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Mephiztopheleze

DDs and CVs, a tale of misery

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This is out of hand.

CVs everywhere and DD drivers getting utterly wrecked with no even semi-reliable way of countering it.
Please, some kind of buff for DDs against bloody sky cancer. It's at the point where I'm tempted just throw the match when I'm in a DD (which is 99% of the time) and there's a CV in the game. I mean, I'll die as soon as I'm perma-spotted so why bother trying to do anything useful for the team.

As an idea, allow DDs to 'stealth fire' at planes. No more AA detection range bloom. They need to get right on top of me and through my AA (HAH!, DD AA, what a joke) to spot me.
Or, increase dispersion of all shells fired at a target that's only spotted by a plane (and increase the bloody dispersion of those railgun rockets).

Being a DD in a CV game just makes me feel like I'm there to make up numbers and pad some CV players stats, it's not fun.
With subs coming in I don't see how a DD is going to be able to accomplish anything in a game with both CVs and Subs.

This is a game, I play it for fun. Having more than half my matches with CVs in the game means I actually have very little fun.

Some rebuttals to the obvious comments coming.
"But just dodge the rockets, n00b": fine, i dodge the rockets and get shat on by everything else in range of me.
"De-activate your AA, n00b": Already do that, once spotted, I'm screwed, see above.
"Stay in AA range of your allies, n00b": how the hell does that help the team when the DDs are back with the cruisers and BBs?
"Smoke up and go unspotted, n00b": great idea, I waste the CVs time for the duration of my smoke while they just circle above me where I can't shoot at them unless someone else is spotting the plane for me. Once the smoke clears, I'm both spotted, probably moving pretty slowly and get rektd.

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I am DD main, and for me I never worry to much about the CV anymore regardless of what DD I am in.  There are ways to stay undetected through out the match and if you do get spotted by the CV then of course smoke up or turn around back into his planes so the CV has less time to react firing at you, but the trick is to not stay in your smoke till it runs out, look at your mini map to see what his plane position is and make a run for it in a direction he wouldn't suspect, all I will say is it works for me, this is just one suggestion to you in dealing with them.

Or buy a Freisland DD and you will be happy you have a cv in the game.

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Literally ignores every actual solution to the problem and instead whines because they want hand outs. 

 

Theres plenty of ways to deal with CV’s as a destroyer. I would know, I played CV’s specifically to learn how to counter play them in destroyers. 

Truth be told it’s not that hard. DD captains, especially the bad ones, would rather make other people’s lives harder rather then adapt to the new meta. 

Do you actually think that removing CV’s or nerfing the class further will fix a 46% win rate in destroyers?

 

anyways, if you’d like to learn some tricks I have for dealing with CV’s I’ll be happy to share. But if you want wargaming to just hand you an easy button to win then you are the wrong kind of player for the destroyer class. 

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23 minutes ago, Mephiztopheleze said:

.

This is a game, I play it for fun. Having more than half my matches with CVs in the game means I actually have very little fun.
 

Sorry, son. "Fun" doesnt show up on the spreadsheets.

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I've found that the first pass of a CV tends to be searching for and striking available DDs... subsequent passes generally tend to involve other ships that have branched away from the pack. Hanging back a bit with the CA / CLs can help avoid the first strike... then going about your business. 

I've found some will stay boresighted on sinking you- leaving the rest of the fleet untouched and uncontested... which can often provide the inertia needed to pull out a win. It can be frustrating- but even the most religious DD detractor has a hard time complaining about your contribution if you're being zero'd by a CV. 

Edited by _ENO_

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29 minutes ago, Mephiztopheleze said:

This is out of hand.

CVs everywhere and DD drivers getting utterly wrecked with no even semi-reliable way of countering it.
Please, some kind of buff for DDs against bloody sky cancer. It's at the point where I'm tempted just throw the match when I'm in a DD (which is 99% of the time) and there's a CV in the game. I mean, I'll die as soon as I'm perma-spotted so why bother trying to do anything useful for the team.

As an idea, allow DDs to 'stealth fire' at planes. No more AA detection range bloom. They need to get right on top of me and through my AA (HAH!, DD AA, what a joke) to spot me.
Or, increase dispersion of all shells fired at a target that's only spotted by a plane (and increase the bloody dispersion of those railgun rockets).

Being a DD in a CV game just makes me feel like I'm there to make up numbers and pad some CV players stats, it's not fun.
With subs coming in I don't see how a DD is going to be able to accomplish anything in a game with both CVs and Subs.

This is a game, I play it for fun. Having more than half my matches with CVs in the game means I actually have very little fun.

Some rebuttals to the obvious comments coming.
"But just dodge the rockets, n00b": fine, i dodge the rockets and get shat on by everything else in range of me.
"De-activate your AA, n00b": Already do that, once spotted, I'm screwed, see above.
"Stay in AA range of your allies, n00b": how the hell does that help the team when the DDs are back with the cruisers and BBs?
"Smoke up and go unspotted, n00b": great idea, I waste the CVs time for the duration of my smoke while they just circle above me where I can't shoot at them unless someone else is spotting the plane for me. Once the smoke clears, I'm both spotted, probably moving pretty slowly and get rektd.

Argh also a DD main and I hate CVs but man oh man CVs are not your real problem.    There is so much hyperbole piled into your post it’s useless. Really  the perfect example for pro CV posters to point at when looking for a poster child CV hating lunatic. 

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1 minute ago, eviltane said:

Argh also a DD main and I hate CVs but man oh man CVs are not your real problem.    There is so much hyperbole piled into your post it’s useless. Really  the perfect example for pro CV posters to point at when looking for a poster child CV hating lunatic.  

thank you for your complete lack of useful input.

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2 minutes ago, Mephiztopheleze said:

thank you for your complete lack of useful input.

There was something useful there:  Turn down the hyperbole. It’s making you and everyone else who wants to be rid of CVs look bad.

Edited by eviltane
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33 minutes ago, _ENO_ said:

I've found that the first pass of a CV tends to be searching for and striking available DDs... subsequent passes generally tend to involve other ships that have branched away from the pack. Hanging back a bit with the CA / CLs can help avoid the first strike... then going about your business. 

I've found some will stay boresighted on sinking you- leaving the rest of the fleet untouched and uncontested... which can often provide the inertia needed to pull out a win. It can be frustrating- but even the most religious DD detractor has a hard time complaining about your contribution if you're being zero'd by a CV. 

I find that most CV players, once they spot a DD will try and keep it spotted for as long as possible, losing the squad if needs be, to give the rest of the team ample opportunity to just blow the DD out of the water.
They don't need to sink me, although a few decent rocket attacks can do that, they just have to keep me spotted.

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CV's aren't even an issue if you know how to DD...

 

PROTIP: Don't be anywhere near a cap in the first 90 seconds or you'll die. Assume it's crawling with radar cruisers and aircraft. Because it is...

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44 minutes ago, 1An0maly1 said:

Literally ignores every actual solution to the problem and instead whines because they want hand outs. 

 

Theres plenty of ways to deal with CV’s as a destroyer. I would know, I played CV’s specifically to learn how to counter play them in destroyers. 

Truth be told it’s not that hard. DD captains, especially the bad ones, would rather make other people’s lives harder rather then adapt to the new meta. 

Do you actually think that removing CV’s or nerfing the class further will fix a 46% win rate in destroyers?

 

anyways, if you’d like to learn some tricks I have for dealing with CV’s I’ll be happy to share. But if you want wargaming to just hand you an easy button to win then you are the wrong kind of player for the destroyer class. 

please share. because right now I just get utterly obliterated nine times out of ten as soon as some CV player just keeps me spotted.

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I HATE CV's it's that simple.

 

To have a player in game that can attack you without being able to attack back is nuts!

Yes, I can try to hunt them down. They also need a waiting period like Torps have before being able to attack

a Spawn area at the beginning of a match!

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38 minutes ago, 1An0maly1 said:

I played CV’s specifically to learn how to counter play them in destroyers. 

^^^this^^^

I often see DD mains (who have not come to an understanding of how a CV captain engages DDs) complain about something that is often easily mitigated...with the correct DD play.  

I play all ship types.  A lot about learning to counter DDs in CVs requires me to play DDs.  A lot about learning to counter CVs in DDs requires me to play CVs.  Also, especially as a CV captain, I can TELL QUICKLY if a a DD captain knows what he's doing.  If I see you do not understand how to mitigate my attacks, you become a prime target.  Not because you're a DD, but because you are a target that I can often kill quickly because you DO NOT UNDERSTAND HOW TO LIMIT me.  This applies to all ships.  If I'm a in  BB and see a CA captain showing a broadside...I'm going to whack him.  If I'm in a DD and see BB driving straight, I'm going to whack him.  And if I'm a fire breathing CA with terrain and a BB in the open, I'm going to burn him down.

Strategy!  Tactics!  It helps to know what you play, but you also gotta know what you play against.

If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.” (Sun Tzu)

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6 minutes ago, Halli_SPARTA said:

I HATE CV's it's that simple.

 

To have a player in game that can attack you without being able to attack back is nuts!

Yes, I can try to hunt them down. They also need a waiting period like Torps have before being able to attack

a Spawn area at the beginning of a match!

So do you advocate for the removal of all forms of stealth attacks and ranges be normalize so that no ship can out range another?

 

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2 minutes ago, StoneRhino said:

So do you advocate for the removal of all forms of stealth attacks and ranges be normalize so that no ship can out range another?

 

DD stealth Attack does not equal CV attacks.  One is from stealth but within range of retaliation.  The other  is not from stealth  but out of range from retaliation.    The two never were a good comparison.

Edited by eviltane
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2 minutes ago, eviltane said:

DD stealth Attack does not equal CV attacks.  One is from stealth but within range of guns.  The other  is not from stealth  but out of range from retaliation.   

Ahh this useless rhetoric again.

Just because you cannot hit the main hull of the CV doesn't mean you can't reduce the CV's capability to deal damage to you.

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18 minutes ago, Halli_SPARTA said:

I HATE CV's it's that simple.

 

To have a player in game that can attack you without being able to attack back is nuts!

Yes, I can try to hunt them down. They also need a waiting period like Torps have before being able to attack

a Spawn area at the beginning of a match!

You can't attack a BB sniping you from 20kms.

You cant attack a cruiser radaring you behind an island.

You can't attack a DD using hydro in smoke.

 

Your memory is very convenient and somewhat hypocritical.

 

WoWs is a class based game. Every class has a weakness to another class. That is the premise of every class based multiplayer game, from Battlefield to CoD, to WoT. It's a perfectly normal game design.

You're not supposed to have a counter to every class... otherwise you might as well go play Halo or Unreal tournament where every player is identical with the same guns. Avoid class based games if this irritates you.

Edited by ElectroVeeDub
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3 minutes ago, RyuuohD_NA said:

Ahh this useless rhetoric again.

Just because you cannot hit the main hull of the CV doesn't mean you can't reduce the CV's capability to deal damage to you.

 Talk about useless rhetoric.    Killing planes does not equal being killed and never being able to influence the match again. 

Edited by eviltane
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1 minute ago, ElectroVeeDub said:

WoWs is a class based game.

Wrong,

Every Dev will remind you... WOWS is a position based game... NOT a class based one.

 

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2 minutes ago, ElectroVeeDub said:

You can't attack a BB sniping you from 20kms.

You cant attack a cruiser radaring you behind an island.

You can't attack a DD using hydro in smoke.

 

WoWs is a class based game. Every class has a weakness to another class. That is the premis ove every class based multiplayer game, from Battlefield to CoD, to WoT. It's a perfectly normal game design.

You're not supposed to have a counter to every class... otherwise you might as well go play Halo or Unreal tournament where every player is identical with the same guns. Avoid class based games if this irritates you.

b-bUt u cAn aTtAcK bAcKLiNinG BBs, iSLanD-cAmPinG crUiSerS aNd sMoKe cAmPinG DDs!!11!!! CVs aRe nOne oF tHoSE bCuz enDLeSS pLaEnZ tHaT u Can'T coUntEr!!@!!1!

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Just now, Navalpride33 said:

Wrong,

Every Dev will remind you... WOWS is a position based game... NOT a class based one.

 

WoWs is not a class based game?

That's some powerful stuff you're smoking. :)

You're not supposed to be able to kill everything with ease. It's totally normal. By your admission, you should be able to outgun a cruiser with a DD huh?

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8 minutes ago, Mephiztopheleze said:

please share. because right now I just get utterly obliterated nine times out of ten as soon as some CV player just keeps me spotted.

I find how I position myself in relation to the attacking aircraft. helps alot

  • stay as broadside as you can to rockets then turn in as the plans launch, seems to cause a good percentage of misses high/long
  • turn directly toward or away from bombers (except for British ones)  and torp planes,  seems to cause more bomb misses and puts you in the best position for torp beats.
  • stay broadside to British bombers.  The carpet bomb mechanic is a long thin-ish ellipse and turning broadside to the attack again seems to generate less hits.

yes planes will keep you spotted inviting the entire OPFOR to open up on you.   no mitigation to that, turn off you AA, duck and dodge until you break detection.    With CVs in the air you will be forced to retreat.   Don't be resistant to that.   Fall back, give up the cap then come back and work to do your thing again.

Also, while being focused by a CV sucks, no doubt about that, don't discount the value of keeping its/their attention.   An example is a game I had last night, where a T8 CV kept trying to take out me and another Shinonomie.   We took a beating and were both shut down but we survived and it allowed DDs on the opposite flank free reign which resulted in a win for us.

T4 games are another matter and does need to be address because of the excessive number of CVs (regularly 3 per side per game) but at T5-6+ CVs are a pain but there are ways to mitigate their impact when driving a DD.

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6 minutes ago, RyuuohD_NA said:

Ahh this useless rhetoric again.

Just because you cannot hit the main hull of the CV doesn't mean you can't reduce the CV's capability to deal damage to you. 

Think of it this way, 8k plane DMG is not the same as 8k Hull DMG..

The main issue with the game IMO is

  • The disproportionate and deregulation of DMG recived and DMG dealt of every ship HP/class regardless of size.

The "spreadsheet" dont account for that...

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8 minutes ago, RyuuohD_NA said:

Just because you cannot hit the main hull of the CV doesn't mean you can't reduce the CV's capability to deal damage to you.

But most of us do not play the game so that we can reduce the damage done to us. We play to do damage to the enemy.  If your entire game is spent in torpedo beats, dodging like mad while spotted, with no ability to strike back (most DDs have pathetic AA), then suddenly washing the dishes becomes a way more fun option.

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