Jump to content
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
Starzfan

Way too many torpedoes

90 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

127
[AWLVS]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
134 posts
3,118 battles

This game has become so full of ships launching torpedoes that ships like BB's cannot even get into battle before DD's and torp carrying cruisers run around and torp everything, esp in co-op.  You all need to balance this game.  Remove torps from cruisers, let the players learn to use their guns and limit the number of DD's in co-op battles to 2 per battle.  Having 4 of your 8 ships as DD's in a co-op battle is utterly absurd and leaves your other four players with nothing to shoot at, aka, wasting their time even showing up.   Also, how about making it so that BB shells do their  potential damage from time to time.   I mean when I hit a tier 8 cruiser with 6 HE shells from 406mm guns and it registers 2500 damage.. that is utterly absurd.  In all reality, that cruiser should be dust but no, he continues to fire every 5 seconds at me with his little 152's that somehow do more damage than a gun 3 times it size, then he launches torps at my BB and boom, Im gone.  Cruisers need to lose the torps, BB's need to be allowed to do the damage they were meant to do, and you need to limit the DD's in co-op battles, especially now that you plan to throw even more torpedoes into the game with submarines.   At that point, you might as well remove carriers and BB's as they will be utterly useless.  This is supposed to be World of Warships, not World of Torpedoes...    balance it out.  

  • Cool 4
  • Funny 6
  • Confused 1
  • Boring 16
  • Angry 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6,228
[GWG]
Supertester
22,902 posts
12,800 battles

It was far worse in the torpedo spam days when you would never ever see the DD's launching torpedoes and the detection range for torpedoes was shorter than it is now when you would spend half the match dodging torpedoes.

  • Cool 2
  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
127
[AWLVS]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
134 posts
3,118 battles
1 minute ago, BrushWolf said:

It was far worse in the torpedo spam days when you would never ever see the DD's launching torpedoes and the detection range for torpedoes was shorter than it is now when you would spend half the match dodging torpedoes.

The torp detection range is still too short and torps should have a minimum distance to arm.  Torpedoes were not armed the second they were launched.. they had to travel a specific distance before they were armed.  Pont here is that slower ships with inaccurate guns like the BB's cannot score worth a damn, esp in co-op, when the DD's and cruisers speed ahead, torping the whole enemy team before you get a chance to land more than a handful of shots and those shots dont do damage worth a damn.   People tell me,  aim better. Im sorry but at 15km or more, BB shots are a matter of luck.  There is no way to accurately fire a BB gun at that distance.  They are not accurate enough to put them on a specific spot on the target ship yet the little DD's and cruisers with their 127mm and 152mm guns manage to totally kick your butt because you have to hit them with three salvos to kill them, all the while they are spamming you with little shells that set you on fire every time you get hit and they reload at such an absurdly fast rate.   They so need to look at this stuff and balance this game out.  There is no excuse for a BB shell to hit a ship and only do 1500 damage when it is capable of doing 15,000 all the while torps capable of 15k damage always hit and do 10k......   the balance has become pathetic.  Some will not agree with me and that is fine, I am just posting what I see in damn near every co-op battle I play in.  Torps either need to be nerfed like they do the BB shells, or they need to cut down on the number of ships carrying torps because there are way too many of them in the game now.  Between cruisers, DD's, airplanes, and now subs,  there are so many torps in this game that the BB's are becoming absolutely useless.  

  • Cool 1
  • Funny 1
  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6,228
[GWG]
Supertester
22,902 posts
12,800 battles
1 minute ago, Starzfan said:

The torp detection range is still too short and torps should have a minimum distance to arm.  Torpedoes were not armed the second they were launched.. they had to travel a specific distance before they were armed.  Pont here is that slower ships with inaccurate guns like the BB's cannot score worth a damn, esp in co-op, when the DD's and cruisers speed ahead, torping the whole enemy team before you get a chance to land more than a handful of shots and those shots dont do damage worth a damn.   People tell me,  aim better. Im sorry but at 15km or more, BB shots are a matter of luck.  There is no way to accurately fire a BB gun at that distance.  They are not accurate enough to put them on a specific spot on the target ship yet the little DD's and cruisers with their 127mm and 152mm guns manage to totally kick your butt because you have to hit them with three salvos to kill them, all the while they are spamming you with little shells that set you on fire every time you get hit and they reload at such an absurdly fast rate.   They so need to look at this stuff and balance this game out.  There is no excuse for a BB shell to hit a ship and only do 1500 damage when it is capable of doing 15,000 all the while torps capable of 15k damage always hit and do 10k......   the balance has become pathetic.  Some will not agree with me and that is fine, I am just posting what I see in damn near every co-op battle I play in.  Torps either need to be nerfed like they do the BB shells, or they need to cut down on the number of ships carrying torps because there are way too many of them in the game now.  Between cruisers, DD's, airplanes, and now subs,  there are so many torps in this game that the BB's are becoming absolutely useless.  

There is a minimum range but the game scale makes that seem extremely short.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,748
[TBW]
Members
8,642 posts
15,512 battles
17 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

It was far worse in the torpedo spam days when you would never ever see the DD's launching torpedoes and the detection range for torpedoes was shorter than it is now when you would spend half the match dodging torpedoes.

and while the torps were reloading they spammed HE at you undetected too.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6,228
[GWG]
Supertester
22,902 posts
12,800 battles
1 minute ago, Sovereigndawg said:

and while the torps were reloading they spammed HE at you undetected too.

Some times yes but the worst open water stealth firing was from cruisers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,082
[O-PN]
Members
2,108 posts
4,424 battles

There's a reason I use DDs in co op to finish out a daily when time is an issue, or WG is cracking the whip on daily mission grinds and I don't have all night.  Easy 500 base XP to achieve.  Go in, torp a ship or two, ram another, back to port, grab another ship.  It wouldn't be that way if base XP was base XP but nope, must have WIN base XP.   Nothing worse than wasting 15-20m in a random battle only to have a loss not count for anything.   You can get an easy 2k winning base XP in that time via the right ships in co op.

You issue right now IS NOT the torp ships, it's the fact that everyone and their dog is getting their gift seals cleared by using the fastest means available --- co op.   Deal with it, or convince WG to change up the win xp requirement. 

Edited by NoSoMo
  • Cool 4
  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
3,170 posts
6,338 battles
34 minutes ago, Starzfan said:

This game has become so full of ships launching torpedoes that ships like BB's cannot even get into battle before DD's and torp carrying cruisers run around and torp everything, esp in co-op.  You all need to balance this game.  Remove torps from cruisers, let the players learn to use their guns and limit the number of DD's in co-op battles to 2 per battle.  Having 4 of your 8 ships as DD's in a co-op battle is utterly absurd and leaves your other four players with nothing to shoot at, aka, wasting their time even showing up.   Also, how about making it so that BB shells do their  potential damage from time to time.   I mean when I hit a tier 8 cruiser with 6 HE shells from 406mm guns and it registers 2500 damage.. that is utterly absurd.  In all reality, that cruiser should be dust but no, he continues to fire every 5 seconds at me with his little 152's that somehow do more damage than a gun 3 times it size, then he launches torps at my BB and boom, Im gone.  Cruisers need to lose the torps, BB's need to be allowed to do the damage they were meant to do, and you need to limit the DD's in co-op battles, especially now that you plan to throw even more torpedoes into the game with submarines.   At that point, you might as well remove carriers and BB's as they will be utterly useless.  This is supposed to be World of Warships, not World of Torpedoes...    balance it out.  

The solution is to make the ship detect the torps easier by estimating the height of the ship. Taller the ship - the earlier the torps will be shown on the ocean. Obviously BB's would be tallest so that then torps should be detected earlier.  By how much? Thats up to the WOW developers to program in. Whats realistic as an example?  Have not researched that number but with sailors up there in the towers I am sure its more detectable than it is now ingame. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,128
[WOLFB]
Members
3,019 posts
12,632 battles

I guess I'll add you to "my list of BB who don't wants to learn game mecanics and wants his ship to be godmod".

 

 

Prinz popcorn.jpg

  • Funny 10
  • Boring 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
327
[TOAST]
Members
1,122 posts
9,512 battles
1 hour ago, Starzfan said:

This game has become so full of ships launching torpedoes that ships like BB's cannot even get into battle before DD's and torp carrying cruisers run around and torp everything, esp in co-op.  You all need to balance this game.  Remove torps from cruisers, let the players learn to use their guns and limit the number of DD's in co-op battles to 2 per battle.  Having 4 of your 8 ships as DD's in a co-op battle is utterly absurd and leaves your other four players with nothing to shoot at, aka, wasting their time even showing up.   Also, how about making it so that BB shells do their  potential damage from time to time.   I mean when I hit a tier 8 cruiser with 6 HE shells from 406mm guns and it registers 2500 damage.. that is utterly absurd.  In all reality, that cruiser should be dust but no, he continues to fire every 5 seconds at me with his little 152's that somehow do more damage than a gun 3 times it size, then he launches torps at my BB and boom, Im gone.  Cruisers need to lose the torps, BB's need to be allowed to do the damage they were meant to do, and you need to limit the DD's in co-op battles, especially now that you plan to throw even more torpedoes into the game with submarines.   At that point, you might as well remove carriers and BB's as they will be utterly useless.  This is supposed to be World of Warships, not World of Torpedoes...    balance it out.  

1- turn on last known location

2- look at the mini map

3- us ap (actually aim)

 

  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
3,326 posts
13,078 battles
1 hour ago, Starzfan said:

This game has become so full of ships launching torpedoes that ships like BB's cannot even get into battle before DD's and torp carrying cruisers run around and torp everything, esp in co-op.  You all need to balance this game.  Remove torps from cruisers, let the players learn to use their guns and limit the number of DD's in co-op battles to 2 per battle.  Having 4 of your 8 ships as DD's in a co-op battle is utterly absurd and leaves your other four players with nothing to shoot at, aka, wasting their time even showing up.   Also, how about making it so that BB shells do their  potential damage from time to time.   I mean when I hit a tier 8 cruiser with 6 HE shells from 406mm guns and it registers 2500 damage.. that is utterly absurd.  In all reality, that cruiser should be dust but no, he continues to fire every 5 seconds at me with his little 152's that somehow do more damage than a gun 3 times it size, then he launches torps at my BB and boom, Im gone.  Cruisers need to lose the torps, BB's need to be allowed to do the damage they were meant to do, and you need to limit the DD's in co-op battles, especially now that you plan to throw even more torpedoes into the game with submarines.   At that point, you might as well remove carriers and BB's as they will be utterly useless.  This is supposed to be World of Warships, not World of Torpedoes...    balance it out.  

Should we also remove the torps on BB's as well.  BB do do the damage they are meant to do, it comes down to who is using it. (I said "do do")

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,714
[SSG]
Alpha Tester
4,593 posts
10,811 battles
34 minutes ago, Starzfan said:

The torp detection range is still too short and torps should have a minimum distance to arm.

The spotting range of torps varies based on speed, slow ones below 62 knots are 1.2 km, I think USN's 55 knot ones are 1.1 km, up to 65 knots is 1.3 km, and 1.4 up through 70 something. IJN on those last 2 has a .3 km penalty that has made them far less effective - to a point of underpowered by comparison, and Pan-Asia has .8 km or lower depending on speed. Which sounds close till you consider that all of these times result in 7.5 seconds or higher times to react, without taking TASM 1 and/or Vigilance skill, extends this to over 11 seconds if you have both. That also does not include any other spotting from other ships or hydro. Also, they do have a minimum arming distance - it just happens to be very short and most captains with a brain 99.9% of the time will fire before that point. I will openly admit I once actually had my torps fail to arm cause of range. 

But also that is the time from when the torpedo itself is spotted, and averages out about the same as your average shell, but unlike most shells they take a while to reach that point. Let's a Kami clone for instance - something Wargaming removed because it uses IJN torps that follow the same rule as every other nation - fired at the absolute edge of it's stealth fire range, it takes roughly 30 seconds to reach it's target, about double what a shell going 5 times as far can take. A target that has an indicator going "hey your spotted" and generally means that a DD is targeting you - if you don't have the skill that tells you someone is aiming at you. What few cruisers can stealth torp have to fire from at least double that range and takes about 1 minute to hit the target. Even the almighty 'wall of skill' off shima, fired at max range, would not hit a target till 2 full minutes after it was launched. What this means - a target has to make 0 maneuvers or course corrections for anywhere between 30 seconds to 2 minutes, with a 7.5 second or greater warning, to score solid dev strike level hits. 

1 hour ago, Starzfan said:

Also, how about making it so that BB shells do their  potential damage from time to time.   I mean when I hit a tier 8 cruiser with 6 HE shells from 406mm guns and it registers 2500 damage.. that is utterly absurd

And this is where learning mechanics comes in handy. The damage listed for ALL weapons in the port, even torpedoes, is if it hits the citadel. 

The American 406 mm guns have a max damage of 5700. Anything not a citadel hit but a regular hit would be 5700*0.33, or 1881 damage, HE doesn't over pen, but that's a .10 modifier, and of course 0 damage pens and no pens. American BB's use diameter/6 for HE pen - meaning the punch through 67 mm of armour. I can't think of a single cruiser with 67 mm or lower citadel protection at that tier. Many will also have areas like a conning tower, turrets, etc, that are more than this as well - and will shatter the shell. You also even after all that, have to take in damage saturation, which cuts it by I believe half, so your pen damage is down to 940.5. So around 2500 isn't exactly unbelievable. And why unless it's bow on and you can't overmatch, ot you simply have HE loaded because of say a DD or something - you should be firing AP at a cruiser. There are only a handful of BB's that will citadel a tier 8 cruiser with HE - if they take IFHE to troll. 

All of this applies as well to HE rockets, bombs, and secondaries, AP as well other than they have whatever pen based on multiple factors.

Torpedoes are slightly different in that their max damage is generally only about 90% of it's max at best. All ships get 10% damage reduction from bow and stern. DD's get 10% damage reduction to center of the ship, while cruisers/BBs/CV's typically have a bulge and torp protection that lowers it even further. 

1 hour ago, Starzfan said:

he continues to fire every 5 seconds at me with his little 152's that somehow do more damage than a gun 3 times it size,

7.5 seconds - no 152 mm cruiser fires faster than that at tier 8, other than Bayard using reload booster. Only a couple tier 10's do that. Is IFHE an annoying issue - yes, and Wargaming is slowly trying to fix it at last check. They are not however doing more damage than a gun 3 times their size, least not 1-1. typical HE round damage of 152 mm guns is around 752. With all the same rules as BB's, so he needs 5 rounds to hit and pen to match/surpass 2-4 of yours. 10 rounds if what he's hitting is damage saturated. Most of these cruisers have only 6 guns forward, in order to unmask the other 3-6 guns require turning broadside to which a BB can nuke it with citadel hits. So to match you they would need in the best case for them 50% of the rounds to hit and pen areas they can, in the worst case, 83%. Which if they achieve this yes, they will do 3x damage in the time it takes you to fire another salvo, because at 7.5 seconds they fire 3x faster. It's accuracy and RoF against massive damage. 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,405
[CRMSN]
Members
8,832 posts
9,700 battles
28 minutes ago, AlcatrazNC said:

I guess I'll add you to "my list of BB who don't wants to learn game mecanics and wants his ship to be godmod".

 

 

Prinz popcorn.jpg

Not my exact thoughts, but I like yours better than mine. :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
294
[PSV]
Privateers, Supertester
699 posts
5,596 battles

You must anticipate the torps, not dodge torps once you see them. Preventative action is going to save your butt. 

 

Edited by mrmariokartguy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
169 posts
2,186 battles

torps mechanics could realy use a rework, the whole concept of spam torpedo walls for an instant K.O at close range or hope for 1 or 2 to conect if at long range is terrible.

personaly i would:

-increace their speed

-increace range, specialy low tier ones

-reduce detection range

-give them a min range equal to a % of their max range

-change torpedo  mechanics to something similar to WOT autoloaders: can only fire 1 torpedo per torpedo launcher with an intra reload of 10 secs before another one could be fired, torpedos will be replenished over time.

-double the bonus given by "target aquisition sistem modification" upgrade and "vigilance" captain skill.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,881
[ARGSY]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
6,583 posts
23,592 battles

Sounds like the experience of the USN at Guadalcanal.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,113 posts

torpedo whiiiiiining for our Sunday menu, prepare popcorns and beers.......always 'who you know start' this, nothing new under the sun...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38
[TXGUN]
Members
200 posts
13,794 battles

Its the Battleship players lament.  "Oh woe is me."  How am I expected to thrive and prosper with all theses little ships conspiring to do me in?  For  "I am Battleship, hear me roar."  Unfortunately we are not about to bend over and grasp our ankles for your so called mighty Battleship.  You will need to earn your credits and accolades the hard way.  You will have to earn them.

  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
247
[LOSC]
Members
468 posts

How will a Cruiser Defeat a BB if he has no Torps?

That would make you, as said above almost God-Mode.

Of Course top tier Cruisers can Spam you with HE but not all have that ability. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,262 posts
15,973 battles

I'll agree with the title's sentiment. I've always thought so after playing the game for just a few months. Back then I was a cruiser main and I've probably lost more CAs and DDs to torps than I have BBs. So to dismiss the complaint as BB whining is a sort of slight of hand distraction.

Don't get me wrong, I can spam torps with the best of them with those Torpedo Reload Boosters. The Isokaze and Kamikaze  are my favorite baby seal clubbers and I'm certainly not using the guns for clubs.

No, any objective view of the game can see that the torpedo soup we have to sail through is way too thick and artificially so. Unlimited torpedo reloads are meant to "balance" DDs into the game making them stronger with a much more powerful role in the game than they ever had in real life.

Now we have subs to look forward to... with "homing" torps no less... added into the already too thick soup. There are many of us that think it's too much and are shouting out "ENOUGH"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,481
[H_]
Members
2,928 posts
13,379 battles
7 hours ago, Starzfan said:

This game has become so full of ships launching torpedoes that ships like BB's cannot even get into battle before DD's and torp carrying cruisers run around and torp everything, esp in co-op.  You all need to balance this game.  Remove torps from cruisers, let the players learn to use their guns and limit the number of DD's in co-op battles to 2 per battle.  Having 4 of your 8 ships as DD's in a co-op battle is utterly absurd and leaves your other four players with nothing to shoot at, aka, wasting their time even showing up.   Also, how about making it so that BB shells do their  potential damage from time to time.   I mean when I hit a tier 8 cruiser with 6 HE shells from 406mm guns and it registers 2500 damage.. that is utterly absurd.  In all reality, that cruiser should be dust but no, he continues to fire every 5 seconds at me with his little 152's that somehow do more damage than a gun 3 times it size, then he launches torps at my BB and boom, Im gone.  Cruisers need to lose the torps, BB's need to be allowed to do the damage they were meant to do, and you need to limit the DD's in co-op battles, especially now that you plan to throw even more torpedoes into the game with submarines.   At that point, you might as well remove carriers and BB's as they will be utterly useless.  This is supposed to be World of Warships, not World of Torpedoes...    balance it out.  

OK, I'm a COOP main and play BB's everyday in COOP.  So far, 8K games in or so, I seem to be able to do an awful lot of damage in COOP in a BB....   And, I'm a below average player???   I wonder, if you are assuming that the rules in COOP are the same as in the Random or Ranked modes?   They aren't and everyday, those of us in COOP see R&R players hiding behind terrain and sniping at max distances in COOP as those players implore the rest of us, sometimes rudely, that we have no clue what we are doing to screw up COOP....     There is no "out of balance" situation in COOP: only, players whom ASSUME that COOP is the same as Randoms....   

Now, here's my suggestion:  take that BB and follow that DD on least time azimuth to the nearest CAP and support that DD and DO NOT STOP to hide....  Wade right into whatever is there and fight it out.....  That is COOP: a brute force, danger close meeting engagement.  So, take this sage advice:  " So it's every hand to his rope or gun, quick's the word and sharp's the action....  And, remember Surprise is on our side...;"   OR, "Dam the torpedoes, full speed ahead..."

Oh, BB/OP driver:  think secondary layouts for your BB's in COOP, eh?!

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×