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LunchCutter

Buffalo just cannot hurt BB's..

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 I'm having a rough this with this boat, I understand its weaknesses but I cannot use its guns. Side-on HE shells into a tier 9 BB are resulting in either 900 damage for a full broadside or 0 damage... Switch to AP for zero pens and bounces..:(

 It's effective against other cruisers and DD's, but BB's are proving to be completely invulnerable. Spamming HE at a side-on Iowa at 14k, 75% hit rate, 75% zero damage, minor damage when it does pen, he turns around and shoots at me, although I'm correctly angled I lose half my health..lol #cry

Attached a screeny of my dueling with a Georgia (useless team  melted so it was game over anyway), I could not even chip his paint.. Every time it happens I keep thinking how more effective I'd be if I was in a BB or a DD, but not this thing.

shot-19.09.25_16.02.40-0879.jpg

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15 minutes ago, LunchCutter said:

 I'm having a rough this with this boat, I understand its weaknesses but I cannot use its guns. Side-on HE shells into a tier 9 BB are resulting in either 900 damage for a full broadside or 0 damage... Switch to AP for zero pens and bounces..:(

 It's effective against other cruisers and DD's, but BB's are proving to be completely invulnerable. Spamming HE at a side-on Iowa at 14k, 75% hit rate, 75% zero damage, minor damage when it does pen, he turns around and shoots at me, although I'm correctly angled I lose half my health..lol #cry

Attached a screeny of my dueling with a Georgia (useless team  melted so it was game over anyway), I could not even chip his paint.. Every time it happens I keep thinking how more effective I'd be if I was in a BB or a DD, but not this thing.

shot-19.09.25_16.02.40-0879.jpg

Do you have any shots of where your shells were landing?  

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4 minutes ago, Amenhir said:

Do you have any shots of where your shells were landing?  

Well they were hitting him, no damage tho, 6 straight losses in this dam boat today, really thinking about selling it and staying with DD's. 

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4 minutes ago, LunchCutter said:

Well they were hitting him, no damage tho, 6 straight losses in this dam boat today, really thinking about selling it and staying with DD's. 

ok there are a few reasons for this. if your shells are hitting the turret then you are not gonna get any damage. You need to aim for the bow, stern, and superstructure for HE. With AP against a bb should be done with around 10 km and aim for top hull when ship is broadside. The buffalo is a ship that gets a ton of people in trouble because they think they must use all 4 of the gun mounts. This is a mistake. You should set up to use terrain as much as possible.

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9 minutes ago, The_Chiv said:

ok there are a few reasons for this. if your shells are hitting the turret then you are not gonna get any damage. You need to aim for the bow, stern, and superstructure for HE. With AP against a bb should be done with around 10 km and aim for top hull when ship is broadside. The buffalo is a ship that gets a ton of people in trouble because they think they must use all 4 of the gun mounts. This is a mistake. You should set up to use terrain as much as possible.

Well its a massive amount of luck, the shells are pretty random in where they fly so trying to pinpoint aiming this thing past 8k is just a flip of the dice.. Trying to Kite as well, also find it hard as the shells fall like snowflakes so hitting stuff beyond 15k is pretty difficult.

 Also a sub 25% WR in it and 90% of games been complete 1 sided annihilation's is making me think the Match Maker Gods fricken hate this boat. 7 straight loses in it today.. Really tempted to just sell it as I'm finding it zero fun.

Edited by LunchCutter

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30 minutes ago, LunchCutter said:

Well its a massive amount of luck, the shells are pretty random in where they fly so trying to pinpoint aiming this thing past 8k is just a flip of the dice.. Trying to Kite as well, also find it hard as the shells fall like snowflakes so hitting stuff beyond 15k is pretty difficult.

 Also a sub 25% WR in it and 90% of games been complete 1 sided annihilation's is making me think the Match Maker Gods fricken hate this boat. 7 straight loses in it today.. Really tempted to just sell it as I'm finding it zero fun.

Luck has a bit less influence than you give it credit for.  The angle of your ship as you fire has a greater effect. Example say you are kiting away from a target and you pivot just enough to get your front two turrets to be active and fire. Your back guns will be a bit more direct to target while your front will be a bit more lobby. Ironically this creates a pretty tight spread on target.

I would say probably the best way to play the buffalo is similar to playing an ijn CA line. The atago is a good example. Knowing when to engage, what to engage, and position are the most important things when playing a cruisers. Trying to open water fight is just dangerous. Also, don't go for the reload mod, go for the range mod and it tends to give you a bit more time to duck incoming fire.

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I find that the_chiv gives pretty good advice. He helped me out with an AA build and critiqued a replay I posted here. I found his advice valuable for counter cv play. Take what he says and apply it.

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Buffalo has been a great target for my Mogador.   She can’t maneuver away from the torps and takes citadel AP rounds consistently.  Please keep playing her.  

Shooting at just outside concealment range is hilarious.   Buffalo cannot aim its guns in time before Mogador just disappears 

Edited by Toxic_Potato
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Get rid of the stupid laser trails so you can see where your hitting. 

This is an owner operator fault, and as such is not covered by the warranty given when the ship was purchased

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Is it just me, or does your target look a little on the charred side? Damage saturation in the areas you strike may be robbing you of damage done.

Take your Buffalo into the training room, put in a couple of bot BB's that don't move, and take some shots at similar angles, at a fresh target that nobody has worked over yet. If there are still issues, get back to us.

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3 hours ago, LunchCutter said:

Spamming HE at a side-on Iowa at 14k, 75% hit rate, 75% zero damage, minor damage when it does pen, he turns around and shoots at me, although I'm correctly angled I lose half my health..lol #cry

Odds are you aren't angled quite right. The 406 on an Iowa overmatches the armour on the bow, you need it to hit the side of the ship along the belt to bounce it. Then again, most BB's you shouldn't be relying on armour to save you when in a cruiser. Other than maybe Scharn and I think the 380's are the top limit.

If the Iowa is actually side on - you should be firing AP above the belt where it'll chunk HP - last check Tier 8+ CA should have the shells with better angles to ricochet less as well. HE should be if the BB is bow on or stern on that will bounce AP. The aim then should be to land rounds on the bow/deck (203 mm HE auto pens that armour) or the superstructure. HE in to the sides is likely hitting the 38 mm side plate - that you won't pen without IFHE which is why you use AP, or the belt armour that's even thicker and can only be punched through at closer ranges with AP. 

 

Looking at the picture of you vs Georgia, first problem is engaging it open water under 10 km, second is having the stern pointed at it. Bow on the USN cruisers can act like mini-BB's to an extent, stern these things eat hits like crazy. Unless you've moved the aimpoint from where you've actually fired your aiming completely wrong in that picture. That aimpoint the rounds should be landing low around the rear turret. Which means most, if not all, are going to shatter. While he is going the same direction he's angled away, and Georgia is a fairly fast ship. See where the markers for the forward turrets is - there and up a bit (closer to lining up the chevron with the turrets) is where you should have been aiming, that should have put rounds in the superstructure, where all you have to worry about is damage saturation (cutting damage in half) and the occasional 0 pen from AA guns. Georgia's 457's are simply going to just wreck you as they hit, and that Sinop has broadside were it in range and paying attention is a bad spot and scenario. You'd have done better to turn right, splitting the difference to point your bow more toward Sinop, and adjust the angle to the point that while dodging fire from Georgia by timing out the guns and dodging as he fires, easier as the range increases, it should if his angle stays consistent bring you to a point that he is near 90 degrees to you and can slam AP in to his side. At the same time, while you wait on the rear turret reload, you can attempt to ram AP in to the side of Sinop, and help Colorado. Alternatively, left around the island, get your bow pointed to him, and charge. Again, timing turrets you can try and dodge his rounds to get close, and if he doesn't have IFHE 127 mm secondaries shouldn't pen you. At close range even easier to drive AP in to him and BB turrets are slow enough you can out run to a degree, and put yourself in a position where only his rear turret is really trained on you - better 2 barrels than 4-6. And if you only have the stern and AP won't pen HE because 32 mm plating there. Should be at that range close to 6/6 pens for max damage unless he ate a torp there or something. 

But that's me - I have none of the issues you describe with this ship.

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4 hours ago, LunchCutter said:

Every time it happens I keep thinking how more effective I'd be if I was in a BB or a DD, but not this thing.

well, CA were not designed to kill battleships as a first point. CA should be going again other cruisers and DD. plan your tactic accordingly. You can set battleships on fire w/o problem with the Buffalo, but flags and the right Captain settings are needed as well. So, Buffalo is a potent support cruiser, but avoid single duels with battleships, especially in open waters, unless you are kiting of course. 

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43 minutes ago, WanderingGhost said:

Odds are you aren't angled quite right. The 406 on an Iowa overmatches the armour on the bow, you need it to hit the side of the ship along the belt to bounce it. Then again, most BB's you shouldn't be relying on armour to save you when in a cruiser. Other than maybe Scharn and I think the 380's are the top limit.

If the Iowa is actually side on - you should be firing AP above the belt where it'll chunk HP - last check Tier 8+ CA should have the shells with better angles to ricochet less as well. HE should be if the BB is bow on or stern on that will bounce AP. The aim then should be to land rounds on the bow/deck (203 mm HE auto pens that armour) or the superstructure. HE in to the sides is likely hitting the 38 mm side plate - that you won't pen without IFHE which is why you use AP, or the belt armour that's even thicker and can only be punched through at closer ranges with AP. 

 

Looking at the picture of you vs Georgia, first problem is engaging it open water under 10 km, second is having the stern pointed at it. Bow on the USN cruisers can act like mini-BB's to an extent, stern these things eat hits like crazy. Unless you've moved the aimpoint from where you've actually fired your aiming completely wrong in that picture. That aimpoint the rounds should be landing low around the rear turret. Which means most, if not all, are going to shatter. While he is going the same direction he's angled away, and Georgia is a fairly fast ship. See where the markers for the forward turrets is - there and up a bit (closer to lining up the chevron with the turrets) is where you should have been aiming, that should have put rounds in the superstructure, where all you have to worry about is damage saturation (cutting damage in half) and the occasional 0 pen from AA guns. Georgia's 457's are simply going to just wreck you as they hit, and that Sinop has broadside were it in range and paying attention is a bad spot and scenario. You'd have done better to turn right, splitting the difference to point your bow more toward Sinop, and adjust the angle to the point that while dodging fire from Georgia by timing out the guns and dodging as he fires, easier as the range increases, it should if his angle stays consistent bring you to a point that he is near 90 degrees to you and can slam AP in to his side. At the same time, while you wait on the rear turret reload, you can attempt to ram AP in to the side of Sinop, and help Colorado. Alternatively, left around the island, get your bow pointed to him, and charge. Again, timing turrets you can try and dodge his rounds to get close, and if he doesn't have IFHE 127 mm secondaries shouldn't pen you. At close range even easier to drive AP in to him and BB turrets are slow enough you can out run to a degree, and put yourself in a position where only his rear turret is really trained on you - better 2 barrels than 4-6. And if you only have the stern and AP won't pen HE because 32 mm plating there. Should be at that range close to 6/6 pens for max damage unless he ate a torp there or something. 

But that's me - I have none of the issues you describe with this ship.

Damn. That's a PHD in Buffalo play right there. Great job. 

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The HE Pen of Non-German 203mm:

203mm / 6 = 33.83 or 34mm of armor needed to defeat this shell

 

Getting a feel of the general armor value of the targets you engage is going to be important if you want raw HE Pen damage in High Tier.  This isn't Tier VII, VIII Heavy Cruiser gameplay where you are facing tons of mid tier Battleships with sh*tty 25mm deck armor.  Buffalo is for most parts only facing High Tier competition and the BBs ramp up their armor values also.

Now, with the formula above showing what armor you can defeat, there's some general rules in High Tier BB armor:

All High Tier BBs:

19mm superstructure - You can pen.

32mm bow - You can pen.

Main Battery turrets - LOL you can't pen these with HE.

Conning Tower - Fluctuates, but they all tend to be very thickly armored.

 

USN BBs

VIII North Carolina - 37mm deck armor - Can't pen

IX Iowa / X Montana - 38mm deck armor - Can't pen.

 

FR & RN BBs

32mm deck armor - You can pen.

 

IJN BBs

VIII Amagi - 32mm deck armor - You can pen.

IX Izumo - 57mm deck armor - LOL hell no!

IX Musashi / X Yamato - 58mm deck armor - LOL hell no!

 

German BBs

50mm deck armor - LOL hell no!

 

RU BBs

VIII Vladivostok - 40mm - Can't pen.

IX Sovetsky Soyuz / X Kremlin - 60mm - LOL hell no!

 

So, when you're shooting at these High Tier BBs, the first priority is the Superstructure which is easiest to hit.  But that also tends to be Damage Saturated the earliest, and your damage dealing to saturated sections drops considerably.  Outside that, the deck is the next best to aim for but as you can see, there's a number of High Tier BBs that will cause non-pens for your 203mm HE.  Failing that, you got the bow, and they all got 32mm for that area, so you can pen there.  However, it can be difficult to aim for and hit the bow depending on the range.

 

The BBs that will be most vulnerable to your HE attacks will be FR & RN BBs.  The 19mm superstructure, 32mm bow & deck armor, you will get non-stop HE Pen against them unless you hit their Main Battery turrets.  If you must attack a high armor / high deck armor BB, and the superstructure is Damage Saturated, and you can't reliably hit the bow, well, all you can do is keep spamming and pray for Fires.

 

Also, another cause of Non-pens even where you think you should be able to pen the deck, etc, is hitting the Main Battery turrets, as mentioned earlier.  If the BB is sharply angled, bow on, this can easily happen.  Just look at a forward profile of a BB, and the Main Battery turret faces can take up a very significant portion of what you can see.  There's also the very thick conning tower on the forward superstructure.  You won't HE Pen that either.

 

Here's a bow on NC profile.

OFrX4V2.jpg

That entire mid section of NC that's all red, you can't HE Pen with your 203mm guns.  That 37mm deck armor is also no bueno.  So, you are left with the bow and superstructure which you can pen.  The natural practice is to aim for the superstructure but as you can see, quite a bit of it is blocked by the turrets and conning tower.

Also, not all BBs share the same conning tower shape, in terms of how much is blocking the superstructure.  Here is Iowa.  The conning tower profile is much smaller and even bow on, you'll be able to get more shots into the superstructure.

LIC4jlB.jpg

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OK thanks for the (excellent) help, I'll do some runs in the training room with it. 

 Just had a awful losing streak with it, made me lose confidence and interest.. 

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6 hours ago, LunchCutter said:

 I'm having a rough this with this boat, I understand its weaknesses but I cannot use its guns. Side-on HE shells into a tier 9 BB are resulting in either 900 damage for a full broadside or 0 damage... Switch to AP for zero pens and bounces..:(

 It's effective against other cruisers and DD's, but BB's are proving to be completely invulnerable. Spamming HE at a side-on Iowa at 14k, 75% hit rate, 75% zero damage, minor damage when it does pen, he turns around and shoots at me, although I'm correctly angled I lose half my health..lol #cry

Attached a screeny of my dueling with a Georgia (useless team  melted so it was game over anyway), I could not even chip his paint.. Every time it happens I keep thinking how more effective I'd be if I was in a BB or a DD, but not this thing.

shot-19.09.25_16.02.40-0879.jpg

That's odd. Buffalo tears in to BBs pretty well. I just finished regrinding it a couple of weeks ago and it was great. (It didn't exist when I first grinded the UCN CAs so I really didn't play it before.) Others have already post it, clearly but you are hitting something that is too thick. I suspect you are hitting the belt a lot and HE will not go through that. Personally I fired AP into BB superstructures and upper belts at every opportunity I got with Buffalo and it did quite well. The improved autobounce angles work on BBs too. I only fired enough HE to start fires or if the BB is super angled. USN CA HE isn't nearly impressive enough to spam it if you don't have to. We're not talking IJN CA HE here. That Georgia doesn't look that angled to me and it is very close. You may have done better with AP into the superstructure and upper belt at those ranges. 

Also I have to agree with that others have said. I know it is just a matter of personal preferences but I can't see a thing through all those colored streamers. 

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