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Awe5ome

Smolensk made Mino obsolete.

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FIRST THINGS FIRST, I do not think that Mino is obsolete rather this is just to point out how ridiculously OP Smolensk is.

 

The Minotaur for starters does not get High Explosive because it was considered too overpowered to give a ship with a smokescreen and a high rate of fire something that can do damage regardless of angle and have the possibility to set fires. Smolensk because of Russian stronk gets 6 more guns than Mino a smokescreen and High Explosive, and with a 10% fire chance, this thing will easily set fires to anything. The Smolensk does have a smaller calibre and a slightly slower rate of fire but this is more than compensated by the fact she has 16 guns. In a bow-on situation, the Mino can fire 4 shells forward or backwards while the Smolensk can fire 8. In terms of pure DPM, the Smolensk has an AP DPM of 624,000 compared to the Minotaurs 685,714.3. However, this is in a broadside-on situation in a more realistic Bow-on situation Minotaur has a max DPM of 274,285.7 compared to Smolensk which has 312,000. But let's not forget that in a bow-on situation Mino's AP would bounce, resulting in 0 damage Smolensk however, gets HE, it's an easy win for the Smolensk. Torpedoes are one of the few area's where Mino gets the upper hand 16 vs 10, the British torps have a max range of 10km and a max speed of 62kts which will be detected from a range of 1.3km this gives a reaction time of 8.1s. The Smolensk torps have a speed of 60kts a range of 8km and they'll be detected at a range of 1.2km giving a reaction time of 7.7s. The armour on both ships is trash but because Smolensk's armour is so deplorably bad at close range big AP shells just go in one side an out the other. The Mino however, has a citadel that is seen from space and is just thick enough to arm almost any big AP shells that touches it. Honestly, Smolensk, Colbert, any high tier french DD, Akizuki+, British Battleships, French cruisers, Worcester,  all need a massive HE nerf. No one enjoys being burned down by some ship 15km sitting behind an island just clicking. Smolensk and Colbert should just be removed I mean there's no need for such ships exist they're only contributing to a worse game experience. I also find it funny that WG wants it's BB's to push alongside the rest of their team but doing so immediately results in HE spamming that ship to oblivion. If I had to choose one thing that will be the straw that breaks camels back I'd say high DPM HE spamming ships.   

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While I agree about the lack of easy counter play against the Smolensk, while you do have some against Mino, Mino still have a few redeeming feature. If the citadel is easier to get, Mino do have 10k more HP and the British heal. And Mino is a tad more versatile and, in my opinion, more useful in competitive thanks to the possibility to have a 10 km radar on a ship with 9.6km detection, making it a nightmare for DD.

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16 minutes ago, Awe5ome said:

FIRST THINGS FIRST, I do not think that Mino is obsolete 

 

17 minutes ago, Awe5ome said:

Smolensk made Mino obsolete.

:|

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9 minutes ago, Y_Nagato said:

While I agree about the lack of easy counter play against the Smolensk, while you do have some against Mino, Mino still have a few redeeming feature. If the citadel is easier to get, Mino do have 10k more HP and the British heal. And Mino is a tad more versatile and, in my opinion, more useful in competitive thanks to the possibility to have a 10 km radar on a ship with 9.6km detection, making it a nightmare for DD.

I agree. Try to run a radar Smolensk. 

The RN heal helps alot. Also, her torps are superior. Some of my best games include launching them into the path of BB while staying out of their sight. Something the Smolensk cannot do.

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Smolensk is a show-pony.  Minotaur is a work horse.  When there's a job to do, you know which one to hitch up to the plough.

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6 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Smolensk is a show-pony.  Minotaur is a work horse.  When there's a job to do, you know which one to hitch up to the plough.

Certainly more useable torps on Mino plus better utility.

Recently I found I doing roughly the same damage in both.

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13 minutes ago, Erebthoron said:

I agree. Try to run a radar Smolensk. 

The RN heal helps alot. Also, her torps are superior. Some of my best games include launching them into the path of BB while staying out of their sight. Something the Smolensk cannot do.

Yeah sorry this. ^

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I run radar Minotaur, I can see smoke Minotaur being obsoleted but radar Minotaur's increasingly the better investment, and is fairly effective against Smolensk, though being soft enough to get HE penned allover doesn't really help.

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4 minutes ago, mofton said:

I run radar Minotaur, I can see smoke Minotaur being obsoleted but radar Minotaur's increasingly the better investment, and is fairly effective against Smolensk, though being soft enough to get HE penned allover doesn't really help.

The squishiness of the Mino is stopping me from trying this. Ill get comfortable with it's smoke first, then give the radar mino a try. 

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10 minutes ago, Octavian_of_Roma said:

The squishiness of the Mino is stopping me from trying this. Ill get comfortable with it's smoke first, then give the radar mino a try. 

Radar Mino is a beast especially in comp type setting.   From a DD driver perspective I HATE tripping across a radar Mino.   Radar Mino in random is...  challenging...  main thing is you have to be hyper aware of where BBs and big gun cruisers are on the map.    One laps in awareness and the eraser comes out.   

The OP makes good points but based on past experience fighting and driving the mino and current experience fighting Smol in DDs and a BB I don't feel the Smol makes the Mino any less relevant simply because I feel the Mino has more over all utility.    To put it another way with mostly a DD view point...  the smol annoys me while I still fear the damn Mino.

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1 minute ago, BadWolfz said:

Radar Mino is a beast especially in comp type setting.   From a DD driver perspective I HATE tripping across a radar Mino.   Radar Mino in random is...  challenging...  main thing is you have to be hyper aware of where BBs and big gun cruisers are on the map.    One laps in awareness and the eraser comes out.   

The OP makes good points but based on past experience fighting and driving the mino and current experience fighting Smol in DDs and a BB I don't feel the Smol makes the Mino any less relevant simply because I feel the Mino has more over all utility.    To put it another way with mostly a DD view point...  the smol annoys me while I still fear the damn Mino.

I thought this might be the case. 

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1 hour ago, Awe5ome said:

FIRST THINGS FIRST, I do not think that Mino is obsolete rather this is just to point out how ridiculously OP Smolensk is.

 

The Minotaur for starters does not get High Explosive because it was considered too overpowered to give a ship with a smokescreen and a high rate of fire something that can do damage regardless of angle and have the possibility to set fires. Smolensk because of Russian stronk gets 6 more guns than Mino a smokescreen and High Explosive, and with a 10% fire chance, this thing will easily set fires to anything. The Smolensk does have a smaller calibre and a slightly slower rate of fire but this is more than compensated by the fact she has 16 guns. In a bow-on situation, the Mino can fire 4 shells forward or backwards while the Smolensk can fire 8. In terms of pure DPM, the Smolensk has an AP DPM of 624,000 compared to the Minotaurs 685,714.3. However, this is in a broadside-on situation in a more realistic Bow-on situation Minotaur has a max DPM of 274,285.7 compared to Smolensk which has 312,000. But let's not forget that in a bow-on situation Mino's AP would bounce, resulting in 0 damage Smolensk however, gets HE, it's an easy win for the Smolensk. Torpedoes are one of the few area's where Mino gets the upper hand 16 vs 10, the British torps have a max range of 10km and a max speed of 62kts which will be detected from a range of 1.3km this gives a reaction time of 8.1s. The Smolensk torps have a speed of 60kts a range of 8km and they'll be detected at a range of 1.2km giving a reaction time of 7.7s. The armour on both ships is trash but because Smolensk's armour is so deplorably bad at close range big AP shells just go in one side an out the other. The Mino however, has a citadel that is seen from space and is just thick enough to arm almost any big AP shells that touches it. Honestly, Smolensk, Colbert, any high tier french DD, Akizuki+, British Battleships, French cruisers, Worcester,  all need a massive HE nerf. No one enjoys being burned down by some ship 15km sitting behind an island just clicking. Smolensk and Colbert should just be removed I mean there's no need for such ships exist they're only contributing to a worse game experience. I also find it funny that WG wants it's BB's to push alongside the rest of their team but doing so immediately results in HE spamming that ship to oblivion. If I had to choose one thing that will be the straw that breaks camels back I'd say high DPM HE spamming ships.   

Before anyone says... The Smolensk is this or that...  Here is the PIC...

image.thumb.png.a72c373c3ec903f9b57ced5a50d805fa.png

Make your own judgment based on an unbiased view. People will decide...

Mogador 18748 DMG

Hak            8000 DMG

Alasce       1190 DMG

Hak            8000 DMG

 
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The Mino hasn't been made obsolete because not everyone who owns a mino, also owns a smol

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1 hour ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Smolensk is a show-pony.  Minotaur is a work horse.  When there's a job to do, you know which one to hitch up to the plough.

OTOH, you can't BBQ with a mino. You can  get arsonist and witherer awards easy with Smolensk.

 

shot-19_09.24_23_50.47-0092.thumb.jpg.0e6fcbeda28d11eec88bc9f9dd0c35fc.jpg

 

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While 2 smolensks can turn 3 tier 10 battleships, 1 dd and 2 cruisers around, they cannot win a game solo...

Average players, like me, struggle to get wins.

Good to unicom players can heavily influence a match.

So if you see one kill it fast, just like Minnow. Wooster and Haragumo....

 

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While Mino can definitely still be fun occasionally, the way the meta has progressed, she ain't what she used to be. And while we are on the topic of T10 cruisers that don't see much meta relevance anymore, Stalin and Moskva have to make way for the new Russian Bias. Some how DDs have been become better AP shooters than Cruisers. :fish_book: 

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3 hours ago, Awe5ome said:

In a bow-on situation, the Mino can fire 4 shells forward or backwards while the Smolensk can fire 8. In terms of pure DPM, the Smolensk has an AP DPM of 624,000 compared to the Minotaurs 685,714.3. However, this is in a broadside-on situation in a more realistic Bow-on situation Minotaur has a max DPM of 274,285.7 compared to Smolensk which has 312,000. But let's not forget that in a bow-on situation Mino's AP would bounce, resulting in 0 damage Smolensk however, gets HE, it's an easy win for the Smolensk.

I am sorry to break it to you, but in your hypothetical situation when these two CLs will face each other in the open, it’s likely the win will go to Mino.  Broadside, it’s really going to favor the guy who is more aware and opens fire first, but if they are both on top of their game Mino will do significantly higher citadel damage.  If they are in bow on situation at close range (and yes, this did happen to me once), Mino will absolutely murder Smolensk turrets before Smolensk can do any significant damage at all.  Then it will shower super superstructure will AP while swinging to put torps into action.

As far as game utility, Mino stays relevant due to many things people mentioned in this thread. Personally, you should not underestimate certain things that are taken for granted, the acceleration alone is making Smolensk look like snail on a sand paper.

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3 hours ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Smolensk is a show-pony.  Minotaur is a work horse.  When there's a job to do, you know which one to hitch up to the plough.

Both are show-ponies IMHO. At least in Randoms, the correct answer is "neither".

Competitive is about as relevant for the average player as the color of their ship captains shirt.

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3 hours ago, mofton said:

I run radar Minotaur, I can see smoke Minotaur being obsoleted but radar Minotaur's increasingly the better investment, and is fairly effective against Smolensk, though being soft enough to get HE penned allover doesn't really help.

Can confirm.

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I played a few games of each back to back just to have the most accurate comparison. As someone who has played Minotaur a lot I still highly prefer it over the Smolensk. While the Smolensk does do well with shooting its HE from far away and does a bit more plane shredding, the Minotaur does everything and I do mean everything else better. My opinion might change if the Smolensk got some improved concealment to compensate for having to give up CE and RF for optimal captain skills but even then there are so many good fire starting cruisers at T10 that one with DD guns is just not all that appealing. Also there is always the Harugumo.

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10 hours ago, Awe5ome said:

Akizuki+

Stop comparing these ships to cruisers. Because Friesland just proved that Akizuki line need neither 1/4 pen or torpedo reload booster.

To the contrary, the Minotaur and Neptune could use a citadel buff and Worcester is still suffering from having her radar clipped and what harm did Seattle ever do???

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From time to time when I encounter Smolensk in my Minotaur (I run smoke mostly, although radar shows potential) I challenge them to single combat. Most of the time, they go to the other side of the map :cap_haloween:The three or four times they've taken me up on it, I've either dev struck them with a torpedo volley as they cowered in smoke or gutted them with citadels before they could even say vodka. It's just like Worchester and Harugumo; I haven't yet lost a battle with them in my Minotaur, a feat I can't say I've repeated with my other high-tier cruisers.

Screenshot (1243).png

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