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Bortt

Fuel: as a way to balance CV's

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Anyone ever thought of giving carrier plans fuel or a time limit in the air as a way to balance CV's? This would prevent them from lingering and looking for less visible targets like DD's and then lingering over DD smoke screens. It would be another factor to balance various nations as well.

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2 minutes ago, Bortt said:

Anyone ever thought of giving carrier plans fuel or a time limit in the air as a way to balance CV's? This would prevent them from lingering and looking for less visible targets like DD's and then lingering over DD smoke screens. It would be another factor to balance various nations as well.

Lol think it has been mentioned before. 

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Already been suggested many times before, always shot down (mostly because it would either make the mechanic ‘too complex to understand’ or would take too much to program with too little actual impact on the game)

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Planes already have a limited fuel (a countdown timer) if the carrier is sunk.

If they can return to the carrier, they can refuel and re-arm.

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This topic begs the question, "Why can't one player's CV get sunk and an allied CV be used to re-fuel and re-arm the remaining planes until they're all shot down?"

(Answer:  Would have to be a compatible nation's CV which will be equipped with compatible ordnance, if it were allowed in game at all.)

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The actual planes of history could fly for several hours on internal tanks and could fly even longer if equipped with drop-tanks for additional fuel.

The 20 minute match is over before aircraft would *ever* run out of fuel.

Fuel isn't the problem.
Repenishing a plane's ordnance after making an attack already limits plane activity and AA of high tier ships already shreds plane squadrons.

"Git gud".

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22 minutes ago, Bortt said:

Anyone ever thought of giving carrier plans fuel or a time limit in the air as a way to balance CV's? This would prevent them from lingering and looking for less visible targets like DD's and then lingering over DD smoke screens. It would be another factor to balance various nations as well.

 

CRY MORE. CRY LOUDER. How about ammo limits for those DD's you speak of. Doubt they had endless torps or ammo. And before you respond to this just know I play DD's as a main now since the endless nerf's of CV's.

 

 

Frosty

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There was a fuel limit for planes back in alpha but it was pulled because it had no real impact on the game. Remember our battles are more like the Action off Samar than normal surface or aerial combat where the plane could fly for an hour or more to get to their target. The carrier planes all had ranges in excess of 700 nautical miles so even allowing for linger or for fighters combat time 200 to 250 NM was a reasonable combat distance. Here it is more like ten NM to the target.

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CVs are exceptionally weak right now, and AA is still broken overall.  Far too much of a difference between stacked AA ships and lacking AA ships.  Changes need reverted to pre-boost nerf and then AA actually given some decent thought into it.  Until it becomes a true PvP mechanic with some teeth, it will continue to be a participation trophy mechanic that's broken.  They're going the same route with subs so far.  It's often said that the players lack the skills to handle such, yet they put in insanely complicated bounce / shatter / angling mechanics combined with a shot spread pattern that's a joke, often referred to as RNG.  I wouldn't mind an actual random system, but too many of the "misses" couldn't be more intentional if you manually set out to not hit a ship.  When 90% of a reticle is covering the target and all rounds magically end up in the 10% realm -- that's not random.

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1 hour ago, Bortt said:

Anyone ever thought of giving carrier plans fuel or a time limit in the air as a way to balance CV's? This would prevent them from lingering and looking for less visible targets like DD's and then lingering over DD smoke screens. It would be another factor to balance various nations as well.

I assure you, it's come up.

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45 minutes ago, KAAOS_Frosty said:

 

CRY MORE. CRY LOUDER. How about ammo limits for those DD's you speak of. Doubt they had endless torps or ammo. And before you respond to this just know I play DD's as a main now since the endless nerf's of CV's.

Yeah, most of those DDs didn't have torp reloads.

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1 hour ago, Bortt said:

Anyone ever thought of giving carrier plans fuel or a time limit in the air as a way to balance CV's? This would prevent them from lingering and looking for less visible targets like DD's and then lingering over DD smoke screens. It would be another factor to balance various nations as well.

With the subs coming soon, the aircraft will have a need to loiter.

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35 minutes ago, NoSoMo said:

CVs are exceptionally weak right now, and AA is still broken overall.  Far too much of a difference between stacked AA ships and lacking AA ships.  Changes need reverted to pre-boost nerf and then AA actually given some decent thought into it.  Until it becomes a true PvP mechanic with some teeth, it will continue to be a participation trophy mechanic that's broken.  They're going the same route with subs so far.  It's often said that the players lack the skills to handle such, yet they put in insanely complicated bounce / shatter / angling mechanics combined with a shot spread pattern that's a joke, often referred to as RNG.  I wouldn't mind an actual random system, but too many of the "misses" couldn't be more intentional if you manually set out to not hit a ship.  When 90% of a reticle is covering the target and all rounds magically end up in the 10% realm -- that's not random.

Is AA really that weak or are people comparing it to the RTS days when a CV could gob smack all but a few ships or to patch 8.5 which made even weak AA ships a struggle to attack? Either way is a false expectation.

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40 minutes ago, NoSoMo said:

CVs are exceptionally weak right now....

I don't know about that.  The average damage for CVs is slowly but surely climbing back towards where it was before the changes to buff AA a few patches ago.

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Another CV balance thread. Been a long time since we seen one of these.

2oDMSK7.gif

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4 minutes ago, xalmgrey said:

Another CV balance thread. Been a long time since we seen one of these.

2oDMSK7.gif

This time next year we might be talking about “another sub balance thread” :Smile_trollface:

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1 minute ago, Mailman653 said:

This time next year we might be talking about “another sub balance thread” :Smile_trollface:

Subs can be killed where "they are" where as CV are arty hidden in the back.

I don't think we will ever see the end of the CV threads as long as CV can kill people from a distance without taking something in return.

But hey here's to hoping because i'm tired of this song. It's old.

 

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Planes are already balanced. Instead of trying to nerf everything else, try buffing yourself. 

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12 minutes ago, xalmgrey said:

Subs can be killed where "they are" where as CV are arty hidden in the back.

I don't think we will ever see the end of the CV threads as long as CV can kill people from a distance without taking something in return.

There's regular threads complaining about ALL of the classes vs each other......
-too many torps
-too much HE
-lobbing shells over islands
-radar, etc...

At this point those still complaining about CVs will clearly never be happy no matter what is done to them.  The fact that siroco can fire AA nonstop for 12 minutes straight doing less than 16k damage while shooting down 5 planes, whereas a DM can do the same damage in ~20 seconds shooting down aircraft nonstop means balance is very far from being achieved.  Anti CV people won't be happy until the ship will, all by itself with zero user input, shoot down a CV's munition dispensers entirely thus creating a no fly zone around them.  The fact that such capability exists (participation mechanics that award points for simply hitting battle) shows there's much work to do.  

I won't be happy piloting a CV until players must control their own AA, and I won't be happy as a non CV until I can control the AA and it awards damages and kills properly, while taking the current difference between weakest AA and strongest AA from a factor of 60 to a factor of 5-6, while overlapping AA is reduced to a MAX of 250% of a yet-to-be-determined max limit.  The end result being that lemming death balls provide zero advantage while at the same time beast AA ships get partial rewards as that 250% max limit causes the total damage to be evenly spread among all ships providing AA.  Such tactic would see AA ships avoid lemming death balls since they're getting a small fraction of the award they'd normally get providing AA activities. 

Edited by NoSoMo

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2 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

This topic begs the question, "Why can't one player's CV get sunk and an allied CV be used to re-fuel and re-arm the remaining planes until they're all shot down?"

(Answer:  Would have to be a compatible nation's CV which will be equipped with compatible ordnance, if it were allowed in game at all.)

Since you ask... a better alternative would be the planes landing at a nearby naval air BASE where they could RR and return to the battle. 

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1 hour ago, KAAOS_Frosty said:

How about ammo limits for those DD's you speak of. Doubt they had endless torps or ammo. And before you respond to this just know I play DD's as a main now since the endless nerf's of CV's.

?????

In the 0.8 patches (about %80 of them), have nerfs to torps...

Have Nerfs to flooding AND liquidator achievement has been taken away from the game...

The avg time for a tier 10 torp DD main to attack a red fleet is 3 mins... In those same 3 min,a tier 10 BBs AP can sink 4 cruisers.

The torp nerf not only affected surface ships... But CVs as well...

Meanwhile all other DMG have been buffed to intolerable lvls... So I really dont understand why your insistence torps have infinite attack compare to other types of DMGes in the game...

 

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2 hours ago, KAAOS_Frosty said:

 

CRY MORE. CRY LOUDER. How about ammo limits for those DD's you speak of. Doubt they had endless torps or ammo. And before you respond to this just know I play DD's as a main now since the endless nerf's of CV's.

 

 

Frosty

Most nations could not re-arm torpedo tubes in the middle of battle. Only the IJN could, IIRC, and even then it wasn't a good idea; see what happened to the Chokai when a lucky shell from the White Plains exploded close enough to her torpedo tubes.

Most had one load of torpedoes and the only way they would rearm would be back at port or at a supply ship.

Guess that means since anti-CV players are always crying about how 'unrealistic' CVs are implemented in the game that they want torpedo armed ships to only have one shot per launcher and have to rely on their guns the rest of the match. I'm sure the IJN torpedo boat players would love that.

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3 hours ago, Bortt said:

Anyone ever thought of giving carrier plans fuel or a time limit in the air

They have and have always had a fuel limit it is just not stated. In the pre rework era any planes in the air when the CV was sunk would loiter where they were until shot down or ran out of fuel.

If a stricter limit were imposed it should apply to all planes and ships.

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3 hours ago, Bortt said:

Anyone ever thought of giving carrier plans fuel or a time limit in the air as a way to balance CV's? This would prevent them from lingering and looking for less visible targets like DD's and then lingering over DD smoke screens. It would be another factor to balance various nations as well.

Limited fuel is abstractly modeled by only allowing one active squadron airborne at a time.  Think of a loitering squadron  as an abstraction for multiple  search mission where one squadron replaces another squadron when the fuel gets low.  Although the CV captain is only controlling one squadron, the CV captain is committed exclusively to the search effort; he can't do anything else.  The CV captain can drop a fighter, but they DO have loiter times limits.

 

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