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War182

The Kleber

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CAN"T TAKE A HIT ....... And who's idea was no long range AA ??? I love the torps , speed and reload concumable . But it has big problems HE 50% break rate 2 volleys your dead. Speed tank only worked for KHAB when it got a heal and the Kleber has no heal ,,But it should . Turret speed sucks , Concealment is 7.0k Really ??? . My ideas is a small  buff concealment under 7.0 ...and give it a crappy heal like the Daring . Than take some dam off the torps . We need 17 point's in it to be playable . and still it's not very fun with CV 's laughting at you and dd's out spotting you every time . Than you have no chance to recover from a big hit thats alway on it's way ...... So please take anthor look at the 9 and 10 dd's

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Why don't you like the french light cruisers?  Sure they call it a DD, but it's a cruiser with mediocre guns and high speed.  I think WG just really doesn't like the french.  Granted some USSR DDs aren't very good, but they do have a host of consumables that allow you to break detection and heal back some of the battle damage (not to mention what they've done with paper ships and radar ranges, a tech they didn't posses at the time).  Unfortunately for the French line, they give up pretty much everything that makes a DD, a DD, just for a little extra speed.  

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The problem is lack of LR and the need for Heal like that of the Daring would make this DD (8-10) more enjoyable to play with.

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Every DD suffers module breaks from the slightest HE caress.

French DDs are not unique in that regard, my Daring suffers chronic module loss to. What you may be noticing is that the French DD is more reliant on the speed as mitigation so engine loss hits your main mitigation more than say a Daring which relies also on smoke and a heal.

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I just got a kleber but havn't ran a random battle in it yet with my 19pt Philippe captain still in retraining, but coming from the Mogador where I had lots of good games if Kleber is like her t9 predecessor she's pretty good and I accept that it needs some counter play aka CVs you need to use a combination of speed, islands or their smoke to mask your approach, and mbrb to play the successful ambush predatory gunboat playstyle on enemy DDs. 

I have an issue with the ship the guns turn a bit too slowly, all I ask of WG is to buff the turret traverse speed like shaving a few seconds off its 180º turn time.

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Kleber is basically Mogador v1.1.  Slightly faster guns and +2 torpedoes compared to Mogador... That's Kleber in a nutshell.  I would hope people's time in Le Fantasque and Mogador would have shown what Kleber would be like.

 

Matter of fact OP, a lot of those complaints you got about Kleber, those exist in the prior tiers of FR DDs, especially Tier V and up.  That should have clued you in on what Kleber would be like, because they all are consistent in those qualities.

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Kleber is a fine ship, and really shines at the end of a game when speed and positioning are crucial.   It suffers from one, being a new ship class and everyone focuses on you, and two tier 10 is riddled with brokenly accurate ships that pack a wallop.  No BB should be able to hit you with 5 shells at 17k, yet here we are.

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Kleber is a better Mogador, trouble is, the enemies at tier 10 get better to!

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Aren’t the French DDs supposed to have some hit mitigation or damage saturation (?) that’s supposed to make them more survivable?  Is anyone noticing it at all? 

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4 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Kleber is basically Mogador v1.1.  Slightly faster guns and +2 torpedoes compared to Mogador... That's Kleber in a nutshell.  I would hope people's time in Le Fantasque and Mogador would have shown what Kleber would be like.

 

Matter of fact OP, a lot of those complaints you got about Kleber, those exist in the prior tiers of FR DDs, especially Tier V and up.  That should have clued you in on what Kleber would be like, because they all are consistent in those qualities.

I can't agree with that 100%.  You can play the FR DDs up through tier 8 as a more traditional DD should you wish to.  A lot of people from what i seen wont have CE yet and with your concealment being ok with CE, you can fly in and crush someone and fly out. not to mention the firepower difference compared to high tiers. 6.4km concealment at tier 8 isn't great, but with that speed, you can quickly close on any DD.  Top tier can be pretty disgusting against many of those tier 6s and 7s that may not have CE yet.  The concealment buffer for using torps was fairly nice too. 

 

Tier 9 is where that is no longer possible.  You have DDs with 5.4km concealment that can spot you a long ways out.  Pretty much every DD that isn't in the khaba line or gumo(is 6.4?) has about 1km concealment if not better over you.  Add in the better players, firepower, far worse concealment combined with less of a buffer with your torp range, and the above playstyle not being viable anymore then you can see why some people are having issues.  Things like cyclones can really hamper you, as you are traveling so fast, you may bump into the enemy before you have time to turn away.

 

With all that said, i have been enjoying the FR DDs.   As i am getting use to this new playstyle for the mogador, i am doing better with it.  I am not sure either Mog or Kleb need a buff.  maybe something like turret traverse will make QoL better without being a massive boost in performance like a heal would be. 

 

3 hours ago, BarneyStyle said:

Kleber is a fine ship, and really shines at the end of a game when speed and positioning are crucial.   It suffers from one, being a new ship class and everyone focuses on you, and two tier 10 is riddled with brokenly accurate ships that pack a wallop.  No BB should be able to hit you with 5 shells at 17k, yet here we are.

how often are you being hit at 17km by numerous BB shells, especially in a FR DD?   The slightest change in course or speed in a DD will throw the shells off vs most BBs.  Even against rail guns, doing any change in course can throw them off unless they perfectly predicted where you would go at that range.

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Most people just haven’t figured out how to play T9 and T10 French DDs. I had the pleasure of getting the Mogador in my second “bundle” so 2k doubloons for a premium skin and early access to learn it before others. By the time Kleber came out I had almost a million XP on it. 

Mogador was my favorite ship in the game. Kleber is even better. If you you’re getting hit by BBs, stop sailing in a straight line. I rarely eat a BB she’ll because I never stop and stay at mid range unless I’m ambushing for a dev strike. No other DD can win in a 1 v 1 with a good Kleber captain. Freislands go down in 4 salvos. Gearing and daring? The same. Haru? Same. The Russians can soak more damage but can’t outrun a Kleber. The flat ballistics allow you to hit at range while other loftier shells flying in on you are easy to dodge. The concealment penalty can be easily overcome with RPF. I cap all the time in my Kleber. Let the other DDs come and spot me. I know where they are and can close the gap. If they shoot first it’s even easier. I dare them to shoot at me. RPF also lets me know where torps are likely coming from but if you can’t dodge torps in a French DD you’re doing it wrong. 

And can we talk about her torps? Anyone that would prefer longer range, slower, and easier to detect torps doesn’t get how easy they are to dodge by most skilled captains. Now look at Klebers....75 kts. That’s with about a minute and a half reload and bow to stern torp angles. You can fire them almost directly in front of you. Is it starting to click? 54.4 kts + damage reduction + fast torps + forward facing angles = death of any BB out of position or island camping. That DD you’re fighting just smoke up? Flush him out or kill him with 12 torpedoes. The damage reduction works fine if you’re not being a potato and eating BB and cruiser shells. It’s absolutely devastating against other DDs. That’s where it shines. It’s not for rushing Smolensks(although you could cit nuke them if you sneak up and they’re distracted. Kleber and Mog AP cits light cruisers nice) or Conqs. And it doesn’t kick in until your center Hull is dead anyway. So it’s tankier at lower health after the Hull is saturated and then that area takes 50% damage. Other DDs die when center hull hits zero, not Kleber. 

Its only real weakness I see is lack of AA. T10 CV games can be miserable in a Mog or Kleber. Keep in mind it took me about 150k do for things to click. Prior to that I kind of hated her but I knew it was me and not the boat. I saw another post where the guy said you need to be audacious in the high tier French DDs and he is spot on. RPF, priority target, and last stand are must haves. I don’t sail any other DDs really as I find the fast and potentially devastating style of play to be awesome. They play like no other ships in the game. They’re cruisers spamming HE when they want to be and they’re DDs nuking BBs when they want to be. They can quickly traverse the map to handle pesky DDs or reinforce weak sides. And when subs come, I won’t mind having the fastest DD in the game. 

Edited by KnifeInUrNeck
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8 minutes ago, KnifeInUrNeck said:

Its only real weakness I see is lack of AA. T10 CV games can be miserable in a Mog or Kleber.

this matters versus competent t10 cvs, (that focus on eliminating dds). It forces Kleber into a bb/ca close support role, which can be tedious. on the other hand, Kleber and Mog excell when tandemed with an understanding bb player, making good use of covering fire in "assault" mode.

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1 hour ago, FrodoFraggin said:

Aren’t the French DDs supposed to have some hit mitigation or damage saturation (?) that’s supposed to make them more survivable?  Is anyone noticing it at all? 

No it doesn't seem any different and at times even worse than regular DDs due to its size. Maybe it needs a buff.

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So give it a weak heal , Pull 5 k off torp dam and bring concealment into the 6's ...7.0 concealment pissed alot of us off. Turret speed at 20's it's rough in a knife fight . but i don't fight ANY dd in my Kleber without my reload . If you do you'll see a Shim laught at you gunning 15k off your hull . You can't take ANY HIT....  We can all agree it needs the long range AA ..A CV can strike you NP than drop fighters to keep you spotted and get a 2nd and 3rd pass ,,5 k a pop for me . So 4 mins in and he has cost me 15K and i can't do anything about it but run to MAMMA .So it needs a buff call it small IDK .

6 hours ago, FrodoFraggin said:

Aren’t the French DDs supposed to have some hit mitigation or damage saturation (?) that’s supposed to make them more survivable?  Is anyone noticing it at all? 

NOPE NOT AT ALL.....

 

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6 hours ago, FrodoFraggin said:

Aren’t the French DDs supposed to have some hit mitigation or damage saturation (?) that’s supposed to make them more survivable?  Is anyone noticing it at all? 

They have a damage saturation gimmick.  How exactly that's working out for them, I'm not sure.

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This is generally how i engage and brawl with harugumo 1 on 1 in close/mid range in French DD, i use the same hit and run tactic for my T8 Le Terrible or T10 Kleber: 

 

This is how I engage both Daring and Harugumo BOTH of them at the same time, same hit and run tactic, constantly on and off engagement, throw a few jabs here and there, back away, then come back to throw few more punches, unload torps whenever i can to make them change their course, retreat again, then come back to throw a few more uppercuts and that's how i would wear them down, i got speed advantage so in mid to long-range engagement usually i have the upper hand, halfway through they had their Khab joined in the fight so at that point I had THREE gunboats shooting at me:

 

You go 55 knots, other than another French DD, there's no other ships could get away from you when you decided to pursue or re-engage a fight, same goes for disengagement, they can't catch you if you decided to bail.  Hell, you could even outrun CV torps!!

Few things to keep in mind when you're in French DD:

-Don't charge a smoked up hydro ships like the Daring, Z52, Friesland, you should flush them out of the smoke with ALL your torps, only then you engage them once those hydro ships are OUTSIDE of their smoke, you HAVE TO fight them in the open.

-Don't engage any Russian or British DD without your reload booster, if you can't finish them off within the duration of your booster you need to disengage and kite, you can always come back to finish them off. 

-Don't rush into cap in the beginning of the battle, your 7km concealment will get you spotted from the moon.

-The repair party has 40 seconds reload, since I do not have any heal or smoke, I always put out any fire ASAP when i'm in a knife fight, I would never ever let my french DD burn, not even a second longer,  need to conserve my HP.

-Keep a distance away from the island, you do not want to get caught by Mino/Smolensk or torps coming out from the corner where you can't see them.

 

The Kleber may not earn you too many top spots, but it is effective in gunning down other DD, she is on top of the DD food chain right next to the Khab, play it right and your team will be rewarded, otherwise her speed could get you into trouble (over-extended) just as quickly.  

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So a fighting retreat puts you at the ADV , but we can't allways fight in a retreat . To make the Kleber effective at all it needs a high point Caption ,Basic fire , Adv Fire , Concealment , Surv EX , Exp markman .I could see the ADV of using Radio Location . But i can't afford to give other skill up for it . Look it needs a buff .... I want to play the DD give it a heal put 5k DAM off the torps and bring concealment 0.2 or 0.3 down . Done ...

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The kleber will never be a match for the Khab ..... And with out your reload other DD's can kill you ... Just asking for a small justified buff . You can't take any DAM .

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The Kleber has very high skill floor and high skill ceiling, how are you getting to Tier 10 without 19pt captain? lol seems like you haven't got much game in Le Fantasque/Terrible and Mogador before you unlock the Kleber?  You can skip the concealment for now, and get it last, but RPF is absolutely crucial and MUST HAVE , not only help you hunt other DD, but also help you AVOID being ambushed and be aware of incoming torps direction.   13pt captain is the absolute minimum you are going to need for the Kleber, or you're going to be handicapping this ship, AND the T8~T9 French DD for that matter.....

These are MUST HAVE captain skills for French DD IMO:

Priority Target
Last Stand
Survivability Expert
BFT
Radio Location

I would get the concealment last, Kleber maxed out at 7km so it is crap anyway, you should be constantly firing your gun running at max throttle going ~55 knot, so your concealment is essentially staying at 13km most of the time, therefore CE skill is low on priority list.  Kleber is a Predator, this is not something you sit behind island or behind someone else's smoke.  The Kleber Armor is absolutely beast, if you watch those two of my replay clips you will see the Daring and Harugumo did peanut damage to my Kleber while I shred them like swiss cheese.....

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It’s a LTP issue really. I doubt they’ll buff Kleber ever. And I’m really hoping they don’t nerf her either. People just don’t know how to use her. If you’re taking that kind of damage, you’re out of position or over extended. And if you’re not using the upgraded speed boost mod, you’re gimping yourself. Good captains make every DD better. This ship just gets VERY strong with a good captain. And by T10 you should have a good captain. I never played French much but between the French event and Kleber release I had 2 new 19 point captains. 

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22 hours ago, Xcalib3r said:

The Kleber has very high skill floor and high skill ceiling, how are you getting to Tier 10 without 19pt captain? lol seems like you haven't got much game in Le Fantasque/Terrible and Mogador before you unlock the Kleber?  You can skip the concealment for now, and get it last, but RPF is absolutely crucial and MUST HAVE , not only help you hunt other DD, but also help you AVOID being ambushed and be aware of incoming torps direction.   13pt captain is the absolute minimum you are going to need for the Kleber, or you're going to be handicapping this ship, AND the T8~T9 French DD for that matter.....

These are MUST HAVE captain skills for French DD IMO:

Priority Target
Last Stand
Survivability Expert
BFT
Radio Location

I would get the concealment last, Kleber maxed out at 7km so it is crap anyway, you should be constantly firing your gun running at max throttle going ~55 knot, so your concealment is essentially staying at 13km most of the time, therefore CE skill is low on priority list.  Kleber is a Predator, this is not something you sit behind island or behind someone else's smoke.  The Kleber Armor is absolutely beast, if you watch those two of my replay clips you will see the Daring and Harugumo did peanut damage to my Kleber while I shred them like swiss cheese.....

My 17point Caption went to my Modagor . My new FR Caption at 10 when to the Kleber . I Like the tracers but 2 mil dam speed tanked that will never happen in the Kleber my high is 1.2mil . AFT make's it playable at range . But still feels gimped 2 shot death is real ..

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Still needs a heal ... Take 3k dam off the torps and .2 or .3 on concealment ...Done .... Look no one wants to play the FR DD's . I'm still testing my FR DD's but 1 shot boom 8k hull left and 18mins left in match .. Really pisses me off . AA is a bad joke . Why no LONG RANGE AA ?? And what's with the 50% shell break on the HE ??

 

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3 hours ago, War182 said:

Still needs a heal ... Take 3k dam off the torps and .2 or .3 on concealment ...Done .... Look no one wants to play the FR DD's . I'm still testing my FR DD's but 1 shot boom 8k hull left and 18mins left in match .. Really pisses me off . AA is a bad joke . Why no LONG RANGE AA ?? And what's with the 50% shell break on the HE ??

 

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You need IFHE to damage cruiser bow and stern. Shoot BB superstructure. Use speed boost and evasion to not get hit. AFT is a crutch. Kleber has an absurd winrate and is definitely overpowered in the right hands. I would not be surprised if it got the nerf bat eventually seeing as how the Khabarovsk was pounded into uselessness and it may even have never been this good on release.

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What's funny is I always ask the carriers to kill the French dds first lol. I haven't played them yet,  but what I see is that if they are allowed to survive long enough they kill all the friendly bbs with drive by fish.

They can do that drive by torpedo soup like no one else.

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