's to come.

I greatly appreciate all that. I'm on the Nagato right now and its definitely a system shock getting thrown into VIII/IX games. On one hand, people actually communicate and work together with target prioritisation. On the other hand, as I learned very harshly going against a Soyuz that a single barrage if you're not angled properly can straight up 100-0 you. That being said, I've always been a lot more conservative playing in the IJN line so I think that'll fit in nicely. I honestly enjoy the Nagato so I'm not in any rush ^_^

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Just now, Aegis381 said:

I greatly appreciate all that. I'm on the Nagato right now and its definitely a system shock getting thrown into VIII/IX games. On one hand, people actually communicate and work together with target prioritisation. On the other hand, as I learned very harshly going against a Soyuz that a single barrage if you're not angled properly can straight up 100-0 you. That being said, I've always been a lot more conservative playing in the IJN line so I think that'll fit in nicely. I honestly enjoy the Nagato so I'm not in any rush ^_^

Yeah, when you're in your Fuso, Nagato dealing with Tier V-VII games, it's fine.  But when you're that Fuso in a Tier VIII game, or a Nagato in a Tier VIII-IX game, it gets pretty nuts.  I mean, as a Tier VII, your Nagato can encounter Jean Bart, and MUSASHI.  And that's just the BB competition.

 

The beauty of the IJN BB Line is you have no pressing need to get super close.  If you get used to high tier combat as a Tier VII, then you'll love a full upgraded Amagi from Tier VIII.

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French BB guns are weak until T8, then they become ridiculous with high velocity, highest penetration in the game for their caliber, and above average accuracy. The Richelieu is a bit dodgy with how high it's penetration is as it will overpenetrate most T8 cruiser citadels up close but it also does a good job of citadeling Bismarcks and other French BBs. The 32mm armour will make you feel like a cruiser in terms of survivability against most HE and God help you if you run into a Harugumo. You don't want to take fire from cruisers in this ship unless it's the piddly guns of the Smolensk. Note that unlike the French cruisers for whatever reason, the spaced armour does absorb all HE shells. I would say to go for a secondary focused build since taking fires is the least of your concern from HE and this buffs your already top tier AA.

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26 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Yeah, when you're in your Fuso, Nagato dealing with Tier V-VII games, it's fine.  But when you're that Fuso in a Tier VIII game, or a Nagato in a Tier VIII-IX game, it gets pretty nuts.  I mean, as a Tier VII, your Nagato can encounter Jean Bart, and MUSASHI.  And that's just the BB competition.

 

The beauty of the IJN BB Line is you have no pressing need to get super close.  If you get used to high tier combat as a Tier VII, then you'll love a full upgraded Amagi from Tier VIII.

Yeah, I watched Notser's stuff on the IJN line and his thoughts were that the Amagi is just a better Nagato lol. So I'm lookin forward to getting to that. And hoo boy let me tell you, the last like ten Fuso games I had I got shoved into entirely tier VIII games and it was not a good time. My plan has honestly been get to tier VII and then slow my roll down quite a bit to acclimate to the higher tiers, hence wanting to give another line a try for if I feel like taking things easier for a bit. 

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29 minutes ago, Aegis381 said:

Yeah, I watched Notser's stuff on the IJN line and his thoughts were that the Amagi is just a better Nagato lol. So I'm lookin forward to getting to that. And hoo boy let me tell you, the last like ten Fuso games I had I got shoved into entirely tier VIII games and it was not a good time. My plan has honestly been get to tier VII and then slow my roll down quite a bit to acclimate to the higher tiers, hence wanting to give another line a try for if I feel like taking things easier for a bit. 

Fusou uptiers just fine due to its heavy armour and good HE performance with how many guns it has. It can stand toe to toe with a lot of BBs just flinging HE which works well with the lack of accuracy that the ship has. On top of that it is also the BB with highest base range in the game and IJN guns are known for their great performance at long range. The Fusou is still my most favourite tech tree BB due to these strengths.

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Having fun with the Russian line using Kuznetsov. He's currently at 19pts and his hidden skills come in handy in many matches. He's in the SS right now and about to go back to T8 for sprint. After that he's into the Kremlin which is waiting for him. 

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