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YouSatInGum

Why was Friesland's speed artificially nerfed?

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The Friesland is limited to 36 in game, but in real life had the same powerplant as Gearing while actually being several hundred to a thousand tons lighter. 

In fact, according to Navypedia.org :

Quote

Ship project history: The major difference between the Friesland class and their predecessors lay in the increased size and power of their propulsion machinery, which was identical to that of the US Gearing class; 42.8kts was attained on trials. The increase in length and displacement enabled them to carry a heavier battery of light AA guns: four single 40mm were grouped around a built-up after structure carrying the lattice mainmast, and a further two were fitted forward of the bridge.

http://www.navypedia.org/ships/netherlands/nl_dd_friesland.htm

 

While I also feel the Friesland is also unfairly penalized in concealment compared to those ships, the speed disparity is just out and out historically wrong.  The lack of an overboost option (that Gearing again has) makes this even more glaring. 

I've also noticed the stats on the Friesland aren't so great.  Considering most free xp ships start with a higher win rate and damage numbers and then tail off as more mainstream get them, Friesland numbers are likely to get worse.  This is especially true since it has a high skill floor.  Save for planes shot down, among all FXP ships past or present, Friesland has the worst numbers.... that's right....even Azuma is doing better.

I'm not going to say I haven't enjoy a lot of the games in Friesland, but knowing what the ship should have been will continue to bother me.

In the meantime, I'll hope one of two things happens.

1.  Friesland gets her rightfully deserved speed back.

2.  Another FXP ship is offered that is a little more competitive.  (I just missed getting Musashi or Linda Kron... how I wish those were offered today...)

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Initial speed trials are not done in full combat load.

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54 minutes ago, YouSatInGum said:

The Friesland is limited to 36 in game, but in real life had the same powerplant as Gearing while actually being several hundred to a thousand tons lighter. 

In fact, according to Navypedia.org :

http://www.navypedia.org/ships/netherlands/nl_dd_friesland.htm

I think it is important to remember things in this game are balanced for the game, and history, while its good to draw from will be set aside so ships can be balanced

While I also feel the Friesland is also unfairly penalized in concealment compared to those ships, the speed disparity is just out and out historically wrong.  The lack of an overboost option (that Gearing again has) makes this even more glaring. Doesn't need it if you run speed flags, it also has hydro which the gearing does not have

I've also noticed the stats on the Friesland aren't so great.  Considering most free xp ships start with a higher win rate and damage numbers and then tail off as more mainstream get them, Friesland numbers are likely to get worse.  This is especially true since it has a high skill floor.  Save for planes shot down, among all FXP ships past or present, Friesland has the worst numbers.... that's right....even Azuma is doing better. I have seen many poor players in the Freisland that simply do not know how to play it

I'm not going to say I haven't enjoy a lot of the games in Friesland, but knowing what the ship should have been will continue to bother me. The ship is fine it has its strengths and its weaknesses

In the meantime, I'll hope one of two things happens.

1.  Friesland gets her rightfully deserved speed back. Would be nice but believe this is to with balance

2.  Another FXP ship is offered that is a little more competitive.  (I just missed getting Musashi or Linda Kron... how I wish those were offered today...) The Freisland is very competitive

 

Edited by CriMiNaL__
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1 hour ago, YouSatInGum said:

I've also noticed the stats on the Friesland aren't so great. 

Thats a given, you cant do good in it if your game is cut short by bad decisions, takes a good deal of time to rack up that damage with no torps and only 4 guns, even tho the RoF is good.
 

1 hour ago, YouSatInGum said:

even Azuma is doing better

The Azuma gets alot of flak, but those guns are actually pretty nasty, I think that people really don't give it a chance before badmouthing it.

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29 minutes ago, dEsTurbed1 said:

Initial speed trials are not done in full combat load.

In reality full speed is not typically used in combat except for DD's on a torpedo run. Typically ships in formation operated at a speed that every ship in the formation could attain easily.

A match speed with friendly ships would be a nice quality of life tool.

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1 hour ago, YouSatInGum said:

The Friesland is limited to 36 in game, but in real life had the same powerplant as Gearing while actually being several hundred to a thousand tons lighter. 

In fact, according to Navypedia.org :

http://www.navypedia.org/ships/netherlands/nl_dd_friesland.htm

Sure, you can give Friesland her speed back, as soon as the USN 5"/38 is given back her historical range and RoF on all the ships that carry it...

Good luck.

i.e. it was done for gameplay reasons.  

 

Edited by agm114r

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Maybe they can put in a speed boost, at the cost of smoke, add that to a Sierra Mike and you've got your historical.

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34 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

In reality full speed is not typically used in combat except for DD's on a torpedo run. Typically ships in formation operated at a speed that every ship in the formation could attain easily.

A match speed with friendly ships would be a nice quality of life tool.

Sorry, I'm just an Air Force guy. I don't have any Navy experience.  What your saying is true, i.e. sounds right to me, but this is a video game. Although the ship models are as historical as possible,  game balance and developers liberty do effect the game.

As to the OP's post, something had to be don to give balance and "flavor" to the Friesland. 

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2 hours ago, dEsTurbed1 said:

Initial speed trials are not done in full combat load.

Aren't some of the French boat speeds in the game based on trial speeds though? 

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2 hours ago, Yoshiblue said:

Aren't some of the French boat speeds in the game based on trial speeds though? 

In some cases yes, however game balance comes before historical accuracy in the end.

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5 hours ago, dEsTurbed1 said:

Initial speed trials are not done in full combat load.

Doesn't stop them from giving trial speeds to Russian ships though.

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7 hours ago, YouSatInGum said:

The Friesland is limited to 36 in game, but in real life had the same powerplant as Gearing while actually being several hundred to a thousand tons lighter. 

In fact, according to Navypedia.org :

http://www.navypedia.org/ships/netherlands/nl_dd_friesland.htm

 

While I also feel the Friesland is also unfairly penalized in concealment compared to those ships, the speed disparity is just out and out historically wrong.  The lack of an overboost option (that Gearing again has) makes this even more glaring. 

I've also noticed the stats on the Friesland aren't so great.  Considering most free xp ships start with a higher win rate and damage numbers and then tail off as more mainstream get them, Friesland numbers are likely to get worse.  This is especially true since it has a high skill floor.  Save for planes shot down, among all FXP ships past or present, Friesland has the worst numbers.... that's right....even Azuma is doing better.

I'm not going to say I haven't enjoy a lot of the games in Friesland, but knowing what the ship should have been will continue to bother me.

In the meantime, I'll hope one of two things happens.

1.  Friesland gets her rightfully deserved speed back.

2.  Another FXP ship is offered that is a little more competitive.  (I just missed getting Musashi or Linda Kron... how I wish those were offered today...)

The ship is one big nerf. Here is my visual reference of this ship.

Friesland, brought to you by the wood widdlers association.

whittle.jpg

Edited by nastydamnanimal

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6 hours ago, agm114r said:

Sure, you can give Friesland her speed back, as soon as the USN 5"/38 is given back her historical range and RoF on all the ships that carry it...

Good luck.

i.e. it was done for gameplay reasons.  

 

No gun in the game gets it's historic range as WG would be having to build maps quadruple the size of every existing map (one hour battles anyone?)

On the other hand, balistics wise, it wouldn't hurt the game if every 5/38 mount had at least a 4 second reload and more potent AA performance.

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8 hours ago, Sweaty_Anime_Girls said:

Because the all natural, organic nerf was too expensive.

Probably the first time I thought "I wish I posted that" on this forum. *hat tip*

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3 hours ago, Lert said:

Doesn't stop them from giving trial speeds to Russian ships though.

Is balans comrade! 

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The speed and concealment were "nerfed" because if they weren't the Friesland would rip other DDs apart, more than it does already.  

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1 hour ago, Crokodone said:

No gun in the game gets it's historic range as WG would be having to build maps quadruple the size of every existing map (one hour battles anyone?)

On the other hand, balistics wise, it wouldn't hurt the game if every 5/38 mount had at least a 4 second reload and more potent AA performance.

My point was really, if he wants historic stats on his new toy, it should be applied to everything...or not done at all.

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45 minutes ago, agm114r said:

My point was really, if he wants historic stats on his new toy, it should be applied to everything...or not done at all.

This i utterly and totally agree and would love...

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10 hours ago, dEsTurbed1 said:

Initial speed trials are not done in full combat load.

Tashkent gets her speed trial speed as her base max when she didn't even have any turrets mounted, but Shimakaze did her trials with all weapons mounted and does not get her trial speed (39.5 knots, attained 41 knots in trials) without the flag.

Cases like this and Freisland are just developer bias.

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5 hours ago, Lert said:

Doesn't stop them from giving trial speeds to Russian ships though.

Russians mostly adhere to trials conducted at normal loading and power conditions, it's just that they regularly significantly exceeded their design speeds for destroyers in these conditions. The real anomalies are French ships, which are given speeds that they only actually got at lower than normal loading and at overload power(sometimes by a great deal). Most of these ships were IRL actually slower than the Russian ships.

4 minutes ago, KiyoSenkan said:

Tashkent gets her speed trial speed as her base max when she didn't even have any turrets mounted, but Shimakaze did her trials with all weapons mounted and does not get her trial speed (39.5 knots, attained 41 knots in trials) without the flag.

Cases like this and Freisland are just developer bias.

Blah blah Tashkent was loaded as if her weapons were fitted blah blah the whole point of builders trials is to test that the ship performs as specified which would be pointless were it under weight blah blah you're not going to listen or care so why do I even bother?

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22 minutes ago, Aetreus said:

Blah blah Tashkent was loaded as if her weapons were fitted blah blah the whole point of builders trials is to test that the ship performs as specified which would be pointless were it under weight blah blah you're not going to listen or care so why do I even bother?

Even if Tashkent was loaded with ballast/cargo to "simulate" gun turrets, why was she given her trial speed when other ships tested in similar conditions are not?

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The real point of my original post was that when Friesland fell out of the testing tree, it hit a few too many nerf branches on the the way down.  In the past they have kept some historically accurate features that out perform all other ships in their class.  For example, if Des Moines Class didn't really ROF 8" rounds every 5.5 seconds then I doubt that would have made it into the game. 

However, my main point is the boat was over nerfed.  The numbers on the fan stat pages are saying this.  Some people here are saying the boat does fine, or they say it does fine when played correctly.... Well I think you can say that for most ships except for the worst.  When you look a the numbers they say on average, it's not doing so hot.  You know what, I can play the boat in a selfish way and beat the average numbers most of time.  I won't be contesting caps or spotting for other and other stuff that helps win games but I can play to preserve myself and rack of damage and do well.  Or I can go contest caps and do the things that help the team but with below average speed and much below average concealment it's a crap shoot.  Sometimes I do well and rip up DDs.... sometimes I get spotted before I can spot and I don't have enough speed to make up the gap which often doesn't end well.  Or I can lay back and HE Spam BB's my way up to a 100k+ damage game, but isn't that what all the BB drivers have been [edited] about lately?

Long story short the boat is situational which is another way of saying it is not particularly versatile.  It is lagging in 2 major core DD performance stats, speed and concealment.  As long as this is the case, there will be better choices for the traditional role.  Maybe that is just way the it is, but if that is so, then when I don't act like a normal DD, I want to educate folks before the nasty text chats pop up about not capping and such.

Edited by YouSatInGum

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21 hours ago, YouSatInGum said:

The Friesland is limited to 36 in game, but in real life had the same powerplant as Gearing while actually being several hundred to a thousand tons lighter. 

In fact, according to Navypedia.org :

http://www.navypedia.org/ships/netherlands/nl_dd_friesland.htm

 

While I also feel the Friesland is also unfairly penalized in concealment compared to those ships, the speed disparity is just out and out historically wrong.  The lack of an overboost option (that Gearing again has) makes this even more glaring. 

I've also noticed the stats on the Friesland aren't so great.  Considering most free xp ships start with a higher win rate and damage numbers and then tail off as more mainstream get them, Friesland numbers are likely to get worse.  This is especially true since it has a high skill floor.  Save for planes shot down, among all FXP ships past or present, Friesland has the worst numbers.... that's right....even Azuma is doing better.

I'm not going to say I haven't enjoy a lot of the games in Friesland, but knowing what the ship should have been will continue to bother me.

In the meantime, I'll hope one of two things happens.

1.  Friesland gets her rightfully deserved speed back.

2.  Another FXP ship is offered that is a little more competitive.  (I just missed getting Musashi or Linda Kron... how I wish those were offered today...)

Because it doesn't wear the Red Star that adds 6-8 knts top speed

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