Jump to content
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
dimzzy

RN cruisers regrind: very disappointed

36 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

175
[-1]
Members
406 posts
7,132 battles

I'm at Edinburgh now and this ship is a disaster. I remember I liked Fiji--not anymore. Let me give you a few recent examples why:

1) I'm sitting in the cap taking it for my team when red Mogador slides in. She stops 4km in front of me and does not even bother to fire guns. All my AP shells quickly saturate her nose and she stops taking damage (thank you WG for splitting French DDs in sections that saturate independently). After torps are ready (and they reload fast) she moves in and torps me in the face, not even turning because torp angles are almost 360% on this ship. If I'd tried to turn and disengage I would be dead in seconds because of her guns AP with reload booster. How am I supposed to counter this? I'm a cruiser that can't kill a DD now.

2) Red Friesland goes behind our team; I promptly turn and rush this guy. He smokes 10km away from me and while I'm closing distance to use my hydro she literally melts me. I used DCP and heal but she sets me on fire with almost every salvo. I was burning so fast that I had no time to shoot back. Just few blind shells and that's it. How am I supposed to hunt this DD? She has more firepower and I think even without smoke I would melt sooner than Friesland.

3) I try to dodge planes and use priority sector for AA. But Lexington's rocket planes are so strong that they can attack me three times and take away half of my HP in half a minute. RN cruisers are excellent targets for tier 8 CVs. How am I supposed to help my team if I can't even defend myself?

And of course usual stuff--you have limited gun range, no option to start fires, floaty shells which DDs can dodge beyond 10km range, BBs that kill you with single salvo. And now we have more CVs that laugh at you and DDs that laugh at you even more. I guess only Minotaur will be somewhat fun but the rest of the line is pretty much a big disappointment for me right now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,407
[-K-]
Members
4,958 posts
16,302 battles
7 minutes ago, dimzzy said:

1) I'm sitting in the cap taking it for my team when red Mogador slides in. She stops 4km in front of me and does not even bother to fire guns. All my AP shells quickly saturate her nose and she stops taking damage (thank you WG for splitting French DDs in sections that saturate independently). After torps are ready (and they reload fast) she moves in and torps me in the face, not even turning because torp angles are almost 360% on this ship. If I'd tried to turn and disengage I would be dead in seconds because of her guns AP with reload booster. How am I supposed to counter this? I'm a cruiser that can't kill a DD now.

Putting aside that this was with a two-tier difference, what was wrong with smoking up and turning? You have hydro and he doesn't. Stop shooting so you don't get smokefire spotted.

10 minutes ago, dimzzy said:

2) Red Friesland goes behind our team; I promptly turn and rush this guy. He smokes 10km away from me and while I'm closing distance to use my hydro she literally melts me. I used DCP and heal but she sets me on fire with almost every salvo. I was burning so fast that I had no time to shoot back. Just few blind shells and that's it. How am I supposed to hunt this DD? She has more firepower and I think even without smoke I would melt sooner than Friesland.

How was he spotting you from smoke? Were you shooting? STOP SHOOTING and he'll be stuck in smoke with no torps, a hydro cruiser charging, potential torps incoming (yours), and a critical need for his brown pants. If something else was close enough to light you when not firing, that was the higher priority in any case.

13 minutes ago, dimzzy said:

3) I try to dodge planes and use priority sector for AA. But Lexington's rocket planes are so strong that they can attack me three times and take away half of my HP in half a minute. RN cruisers are excellent targets for tier 8 CVs. How am I supposed to help my team if I can't even defend myself?

Yeeeeeeah, good luck with that one. Mid-tier AA is undertuned across the board right now.

 

  • Cool 2
  • Funny 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,714
[SSG]
Alpha Tester
4,593 posts
10,811 battles
30 minutes ago, dimzzy said:

3) I try to dodge planes and use priority sector for AA. But Lexington's rocket planes are so strong that they can attack me three times and take away half of my HP in half a minute. RN cruisers are excellent targets for tier 8 CVs. How am I supposed to help my team if I can't even defend myself?

AA right now is at best, a complex situation. Tier 3 right now is flat out screwed. 4-10 depends on what ship your in, what tier the CV is, and what CV it is. I don't know what Edi is like at the moment but it's never been an AA powerhouse. Neptune and Mino always have been, and are as good or better than they were under RTS. Their AA is pretty OP. And because of the way the changes were done, they now have way better AA than Des/Salem. Some other ships are flat out broken in AA power too, especially vs a -2 CV. That said, other side of the coin Kaga vs tier 6 is so blatantly unfair it's not even funny as most, if not all, lack the AA to really make a dent in her attack groups. And other cases of tier 8 or 10 being able to just pick on ships because lower tier. 

 

Other than the fact Des/Salem and Atlanta are suddenly not AA monsters, maybe even a tad underpowered in AA, and a few other exceptions - AA is still pretty much he same as RTS right now. Some ships are god, others are easy prey, and it heavily depends what tier you are and what tier the CV is. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
175
[-1]
Members
406 posts
7,132 battles
7 minutes ago, Edgecase said:

Putting aside that this was with a two-tier difference, what was wrong with smoking up and turning? You have hydro and he doesn't. Stop shooting so you don't get smokefire spotted.

How was he spotting you from smoke? Were you shooting? STOP SHOOTING and he'll be stuck in smoke with no torps, a hydro cruiser charging, potential torps incoming (yours), and a critical need for his brown pants. If something else was close enough to light you when not firing, that was the higher priority in any case.

Yeeeeeeah, good luck with that one. Mid-tier AA is undertuned across the board right now.

 

Smoke was on cooldown but even if I smoke up he can just move closer. At 2km I still will be hitting saturated nose and if I decide to turn to use my torps I had to show a lot of broadside before launching torps.

With Friesland I was firing several times blind because at this range I should be landing some shells. What really amused me is the insane fire chance and the rate at which my HP was dwindling. He set me on two fires while we traded initial shots in the open and after using my DCP and heal he set me on three fires before I had a chance to get undetected. I was maybe 70% healthy but I became almost dead before going undetected. This is exactly what was insane about this encounter: few opening volleys and you are burning, then few more from smoke and you are burning even more. After that you leave the smoke and just finish almost dead cruiser.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
520 posts
4,837 battles
30 minutes ago, dimzzy said:

Smoke was on cooldown but even if I smoke up he can just move closer. At 2km I still will be hitting saturated nose and if I decide to turn to use my torps I had to show a lot of broadside before launching torps.

With Friesland I was firing several times blind because at this range I should be landing some shells. What really amused me is the insane fire chance and the rate at which my HP was dwindling. He set me on two fires while we traded initial shots in the open and after using my DCP and heal he set me on three fires before I had a chance to get undetected. I was maybe 70% healthy but I became almost dead before going undetected. This is exactly what was insane about this encounter: few opening volleys and you are burning, then few more from smoke and you are burning even more. After that you leave the smoke and just finish almost dead cruiser.

 

Yeah with the Mog you were hosed either way. Even British AP doesn’t do much on the saturated parts and I would have rushed with torps and switch to guns if I were him. Smoking wouldn’t have saved you. The Friesland is a different story. If you’re not fast enough to close quickly or are already spotted they have the advantage. Friesland hydro is good and AP is good up close. Running might have saved you but probably not quick enough. But those are two tier higher ships and to be honest, if played well, should be able to handle you by their design. Take solace in knowing a lot of people haven’t figured out how to play the French DDs yet.

Edited by KnifeInUrNeck

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,507
[RKLES]
Members
10,756 posts
12,383 battles

Sadly Wargaming has some work to do since some of the latest ships have severely power creeped many existing ships. And the danger of joining the ranks of French DD players is when Wargaming realizes their mistakes they will nerf them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
125
Beta Testers
634 posts
1,698 battles

I feel like power creep hurt RN CLs more than any other line in the game.

It's just not safe to be in smoke anymore, which was their big thing, and the excuse for being so fragile. On top of that, they don't even have the highest RoF anymore, and the ships with higher have HE to boot. They just don't have much of a unique identity anymore, besides being fast firing, fragile, AP shooters, and that's just not enough anymore.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,247
[FML]
Members
3,165 posts
13,512 battles
2 hours ago, dimzzy said:

I'm at Edinburgh now and this ship is a disaster. I remember I liked Fiji--not anymore. Let me give you a few recent examples why:

1) I'm sitting in the cap taking it for my team when red Mogador slides in. She stops 4km in front of me and does not even bother to fire guns. All my AP shells quickly saturate her nose and she stops taking damage (thank you WG for splitting French DDs in sections that saturate independently). After torps are ready (and they reload fast) she moves in and torps me in the face, not even turning because torp angles are almost 360% on this ship. If I'd tried to turn and disengage I would be dead in seconds because of her guns AP with reload booster. How am I supposed to counter this? I'm a cruiser that can't kill a DD now.

2) Red Friesland goes behind our team; I promptly turn and rush this guy. He smokes 10km away from me and while I'm closing distance to use my hydro she literally melts me. I used DCP and heal but she sets me on fire with almost every salvo. I was burning so fast that I had no time to shoot back. Just few blind shells and that's it. How am I supposed to hunt this DD? She has more firepower and I think even without smoke I would melt sooner than Friesland.

3) I try to dodge planes and use priority sector for AA. But Lexington's rocket planes are so strong that they can attack me three times and take away half of my HP in half a minute. RN cruisers are excellent targets for tier 8 CVs. How am I supposed to help my team if I can't even defend myself?

And of course usual stuff--you have limited gun range, no option to start fires, floaty shells which DDs can dodge beyond 10km range, BBs that kill you with single salvo. And now we have more CVs that laugh at you and DDs that laugh at you even more. I guess only Minotaur will be somewhat fun but the rest of the line is pretty much a big disappointment for me right now.

So, the Fiji is a strong ship but it’s not an immediate ‘I win’ button. Any ship fighting ships two tiers higher than it are going to have a bad time. 

Plus, it sounds like you misplayed on each of those occasions. 

1) In WoWS, it’s common for an error you made five minutes earlier to only reveal itself just before you die. Re-examine what led you to be 4km away from a mogodor without an opportunity to take advantage of it. 

2) Firing at the smoke kept you lit so the Friesland could kill you. You made it super easy for him by not understanding the game mechanics.

3) Why didn’t you smoke up instead of taking three CV strikes?

The common thread in each of these seems to be you’ve forgotten what UK CLs are about: stealth. Eg, under 3) I would have been more terrified of being nailed across the map by a battleship than direct damage from the CV, so even if it was inconvenient I would have smoked up as the planes were en route - at best the CV would have got one strike in. Preserving HP to the end of the map is very beneficial, even if smoking up in an awkward place was annoying. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,176
[CTF38]
Members
4,525 posts
13,233 battles
15 minutes ago, Herr_Reitz said:

Why do I find this thread humorous? Oh yea, I know... you chose to do this. 

You took the thoughts right out of my head.

One makes a choice; one lives with the outcome.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,994
[WOLF9]
Privateers
11,551 posts
4,550 battles
3 hours ago, dimzzy said:

I'm at Edinburgh now and this ship is a disaster.

Well, not a disaster, but I feel you.  I put 46 shells into a Kidd last night and then someone else killed him with 1/3 health remaining.  RN CL AP is supposed to be hot [stuff], but you couldn't prove it by me.

 

On the other hand, you should just keep repeating "Minotaur. Minotaur" while you play Eddie.  I freekin *hate* Minotaurs.  Gotta have one.

On the other other hand, I don't recall anyone saying anything about Neptune.  Does everyone just FXP past her?

 

Edited by iDuckman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
125
Beta Testers
634 posts
1,698 battles
6 minutes ago, iDuckman said:

Well, not a disaster, but I feel you.  I put 46 shells into a Kidd last night and then someone else killed him with 1/3 health remaining.  RN CL AP is supposed to be hot [stuff], but you couldn't prove it by me.

 

On the other hand, you should just keep repeating "Minotaur. Minotaur" while you play Eddie.  I freekin *hate* Minotaurs.  Gotta have one.

On the other other hand, I don't recall anyone saying anything about Neptune.  Does everyone just FXP past her?

 

There are a surprising number of people that think Neptune is better than Mino.

IDK what they are smoking, I guess they like the range?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
550
[SHOOT]
Beta Testers
3,124 posts
10,587 battles
1 hour ago, Prkl8r said:

feel like power creep hurt RN CLs more than any other line in the game.

It's just not safe to be in smoke anymore,

You just cant pop smoke in people's faces and win.  Neither can you simply bully someone else simply because they're a different class than you. This was always but evolving tactics always trump old habits. 

Getting ambushednat point blank range by a dd has always been a death sentence unless you could detonate or torpedo him. 

In regards to smoke, RN CL smoke has always been small and easy to saturate. The best way to use it is beyind 10km.

In regards to CVs, Fiji and Edinburgh ate known for having weak AA. Last i looked, layering AA still worked. If your not layering in a CV rich environment, you have yourself to blame for being a CV magnet. Its not like British CLs have ridiculous shirt range like their usn contemporaries.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
175
[-1]
Members
406 posts
7,132 battles
1 hour ago, UltimateNewbie said:

So, the Fiji is a strong ship but it’s not an immediate ‘I win’ button. Any ship fighting ships two tiers higher than it are going to have a bad time. 

Plus, it sounds like you misplayed on each of those occasions. 

1) In WoWS, it’s common for an error you made five minutes earlier to only reveal itself just before you die. Re-examine what led you to be 4km away from a mogodor without an opportunity to take advantage of it. 

2) Firing at the smoke kept you lit so the Friesland could kill you. You made it super easy for him by not understanding the game mechanics.

3) Why didn’t you smoke up instead of taking three CV strikes?

The common thread in each of these seems to be you’ve forgotten what UK CLs are about: stealth. Eg, under 3) I would have been more terrified of being nailed across the map by a battleship than direct damage from the CV, so even if it was inconvenient I would have smoked up as the planes were en route - at best the CV would have got one strike in. Preserving HP to the end of the map is very beneficial, even if smoking up in an awkward place was annoying. 

1) I was capping B and he came to reset it; he was just sailing around the island. I was angled to avoid torps. I was in a position to shoot. The problem is that cruiser can't damage DD that sits in front of it--that's it.

2) He set me on fire before smoking up. If I won't be firing I will lose for sure. He set me on fire again by blind shots guessing my position, from the smoke. What kind of game mechanics I don't understand? That some DDs have crazy fire chance?

3) Because smoke does not last forever and the number of charges is limited.

I'm not sure what other threads you are reading but these are particular examples where cruiser does not work as a cruiser. It can't hunt DDs, it does not defend itself well against CV.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
175
[-1]
Members
406 posts
7,132 battles
9 minutes ago, Crokodone said:

You just cant pop smoke in people's faces and win.  Neither can you simply bully someone else simply because they're a different class than you. This was always but evolving tactics always trump old habits. 

Getting ambushednat point blank range by a dd has always been a death sentence unless you could detonate or torpedo him. 

Last time I played the line RN cruisers were especially good at quickly killing DDs caught at close range. They still are. The problem is that now we are getting more DDs that outperform them in firepower negating the major strength of these cruisers. Maybe they were not good at AA but there were not that many CVs; now it becomes a problem.

Yes, smoke is not a magic win button. The problem is that there are more and more ships in the game that make them ineffective.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
77
[MHG]
Members
292 posts
6,249 battles

There are several cruiser lines that are just flat out outgunned by these french DDs if you aren’t careful around them. I’ve dumped 15-20 citadels into a broadside Minotaur or Wooster faster than they can turn guns sometimes with MBRB up. They really are something to pay attention to. On the other hand RN AP doesn’t really seem super effective against a lot of ships at times either when proper angles even against DDs. That isn’t to say a well played Neptune or Minotaur can’t ravage something but the power creep is real. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
175
[-1]
Members
406 posts
7,132 battles
1 hour ago, Herr_Reitz said:

Why do I find this thread humorous? Oh yea, I know... you chose to do this. 

Says the player who hides his stats...

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
179
[WOLFB]
Beta Testers
1,101 posts
7,100 battles
4 hours ago, dimzzy said:

I'm at Edinburgh now and this ship is a disaster. I remember I liked Fiji--not anymore. Let me give you a few recent examples why:

1) I'm sitting in the cap taking it for my team when red Mogador slides in. She stops 4km in front of me and does not even bother to fire guns. All my AP shells quickly saturate her nose and she stops taking damage (thank you WG for splitting French DDs in sections that saturate independently). After torps are ready (and they reload fast) she moves in and torps me in the face, not even turning because torp angles are almost 360% on this ship. If I'd tried to turn and disengage I would be dead in seconds because of her guns AP with reload booster. How am I supposed to counter this? I'm a cruiser that can't kill a DD now.

2) Red Friesland goes behind our team; I promptly turn and rush this guy. He smokes 10km away from me and while I'm closing distance to use my hydro she literally melts me. I used DCP and heal but she sets me on fire with almost every salvo. I was burning so fast that I had no time to shoot back. Just few blind shells and that's it. How am I supposed to hunt this DD? She has more firepower and I think even without smoke I would melt sooner than Friesland.

3) I try to dodge planes and use priority sector for AA. But Lexington's rocket planes are so strong that they can attack me three times and take away half of my HP in half a minute. RN cruisers are excellent targets for tier 8 CVs. How am I supposed to help my team if I can't even defend myself?

And of course usual stuff--you have limited gun range, no option to start fires, floaty shells which DDs can dodge beyond 10km range, BBs that kill you with single salvo. And now we have more CVs that laugh at you and DDs that laugh at you even more. I guess only Minotaur will be somewhat fun but the rest of the line is pretty much a big disappointment for me right now.

Has the OP realized he is on a hamster wheel chasing a reward of stale cheese?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
175
[-1]
Members
406 posts
7,132 battles
40 minutes ago, misanthrope0 said:

Has the OP realized he is on a hamster wheel chasing a reward of stale cheese?

Maybe; I'm just very sad that I had certain expectations to have some fun but ended up hating the line I loved once...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,247
[FML]
Members
3,165 posts
13,512 battles
1 hour ago, dimzzy said:

1) I was capping B and he came to reset it; he was just sailing around the island. I was angled to avoid torps. I was in a position to shoot. The problem is that cruiser can't damage DD that sits in front of it--that's it.

2) He set me on fire before smoking up. If I won't be firing I will lose for sure. He set me on fire again by blind shots guessing my position, from the smoke. What kind of game mechanics I don't understand? That some DDs have crazy fire chance?

3) Because smoke does not last forever and the number of charges is limited.

I'm not sure what other threads you are reading but these are particular examples where cruiser does not work as a cruiser. It can't hunt DDs, it does not defend itself well against CV.

Oh, I’m sorry if you’re right and I’m wrong then you wouldn’t have underperformed so and come complaining to the forums. 

I shall now go wallow in my wrongness...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40
[ALLY]
Members
131 posts
15,745 battles
2 hours ago, iDuckman said:

Well, not a disaster, but I feel you.  I put 46 shells into a Kidd last night and then someone else killed him with 1/3 health remaining.  RN CL AP is supposed to be hot [stuff], but you couldn't prove it by me.

 

On the other hand, you should just keep repeating "Minotaur. Minotaur" while you play Eddie.  I freekin *hate* Minotaurs.  Gotta have one.

On the other other hand, I don't recall anyone saying anything about Neptune.  Does everyone just FXP past her?

 

Duckman,

I personally like both ships, but they do play differently in my opinion.  I like to keep my distance with Neptune because it has a very long detection range when firing in smoke (I believe 6 km+).  Mino is more like an oversized DD.  It can only be detected by DDs before spotting other ships.  It does have to worry about radar also because I like to bring it in closer.  I also read someone else's comment and have met similar players that prefer Neptune over Mino.  Good Luck getting Mino.

C130 signing out

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,089
[Y0L0]
Members
10,059 posts
15,076 battles

Neptune has several big weakness.  Slow turret,  Slow rudder,  Large citadel and big detection.           you can use island and smoke, but  not a strong carry bote.     

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
227
[SIMP]
Members
1,081 posts
9,535 battles
3 hours ago, iDuckman said:

Well, not a disaster, but I feel you.  I put 46 shells into a Kidd last night and then someone else killed him with 1/3 health remaining.  RN CL AP is supposed to be hot [stuff], but you couldn't prove it by me.

 

On the other hand, you should just keep repeating "Minotaur. Minotaur" while you play Eddie.  I freekin *hate* Minotaurs.  Gotta have one.

On the other other hand, I don't recall anyone saying anything about Neptune.  Does everyone just FXP past her?

 

I like the Neptune, it's a tough ship to play well in, very, VERY fragile. A good step up fro the Edi, the Mino is better, but has the same limitations.

The AP is funky on the Mino, I haven't sussed them out fully, I get lots of bounces on unexpected things.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
175
[-1]
Members
406 posts
7,132 battles
37 minutes ago, UltimateNewbie said:

Oh, I’m sorry if you’re right and I’m wrong then you wouldn’t have underperformed so and come complaining to the forums. 

I shall now go wallow in my wrongness...

you are welcome

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
227
[SIMP]
Members
1,081 posts
9,535 battles
1 hour ago, Cakeman826 said:

There are several cruiser lines that are just flat out outgunned by these french DDs if you aren’t careful around them. I’ve dumped 15-20 citadels into a broadside Minotaur or Wooster faster than they can turn guns sometimes with MBRB up. They really are something to pay attention to. On the other hand RN AP doesn’t really seem super effective against a lot of ships at times either when proper angles even against DDs. That isn’t to say a well played Neptune or Minotaur can’t ravage something but the power creep is real. 

This is what I have found with the AP, it is very finicky in angles and will bounce off the nose of DDs.

Like I said, still working out how to play it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×