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Prkl8r

People are going to hate Submarines for the same reason they hate CVs.

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Specifically people that play BB and CA/CLs, and that's that they feel like they have no way to counter them. This is the exact same reason that people hated CVs before they massively buffed AA, but it's going to be even worse because BBs and CA/CLs don't actually have anything at all that they can even pretend to do against them.

We'll see how it shakes out, but that's my prediction.

 

Also, According to Notser, the counter-play to them for those ships is just to stay out of range which is like 9km at tier VI. Because that's what we need, another excuse for BBs to stay in the back.

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5 minutes ago, dad003 said:

Sub torp do like 15-20k damage while CV does 5k they need to buff CV !

Well, in the vid of Notser playing them, he hit 2 torps on a Bayrn for ~60-70% of it's life.

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I imagine in the beginning they will be very op. Its new. Then they will get nerfed, after the forums erupts into a forest fire like it did at 8.0 drop.

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17 minutes ago, Prkl8r said:

Specifically people that play BB and CA/CLs, and that's that they feel like they have no way to count them. This is the exact same reason that people hated CVs before they massively buffed AA, but it's going to be even worse because BBs and CA/CLs don't actually have anything at all that they can even pretend to do against them.

We'll see how it shakes out, but that's my prediction.

 

Also, According to Notser, the counter-play to them for those ships is just to stay out of range which is like 9km at tier VI. Because that's what we need, another excuse for BBs to stay in the back.

It won't be just BB and cruiser that won't like it. Yet another thing for DD players to put on the list.

As for what Notser said...yeah that's what is going to happen. Seems to be the answer for everything "just stay far away". I hope someone called him out on that suggestion.

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8 minutes ago, Vekta408 said:

It won't be just BB and cruiser that won't like it. Yet another thing for DD players to put on the list.

As for what Notser said...yeah that's what is going to happen. Seems to be the answer for everything "just stay far away". I hope someone called him out on that suggestion.

Call him out on what? He's just telling people what the current counter-play is with the system WG made. I don't agree with Notser all the time, but he definitely doesn't like passive play, so I would be surprised if he thinks it's good design as is.

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Theres a feedback post on BB counterplay.  it doesn't look as stupid as I feared.

 What looks stupid are the Homing torpedoes. Pure idiocy like the rocket planes

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31 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

What looks stupid are the Homing torpedoes. Pure idiocy like the rocket planes

I think they should remove the homing torps, change the reload time of the torps to 30 seconds and increase the damage of them, as well as lower the detection range

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If they want to introduce them into the game, that’s fine, but captain skills need to be reworked accordingly.  Give everyone priority target as a base skill, so we know we’re being targeted at least.  

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I watched Flamu’s vid last night, if you ping the bow and stern of a ship the torps can home and citadel for a lot of damage - no ping and they were doing like 5k.  Pinging notifies the minimap a sub where the sub is, but it’s very subtle.  There probably should be an audio queue, or your commander says “sub spotted” like he does for other classes.  Was also interested to see subs can be dev struck while fully submerged if one is using HE and the sub is not too deep.

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Ya know... to be honest... subs will be good. Mother Nature always makes the wolves stronger when the deer are too numerous. It's the balance of things.

For years BB mains have had it far too easy. Their natural counters have been nerfed or power-crept so badly that BB mains probably outnumber Chinese citizens in WoWs.

The destroyers get radar'd and blapped thanks to fun and engaging gimmicks past. And the CV's have been castrated to the point that their natural prey is copulating and spreading e-disease.

WoWs needs BB population control, because these NooBBs are just outta control...

 Two torps = 1 dead BB? I approve this idea.

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40 minutes ago, BarneyStyle said:

If they want to introduce them into the game, that’s fine, but captain skills need to be reworked accordingly.  Give everyone priority target as a base skill, so we know we’re being targeted at least.  

Priority Target only indicates who's targeting your ship with main guns, not with torpedoes. Submarines do not have main guns, only torpedoes. So priority target will not indicate that one is being targeted by a sub. Just as it does not indicate that one is being targeted by a stealthy DD if her player keeps torpedoes selected while undetected.

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1 minute ago, ElectroVeeDub said:

WoWs needs BB population control, because these NooBBs are just outta control...

Yawn, another tired trope.  Move on.

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11 minutes ago, Snarky_Wombat said:

Yawn, another tired trope.  Move on.

When I go into matchmaker, and it's 2 CV's, 30 BB's, 5 CL's, and 6 DD's.... there's a problem.

If us DD mains don't partner up with CV's, step our games up, and keep exterminating the plague... tomorrows' youth will be the ones who really pay the price...

How would you feel if your son or daughter was infected by a NooBB when torpedoes are free? This is a national crisis... the very fiber of our fine nation is at risk.  :(

Our submarine Brothers in Arms are welcomed in this Holy War against tyranny...

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I just hope they test, test, and do more testing. Before they release them. Lets not have a repeat of throwing Subs in randoms and patching game from there. 

 

I still have nightmares about the Hak CV after the rework went live and nobody could do anything. 

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18 minutes ago, FrodoFraggin said:

I watched Flamu’s vid last night, if you ping the bow and stern of a ship the torps can home and citadel for a lot of damage - no ping and they were doing like 5k.  Pinging notifies the minimap a sub where the sub is, but it’s very subtle.  There probably should be an audio queue, or your commander says “sub spotted” like he does for other classes.  Was also interested to see subs can be dev struck while fully submerged if one is using HE and the sub is not too deep.

I agree, 100%.  +1

When a ship is pinged by a sub, just about everyone on that ship knows it.  You can easily hear it, especially if you are below the waterline.

If one of my pixelbotes gets pinged by a sub, I want the game to let me know in no uncertain terms that I am being actively targeted by a sub.  Having a search area appear on the minimap is a start.  I want to hear the ping AND a verbal notification that I am being detected by active sonar.

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Give the sub problem solving to I-Chase.  If anyone can figure out the in and outs of a ship its him.  His "Flying Shimakazi"  is a classic example.  I'm guessing he has already figured out the most advantageous strategies for sub and anti-sub operations.  Now if can just get WOW to listen to him.

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5 hours ago, dad003 said:

Sub torp do like 15-20k damage while CV does 5k they need to buff CV !

The size of the torpedoes, in real life at least, was different.
Aerial torpedoes are smaller, and their smaller warheads do smaller amounts of damage.  They still cause flooding, though (sometimes).

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BBs and cruisers at least have defenses against bombers -- they have AA, they can see them coming and maneuver, etc.

Against subs?  No ASW gear, and the attacks come from nowhere.

 

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52 minutes ago, Captain_Slattery said:

If one of my pixelbotes gets pinged by a sub, I want the game to let me know in no uncertain terms that I am being actively targeted by a sub.  Having a search area appear on the minimap is a start.  I want to hear the ping AND a verbal notification that I am being detected by active sonar.

I bet some players would like to have a start dodging now warning that they can't miss.  Place yourself in a sub and think if that sounds like it will work well for landing your torps. 

2 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

BBs and cruisers at least have defenses against bombers -- they have AA, they can see them coming and maneuver, etc.

Against subs?  No ASW gear, and the attacks come from nowhere.

All ships, including cruisers and BBs can shoot at subs.  Even misses can do splash damage to them.  Plus, many of the sub attacks don't come from nowhere, they come from the spot that was indicated on the mini map when the sub pinged.

52 minutes ago, Legio_X_ said:

Will hydro be a skill that pings subs locations? Like sonar?

Hydro works on surfaced and periscope depth subs, but not fully when submerged.

5 hours ago, Taichunger said:

Theres a feedback post on BB counterplay.  it doesn't look as stupid as I feared.

I agree.  Flamu did more damage and sunk more subs while playing the Fuso then in DDs.  BB HE can one shot subs no problem.

6 hours ago, Prkl8r said:

Also, According to Notser, the counter-play to them for those ships is just to stay out of range which is like 9km at tier VI. Because that's what we need, another excuse for BBs to stay in the back.

Notser clear only played a few games and rushed out a commentary video.  I wouldn't put much stock in what he said.

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Just now, Slimeball91 said:

All ships, including cruisers and BBs can shoot at subs.  Even misses can do splash damage to them.  Plus, many of the sub attacks don't come from nowhere, they come from the spot that was indicated on the mini map when the sub pinged.

Do BBs and cruisers have ASW gear -- yes or no?  

As for "near misses", irrelevant.  How often is the damage done by gunfire more than a nuisance to the subs? 

The ping is buried in the minimap, with no other notice, it took Flamu quite a while to even find where it was.  The people watching him play didn't notice it for a long time.  Even people who look at the minimap as much as they should are going to miss that indicator. 

 

Ergo, as I said:

BBs and cruisers at least have defenses against bombers -- they have AA, they can see them coming and maneuver, etc.

Against subs?  No ASW gear, and the attacks come from nowhere.

 

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I won't mind if PT doesn't tell BBs a torp's targeting them. No easy mode classes in WOWS is best.

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6 hours ago, Prkl8r said:

Well, in the vid of Notser playing them, he hit 2 torps on a Bayrn for ~60-70% of it's life.

I killed an Iowa with 1 torp last night... (detonation)

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1 minute ago, Reymu said:

I won't mind if PT doesn't tell BBs a torp's targeting them. No easy mode classes in WOWS is best.

PT doesn't tell anyone that they're being aimed at with torpedoes, does it?  Is that supposed to change? 

If PT doesn't work against torpedoes... doesn't that make the torp-firing ship the "easy mode"? 

:Smile_sceptic:

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