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Decision Time: Smolensk vs. Thunderer

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I have enough coal to get either ship now with the coupon.   My clan mates are saying get the Smolensk.   My stats are much better on BB's than any other class of ship.  I rarely run my Atlanta or Minotaur because I'm not good at keeping thin skinned CL's alive for long.   I am doing well in Ranked Sprint with the Belfast thou.  The last Clan Wars (T8) I ran the Prinz Eugen or Baltimore, both have some armor protection.  I did not do well when trying the Bayard, Irian, or Cleveland.  

 I've watched Youtube reviews of both these coal ships and I'm just not sure which one to get.   Now for Coop I've heard the Smolensk is better credit earner just because the battles go so fast a BB doesn't have time to do much.    So I'd like to hear from anyone who has run either ship in Coop and also in random battles.  The smoke on the Smolensk maxes out at 3 charges I think even with premium and Superintendent, the Belfast gives one more.    But my Belfast has been torn up in Ranked while sitting in smoke just from many ships firing blind into the smoke.   Still have a 60%+ win rate with it thou.     The Thunderer is supposed to be very accurate but squishy.   I can aim and shoot well but watching the map and the overall tactical situation are my weak points.   In the tech tree I have Yamato, Montana, & G.K.  I have the T8 French and have researched but don't plan to buy the Monarch.  I'm sitting on 1.3M FreeXp so plan go straight to the Lion, although if I buy the Thunderer I may just call it quits on the UK BB line and not get the Lion or Conquerer.  

Thanks for any insights.

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29 minutes ago, AirBear8 said:

I have enough coal to get either ship now with the coupon.   My clan mates are saying get the Smolensk.   My stats are much better on BB's than any other class of ship.  I rarely run my Atlanta or Minotaur because I'm not good at keeping thin skinned CL's alive for long.   I am doing well in Ranked Sprint with the Belfast thou.  The last Clan Wars (T8) I ran the Prinz Eugen or Baltimore, both have some armor protection.  I did not do well when trying the Bayard, Irian, or Cleveland.  

 I've watched Youtube reviews of both these coal ships and I'm just not sure which one to get.   Now for Coop I've heard the Smolensk is better credit earner just because the battles go so fast a BB doesn't have time to do much.    So I'd like to hear from anyone who has run either ship in Coop and also in random battles.  The smoke on the Smolensk maxes out at 3 charges I think even with premium and Superintendent, the Belfast gives one more.    But my Belfast has been torn up in Ranked while sitting in smoke just from many ships firing blind into the smoke.   Still have a 60%+ win rate with it thou.     The Thunderer is supposed to be very accurate but squishy.   I can aim and shoot well but watching the map and the overall tactical situation are my weak points.   In the tech tree I have Yamato, Montana, & G.K.  I have the T8 French and have researched but don't plan to buy the Monarch.  I'm sitting on 1.3M FreeXp so plan go straight to the Lion, although if I buy the Thunderer I may just call it quits on the UK BB line and not get the Lion or Conquerer.  

Thanks for any insights.

Get Smolensk while you can. It may not be around much longer. Too many whining it is OP. Don't miss out. Thunderer will be around a while.

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Earnings in Co-op?  No different than any other Tier X Cruiser.  In Co-op, Smolensk can also be left out of the top earnings because she's not a Destroyer.

DM

Worcester

Minotaur

Whatever.   They're Cruisers.  They don't get to go in and rush for big torpedo damage that help quickly end games with the DD at the top of the scores.

 

You're spamming your formidable 130mm x16 guns trying to get damage, but there goes that Shimakaze about to take 2-3 kills in a span of 30 seconds and likely ending the Co-op game right then and there.

 

Personally OP, if you like playing BBs that much more, then get Thunderer.  If the Cruiser style of play isn't to your liking then why get them?  Even in the BB crowd, I remember an incident a while back on the forums.  This was when Missouri was getting ready to be pulled from purchase in the game and Musashi was going to replace her.  This guy started a thread asking whether he should use the FreeXP to get Missouri.  He let it be known that he hated Iowa.  Everyone on the boards was all:

"GET MISSOURI NOW!"

"GET THE MONEY MAKER WHILE YOU CAN!"

I was the only guy in that thread that warned the OP that Missouri, when you get past the credit earnings and Radar consumable that her hype was based around, wasn't that much more different from Iowa.  If he hated the Iowa playstyle, Missouri wasn't going to change it.

He got Missouri.

He hated it.

 

This is especially true if you are intending to do Randoms / PVP with these ships.  In Co-op you can get away with a lot of stuff, but if a ship isn't to your liking, to your style in PVP, it's not going to be great.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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The free tier 10 camo that Smolensk comes with makes it a better earner than the cruisers from the tree, unless you get the tier 10 camo for them -- so there is that. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, AirBear8 said:

I have enough coal to get either ship now with the coupon.   My clan mates are saying get the Smolensk.   My stats are much better on BB's than any other class of ship.  I rarely run my Atlanta or Minotaur because I'm not good at keeping thin skinned CL's alive for long.   I am doing well in Ranked Sprint with the Belfast thou.  The last Clan Wars (T8) I ran the Prinz Eugen or Baltimore, both have some armor protection.  I did not do well when trying the Bayard, Irian, or Cleveland.  

 I've watched Youtube reviews of both these coal ships and I'm just not sure which one to get.   Now for Coop I've heard the Smolensk is better credit earner just because the battles go so fast a BB doesn't have time to do much.    So I'd like to hear from anyone who has run either ship in Coop and also in random battles.  The smoke on the Smolensk maxes out at 3 charges I think even with premium and Superintendent, the Belfast gives one more.    But my Belfast has been torn up in Ranked while sitting in smoke just from many ships firing blind into the smoke.   Still have a 60%+ win rate with it thou.     The Thunderer is supposed to be very accurate but squishy.   I can aim and shoot well but watching the map and the overall tactical situation are my weak points.   In the tech tree I have Yamato, Montana, & G.K.  I have the T8 French and have researched but don't plan to buy the Monarch.  I'm sitting on 1.3M FreeXp so plan go straight to the Lion, although if I buy the Thunderer I may just call it quits on the UK BB line and not get the Lion or Conquerer.  

Thanks for any insights.

I'm in the same position you're in , I enjoy running the Atlanta in Ops but outside of that I'm no good in her . I free xp'd the Musashi and haven't played enough to recover the FXP I spent so I haven't gotten the Alaska yet . I've been considering the Yoshino for Co-op since I don't have a super cruiser other than Graf Spee and the torps along with the guns on the Yoshi seem like a good combo for Co-op . Just don't know if the Smo is viable for doing enough damage in the short Co-op games . Hard decision .

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Yea, I looked at the Yoshino but it's limited to long range sniping, no armor to speak of.     The Smo is a great ship --if--- and that's a big IF....you can play light cruisers well.  I can't.  I'd have to keep it in Coop until I learned how to better use islands for cover and such stuff.    But I also need to run my Yammy and Montana some, it's been a while.  The Yammy has accuracy on par with the Thunderer I think.   Have to see how I do running T10 BB's.  

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4 minutes ago, AirBear8 said:

Yea, I looked at the Yoshino but it's limited to long range sniping, no armor to speak of.     The Smo is a great ship --if--- and that's a big IF....you can play light cruisers well.  I can't.  I'd have to keep it in Coop until I learned how to better use islands for cover and such stuff.    But I also need to run my Yammy and Montana some, it's been a while.  The Yammy has accuracy on par with the Thunderer I think.   Have to see how I do running T10 BB's.  

I don't know enough about the firing angles on the Thunderer , she's vulnerable just like the Yam/Mush is from the sides ,  not enough guns up front to bow tank . Seems like positioning for her might be a bit more difficult than the Yam . Don't know enough about her yet to say positively though .

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IF your thinking co-op only, then the Smolensk (dont use her in Randoms)...

It just depends on your play style... If none of these ships fit your and how you play, then dont get them...

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38 minutes ago, retic1959 said:

I don't know enough about the firing angles on the Thunderer , she's vulnerable just like the Yam/Mush is from the sides ,  not enough guns up front to bow tank . Seems like positioning for her might be a bit more difficult than the Yam . Don't know enough about her yet to say positively though .

I watched some CC Youtube reviews on the Thunderer.  The ship doesn't get the super-heal the Conqueror does.  But it does have a very fast rudder shift, in fact one CC reviewer suggested using the 40% rudder shift module. That gets the shift well under 10 seconds.    Reload can be brought down to 22 seconds (I think).   Below I'll post a version 8.8 review.   I like my Montana, more so than the Yammy.  More nimble, much faster traverse (John Doe helps).   

 

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Smolensk can really bank in the damage in co op if you play her like a large DD or pretty much like a Minotuar.

 

Just follow behind a DD (if there is one) or towards the nearest cap and set up off to the side near the cap, but keep in mind of your concealment and slow down sometime before hand before spotting whatever ship is on your lane then you smoke up and farm the damage provided that you get spotting from another nearby ship which typically is there.

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12 hours ago, retic1959 said:

I'm in the same position you're in , I enjoy running the Atlanta in Ops but outside of that I'm no good in her . I free xp'd the Musashi and haven't played enough to recover the FXP I spent so I haven't gotten the Alaska yet . I've been considering the Yoshino for Co-op since I don't have a super cruiser other than Graf Spee and the torps along with the guns on the Yoshi seem like a good combo for Co-op . Just don't know if the Smo is viable for doing enough damage in the short Co-op games . Hard decision .

Smolensk (89,541) is my 3rd highest average damage Cruiser at T10 (have all tech tree and all premium except Yoshino and Stalingrad). Only Henri IV (89,946) and Hindenburg (89,610) have higher avg damage for me. Smolensk has the 2nd highest damage game of my T10 Cruisers as well (225,970) only behind Hindenburg (242,546).

Smolensk is an excellent Co-op ship.  The ONE flaw it has for that mode is it is not a good "carry when you are down alone vs multiple bots" ship. All 4 of my losses in it have come when it is me alone vs multiple BB at the end. You can't smoke because you can't see to shoot and it only takes a couple shells from a BB to end your game. If you are up on points and can run and hide for a point win that is fine but if you are down ships and have to fight and sink them it is a tall order for the ship.

Absolutely though it is a good ship for the mode.

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28 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

Smolensk is an excellent Co-op ship.  The ONE flaw it has for that mode is it is not a good "carry when you are down alone vs multiple bots" ship. All 4 of my losses in it have come when it is me alone vs multiple BB at the end. You can't smoke because you can't see to shoot and it only takes a couple shells from a BB to end your game. If you are up on points and can run and hide for a point win that is fine but if you are down ships and have to fight and sink them it is a tall order for the ship.

That's a general weakness for Cruisers if they have to carry in Co-op, and there are enemy BBs still left.   Or you get those games where it's 1-2 players, both in Cruisers, and there's a bunch of BBs.  It can easily go very badly.

I still remember spectating a game where it was down to a Hindenburg and Minotaur player, having to stop a Tier X BB, FDG, and some other ship.  The Minotaur tried torping to little effect, the Hindenburg tried to kite and spam shells, eventually got deleted by enough BB AP landing on him.  The Minotaur was smoked up, but now that Hindy was dead, there was nothing to spot for Minotaur while in smoke.  So yeah, he got rekt.

 

But the BB can take the hits across the face, smile, ask for more, and carry a team.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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I’m just going to throw this out there, but Kuznetsov is supposed to be available for coal soon (I thought this patch).  No idea how much he’ll cost, but I’m holding off coal purchases until his price is announced.  I do have the Smolensk, but there are some coal ships I wouldn’t mind having.  Anyhoo, just mentioning this for those who want/need commanders more than they need ships.

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I'm having 2nd thoughts on getting the Thunderer vs. Smo.   I have 3 T10 BB's that I need to grind the legendary modules for (Yammy, Montana, G.K.) so really need to be running them vs. a new ship.   Also, last night I hit rank 1 in the Sprint Rank battles.  I did it almost exclusively with the Belfast running that ship in 35 of 39 battles with a 54.29% winrate and average damage of 58,731.   On my losses over half the time I kept my star.  I got "High Caliber" 75% of the time.  Now the Smo doesn't have radar but honestly I didn't need the radar that much in ranked.  I had entire battles where I never needed to use it, there were a number of battles with no DD's. 

Correct me if I'm wrong but won't the Smo's playstyle be similar to the Belfast?  Maybe I'm not as bad at CL's as I thought, or maybe the Belfast is just that OP :Smile_Default:

Edit:  I just checked my stats on the Kutuzov, I've done pretty well with it in 98 random battles with a 53% winrate and high "personal rating" and slightly above average damage. 

Edited by AirBear8
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1 hour ago, FrodoFraggin said:

I’m just going to throw this out there, but Kuznetsov is supposed to be available for coal soon (I thought this patch).  No idea how much he’ll cost, but I’m holding off coal purchases until his price is announced.  I do have the Smolensk, but there are some coal ships I wouldn’t mind having.  Anyhoo, just mentioning this for those who want/need commanders more than they need ships.

Interesting, I just returned to the game 2 months ago after taking an 18 month break so missed out on that commander.   With the coal boost I got from ranking out I'll still have around 15K after buying the Smo.    I have the Hockey Player guy, he's my CV Commander on the Midway and Saipan but I have another standard 19 point Commander I could replace him with.   If I put him on the SMO and took SE as a 3rd line skill that'll boost my hit points by 4000, a 12% increase over the 32,400 base.    But to run 4th line skills of CE, IFHE, and AFT that leaves only 1 skill for Line 2 and 3 so I'd have to give up Superintendent.  That means only 2 smoke charges with premium consumables.  Not sure 4K would make that much difference except on DD's.    I use him on my CV because the planes get a few extra hit points.   

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9 hours ago, AdmiralThunder said:

Smolensk (89,541) is my 3rd highest average damage Cruiser at T10 (have all tech tree and all premium except Yoshino and Stalingrad). Only Henri IV (89,946) and Hindenburg (89,610) have higher avg damage for me. Smolensk has the 2nd highest damage game of my T10 Cruisers as well (225,970) only behind Hindenburg (242,546).

Smolensk is an excellent Co-op ship.  The ONE flaw it has for that mode is it is not a good "carry when you are down alone vs multiple bots" ship. All 4 of my losses in it have come when it is me alone vs multiple BB at the end. You can't smoke because you can't see to shoot and it only takes a couple shells from a BB to end your game. If you are up on points and can run and hide for a point win that is fine but if you are down ships and have to fight and sink them it is a tall order for the ship.

Absolutely though it is a good ship for the mode.

I tend to play late at night in Co-op when there are less humans running around in DD's , I do tend to find myself in a carry situation more often though  . Not a problem in the GK or Montana , not as easy using a Salem with no torps  .

Edited by retic1959

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Took the Smolensk into the training room for a bit, then into Co-op.   All human players, I came in 3rd with 112K damage and took very little damage myself.    Running all premium consumables I grossed 133K credits and netted 70K.    That's with the included camo and 20% boost signal flag.   

Fire chance was disappointing.  I scored 418 HE hits but only got 5 fires. 

Here's what I'm using for my 19pt Captain's skills:
Line 1:  PT

Line 2: AR, LS

Line 3: BFT, SI

Line 4: IFHE, AFT

I've got the max range at 19.2km, I can hit BB's at that range but 90% of the shells don't pen.  Closer up I can get more like 50% pen.  Cruisers pen OK, I didn't get a chance to land any long range shots on them yet.     Wondering if I should switch BFT for DE.  With both signal flags I have an 8% fire chane right now.    DE would make it 10%.  

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That's how it is with the small gun spammers.  Very low pen, unless you're IJN 100mm that pens just like a Light Cruiser's 152mm...

 

With Atlanta, I had plenty of games in Randoms with several hundred hits and maybe 2 fires total if I'm lucky.  When people post up their screenshots of their HE spammer games with 18 fires or some sh*t like that, that's the exception, not the norm.

 

IFHE reduces your Fire Chances, even with taking DE to help somewhat, it's still a -1% flat penalty.

Since you expressed PVP usage of the ship, consider also that BBs are fond of Survival Builds that incorporate FP trait to reduce your fire chances even more, as well as lessen the zones you can set on fire from 4 to 3.

 

In the end, no matter what route you pursue, whether you do IFHE + DE, DE only, IFHE only, it's still all dice rolls.  Even with Conqueror's 419mm x12 HE salvos with very high fire chances, I had lots of Random games where despite landing lots of hits, I still get only 2 fires or something.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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2nd Co-op battle was better for fires, probably because it was done at closer ranges than the 1st battle.  236 HE hits and 7 fires.  Or maybe it was the small animal I sacrificed to the RNG Gods.  :cap_win:

Damage was a lot less than 1st battle but I did get 1 cap, wound up grossing 89,133 credits and netting 66,922.  That's not a bad return on an 8 min battle.  

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I got a 0 dmg game in Smolensk today, spotted by a plane sprung smoke and then splatted all over the map in one shot by an FDG at what must have been the limit of his range.

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Made my decision to go with the Smolensk as well . The fact that Zaydin hates it swung the decision for me . :Smile_trollface: Gameplay = T10 Atlanta , lotsa hits for a few fires .

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I've done about 4 random battles now in the Smolensk.   So-so results so far, I'm getting 50-100K damage.  Best team ranking was 5th on a losing team.  Got a post-mortem kill on a Kremlin with my torps.    Still unsure about keeping the range module (19.2km) or switching to reload module.    I am getting a fair number of shots outside 16k but unless I get a fire they're not doing a whole lot of damage, even with IFHE.   

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8 hours ago, Efros said:

I got a 0 dmg game in Smolensk today, spotted by a plane sprung smoke and then splatted all over the map in one shot by an FDG at what must have been the limit of his range.

I got 5k damage in Smolensk in co-op once.

All bot went other side of the map to seek a DD. There were island in middle of the map.

For the time I shot second salvo battle was over......mercy rules

Go figure the skills in this game :Smile_trollface:

 

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