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Hulks

Goodbye Shima, upgrading to Yugumo!

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Hi all,

I'm very new to the Shima, and I've worked up to this ship the hard way. I always figured as the pinnacle of the IJN DD line this ship would be great. But after playing for a while, I really find it worse than the Yugumo, which I had great success in. I've tried all the three torp options but results have been very hit and miss.  Wondering if anyone can relate or has also returned to tier 9  :)

 

Edited by Hulks

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I love the yugimo but the no smoke variant, the shima is good in its own right though, the 12 km torps on the shima for me are the best option.

I hear what your saying though, I would rather play the yugio that my shim, mainly cause of the trb and its concealment, it has decent guns and is fast enough, I would suggest getting a speed module for it so you can have 3 min of speed boost if you haven't already, plus you can be top tier sometimes which is nice from time to time.

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16 minutes ago, Hulks said:

Hi all,

I'm very new to the Shima, and I've worked up to this ship the hard way. I always figured as the pinnacle of the Jap DD line this ship would be great. But after playing for a while, I really find it worse than the Yugumo, which I had great success in. I've tried all the three torp options but results have been very hit and miss.  Wondering if anyone can relate or has also returned to tier 9  :)

 

 

Huh I really disliked the Yugumo in the end and love the Shima.  I even run the Legendary module. However thinking of stepping away from that as it gets brutal with CVs around.  My biggest tip on running shima is to use the 12 KM torps.  The 8KM were cool and are deadly when there wasn't as much radar.  The 20km torps are a gimmick and that occasional extra torp hit from the range isn't worth it.       Shima was also the boat that got the me 65k avg dmg over 100 games DD  badge.  Now she is slowly and clearly being powercrept by all the in game DD gunboats. 

 

The strengths of the Shima: 

1. Its a slim boat. 

2. 2 rear turrets. 

3. 3 torps launchers of 5 torps each. ( rather then the 4 torp launcher on Yugumo) 

4. Fast boat. 

5. Great Concealment.

6. Fastest shell velocity of all T10 DDs. 

 

Really it only has 1 big weakness and that is Carriers. 

One of the Tactics I used for a long time  as I learned the boat is to save the third launcher. Many captains will still be caught off guard by the third set coming later.  Also with some practice you can launch the first 2 sets to force the enemy to change course then launch the third set at the predicted new course. 

 

Its strongest plays: 

- Capping by backing into caps on open sides with no islands. 

- Kiting away in gun battle.

- Of course torpedo ambushes.  

- Flanking moves. 

- Pushing radar cruisers out of position.  

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Hulks said:

Pls explain this one:  ' Pushing radar cruisers out of position.' ?

When I played the Shima that meant to me getting to the flank of radar/camping CA just outside radar range and lobbing a spread of fish in to get them to move out of their comfy spot.   sometimes they would eat the torps, sometimes they would move into the open and get hammered, most times they would move out of 'their spot' giving opportunities (cap, etc)  to friendlies.

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10 minutes ago, Hulks said:

Great post!!    Pls explain this one:  ' Pushing radar cruisers out of position.' ?

Thanks, I guess you can technically do the same thing in Yugumo.    Basically you stay out of the cap at first and go on the outside flank ( this should almost exclusively be attempted on outside caps).   When you look at any given cap there are certain preferred spots where radar cruisers love to sit.  So you try to push up your flank far enough so your torps can hit those cruiser camping spots. If you spot one you unload your first set of torps into them.  Again I tend to stagger the launches.  When the torpedoes arrive the radar cruiser will have to make a choice either, stay put and eat torps or  dodge and expose themselves to gun fire from your team.  Even if they avoid all torps and gun fire they will most likely be force out of position and leave the cap unguarded. 

Edited by eviltane
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In my opinion, Shima is simply more polyvalent.

On the torp side: they have the same viable torp option, but while Shima got 2x5 the Yugumo got 2x4 + TRB. In pure torp boat, Yugumo is up there and if I remember some math done in the past, she can even put more fish in the water in the end.

In guns: the both have almost the same gun, with a marginal advantage to Yugumo on the reload (6 seconds). Both can have smoke

But here is the twist: Yugumo can either be a great torp boat, or a good gunboat and an average torp boat. Shima can be both at the same time since she do not have to choose between smoke and trb.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Y_Nagato said:

polyvalent.

Making me look up words. Great word though. 

 

4 minutes ago, Y_Nagato said:

Shima got 2x5

Shima is  3x5  so with TRB yugumo has a 1 torp advantage. 

Edited by eviltane

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For my part one can't go wrong with either ship.   Both are very effective at what they do.   I personally found the Shima to be more flexible through the course of a game.   Bottom line is there is, like in most similar discussions, there is no wrong answer here.   LIke 'chicken wings', all is good, just a matter of what flavor you like best.  

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Just now, eviltane said:

shima is  3x5  so with TRB yugumo has a 1 torp advantage

My bad, yes.

 

But in a 10 minutes times frame Yugumo can drop more torps than Shimakaze.

Yugumo with TRB: 64 torps in 601 seconds

Shimakaze: 60 in 612 seconds

 

And that's without captain skill or upgrade, but with the premium consumable. With Captain skill the yugumo can get even a smaller edge thanks the Jack of all trade.

 

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1 hour ago, Hulks said:

Hi all,

I'm very new to the Shima, and I've worked up to this ship the hard way. I always figured as the pinnacle of the Jap DD line this ship would be great. But after playing for a while, I really find it worse than the Yugumo, which I had great success in. I've tried all the three torp options but results have been very hit and miss.  Wondering if anyone can relate or has also returned to tier 9  :)

 

First off you may want to change your abbreviation for Japanese to IJN when talking about ships so that you do not get into trouble. I will not report you since I know it’s likely an honest mistake, but your current abbreviation for Japanese can often be used as a major insult. So you may want to edit your post to IJN ( Imperial Japanese Navy) before somebody else gets offended and does report you.

And back to your topic I can relate to you in WOT Blitz in particular where tier 10 is not always the most effective pinnacle of the tank lines. Often it’s tier IX, or even VIII, or VII. Have not run into that sort of thing in WOWs just yet, but I will definitely not be selling my Yugumo when I get Shimakaze. And honestly playing Kagero and Harekaze against tier X may be more effective with their good torp reloads and stealth. I will have to wait until I get to use 12km Torps before deciding that definitively.

What WOWs does do a lot that makes the tier X a clearly better choice is having the tier IX be so terrible that you are over joyed when you make it to tier X. Although there are still some tier IXs in the game that are good.

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3 minutes ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

First off you may want to change your abbreviation for Japanese to IJN when talking about ships so that you do not get into trouble. I will not report you since I know it’s likely an honest mistake, but your current abbreviation for Japanese can often be used as a major insult. So you may want to edit your post to IJN ( Imperial Japanese Navy) before somebody else gets offended and does report you.

And back to your topic I can relate to you in WOT Blitz in particular where tier 10 is not always the most effective pinnacle of the tank lines. Often it’s tier IX, or even VIII, or VII. Have not run into that sort of thing in WOWs just yet, but I will definitely not be selling my Yugumo when I get Shimakaze. And honestly playing Kagero and Harekaze against tier X may be more effective with their good torp reloads and stealth. I will have to wait until I get to use 12km Torps before deciding that definitively.

What WOWs does do a lot that makes the tier X a clearly better choice is having the tier IX be so terrible that you are over joyed when you make it to tier X. Although there are still some tier IXs in the game that are good.

Kitakaze is a lot better than Harugumo.

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2 minutes ago, enderland07 said:

Kitakaze is a lot better than Harugumo.

This is strictly because Harugumo takes full pens from battleships and Kitakaze does not.

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Just now, KiyoSenkan said:

This is strictly because Harugumo takes full pens from battleships and Kitakaze does not.

... yes?

It's still better, regardless of reason.

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37 minutes ago, Hulks said:

Is the Shima torp spread worse (meaning more spread out)?  It sure looks that way.

This is only confirmation bias.

All torps have RNG spreads.

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1 minute ago, RyuuohD_NA said:

This is only confirmation bias.

All torps have RNG spreads.

To be fair, if you run 20km torps, at long range they will be worse.

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Shima used to be a great boat but then they turned the game into a radar filled HE spam arcade and it quickly became obsolete. It's main feature is stealth, something it can no longer use. 

Current Shima strategy is not to cap for at least the firs half of the battle, stay more than 12km away while firing your 15 torps randomly at where you think BBs will be sitting or moving to....and crossing your fingers that something will get hit.

I've been in many battles where I was detected by radar non stop for 2-4 minutes at a time This happens when radar cruisers coordinate their radar. If you're in the open expect to be massacred by HE spammers and sunk within seconds. This is the new WOWS.  

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48 minutes ago, Hulks said:

Is the Shima torp spread worse (meaning more spread out)?  It sure looks that way.

I think its a hair wider yes  but over all a bit better since the extra torp usually goes down the center where a 4 torp launcher always has a gap in the center. 

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45 minutes ago, Y_Nagato said:

My bad, yes.

 

But in a 10 minutes times frame Yugumo can drop more torps than Shimakaze.

Yugumo with TRB: 64 torps in 601 seconds

Shimakaze: 60 in 612 seconds

 

And that's without captain skill or upgrade, but with the premium consumable. With Captain skill the yugumo can get even a smaller edge thanks the Jack of all trade.

 

Sure I think its debatable though whether the few extra torps are worth loosing the smoke. 

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2 minutes ago, enderland07 said:

Kitakaze is a lot better than Harugumo.

Good to know. The X ships I have are

Yamato which is a lot better than tech tree tier IX, but Premium Musashi almost is even with Yamato except in AA and to a lesser deagree in secondary gun power compared to Yamato.

Gearing which in my play style is better than Fletcher, but Fletcher is still not bad either.

Zao which has been a distinct upgrade over Ibuki.

Salem which equals Des Moines in many ways, or even exceeds Des Moines thanks to “Super Heals”  is improvement over tier IX.

Pan Asian Tier X DD which I used Free XP to get for Clan Battles, so not to sure about ships below it. But plays so much like Gearing only with Deep Water Torps that not really a learning curve for me.

Now Republique may be my first ship that I would have to debate if it’s better or it’s tier IX might be better.

Other ship lines I am working on are getting Roon and Hindi, both appear to be good. Slowly working up to Montana, and while Iowa can be good from what I have seen, would still likely sell Iowa only because I have Missouri, but then again for historical value Iowa might stay if I have the port slots free to do so. But thank you for the heads up on Kitakaze, I have been wondering about exactly which lines the tier IX would be superior to the X, since as I mentioned Wargaming did it with a few tank lines, so they likely had done that sort of thing with Warships as well. Just have not had the chance to run into those sort of bad X lines just yet in my grinds. Although even when I reach a bad tier X, will still need to buy it regardless if nothing more than to collect yearly Super Containers.

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18 minutes ago, RyuuohD_NA said:

This is only confirmation bias.

All torps have RNG spreads.

Actually that is not entirely correct. 

All IJN torpedoes have the worst spread of all nations. IJN torps will not only separate from each other to their max much earlier than other nations, they also have more spacing between them than other nations.

For example, Gearing torpedoes fired in narrow spread will, at 14km (just about to reach their max range) will gain a separation between each torp that BARELY allows a BB to sail in between them. Shimakaze 20km torpedo in narrow spread will, at just 8km distance, have spread out to their max...which allows a BB plenty of space between torps to sail in between... so much that the BB can even sail through them at a 45 degree angle. 

A simpler test is to have a BB target (training arena) sighted from broadside at 10km distance. Fire one launcher in narrow spread so that the middle of the torpedo aim cone is at the middle of the BB. Aka the entire BB is inside the green torp aim cone. 

Gearing torps will swim out and you will get guaranteed 2 to 3 torp hits. Shimakaze oth, will net only 1 or 2 torp hits. This applies to the 12km and 20km torps.

 

Shimakaze has been nerfed into a useless ship compared to other DDs of its tier and even some below its tier are much better than it. Its irrelevant that it has 15 tubes if its torps are seen from much further out, are no faster than other nation torps and take longer to reload. Its irrelevant that the torps do more damage if they hardly ever hit in comparison with other nations torps. There is no such thing as range advantage in IJN torpedoes due to the simple fact that Gearing torpedoes are 15km and Gearing has essentially the same stealth as Shimakaze..and its torps are stealthier and have a much higher hit rate. A Gearing spec'd for torpedo will always outperform a shimakaze spec'd for torpedo in torpedo damage....and then it outperforms it in gunnery (without even spec'ing on it) and has insanely better smoke and AA. 

When tier 8 ASASHIO outperforms Shimakaze in tier 10 battles in terms of torpedo damage you know something is terribly wrong...and the devs even chose to screw Asashio with super-limited BB+CV only torps while allowing chinese fantasy DDs to have regular deepwater torps...and those DDs outperform Asashio in torp damage should they play as a torpedo ship not some gunboat as they all do for some inane reason. 

To the OP I say: Get Asashio and forget about all IJN DD lines. Asashio is the ONLY DD in the game that truly represents in a limited fashion the actual capability of IJN's Long Lance torpedo. 

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