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Chain_shot

Sub testing still looks unfair on dd's

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DD's have a new role now as sub hunters which puts them in their own game like CV's while sharing a map with the rest of us.  This is an uneven distribution of work load. Why create a a specific game mode on an overworked class?

1) Capper,

2) spotter

3) dd hunter

4) Ship Killer

 

5) running for your life when spotted by aircraft - :cap_wander:

 

 

 

 

Edited by Chain_shot
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We need to see a lot more testing done and hope fully with more players than bots, I see what your saying and this might make weegee only have 1 per side if that was the case

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Just now, Slimeball91 said:

Can you articulate a specific point?  What exactly is the problem as you see it?

They just did, in the opening post.

But then, it's easier to say "you never made a point" than to actually address their point, isn't it?

 

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1 minute ago, Slimeball91 said:

Can you articulate a specific point?  What exactly is the problem as you see it?

No other class has to work  as hard as DD's in the game at this time.

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1 minute ago, Chain_shot said:

No other class has to work  as hard as DD's in the game at this time.

I'm sure they'll still say "when you are going to make a point", because it's just a way to blow the conversation up instead of actually engaging with the problems inherent in this submarines idea.

 

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The much bigger problem is what happens when your team has lost all of it's DD's, the only ship in the game that can attack submerged subs and they can stay down for quite awhile.

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1 minute ago, KilljoyCutter said:

I'm sure they'll still say "when you are going to make a point", because it's just a way to blow the conversation up instead of actually engaging with the problems inherent in this submarines idea.

 

Now we get to chase white circles around the water for more added dissatisfaction on-top of everything else.

 

1 minute ago, BrushWolf said:

The much bigger problem is what happens when your team has lost all of it's DD's, the only ship in the game that can attack submerged subs and they can stay down for quite awhile.

You all die.

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3 minutes ago, Chain_shot said:

No other class has to work  as hard as DD's in the game at this time.

Each player gets to work as hard as they choose, and/or are capable of.  I've got my concerns about the balance for DDs in this new meta but an "unfair workload" isn't how I'd describe it. 

2 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

The much bigger problem is what happens when your team has lost all of it's DD's, the only ship in the game that can attack submerged subs and they can stay down for quite awhile.

Then your team lost their best counter to subs, just like when all your radar cruisers are gone and you don't have good counters for concealment DDs. 

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The DD workload is already pretty intense (provided they actually feel inclined to work it, of course); if/when subs get into the game, hopefully light cruisers can help alleviate some of the sub-hunting stress.

it occurs to me that, were some DDs to have Hedgehog mortars, it might make the job a bit easier, though how you would balance that versus a traditional depth charge I can only guess at.

Edited by Shadow0206
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Multiple related problems:

DDs will bear the brunt of having to engage enemy subs *, on top of all the other things they're already asked to do because of the way they're implemented in this game.  This is unfair and unfun for anyone playing a DD.

Non-DDs will be largely defenseless against enemy submarines, having no ASW gear *.  This is unfair and unfun for anyone playing a non-DD.  (Yes, yes, a non-DD can shoot at a sub that happens to be on not-submerged and actually spotted.  We saw how often that actually helped in the Twitch.) 

The team that loses their DDs first will be largely defenseless against enemy subs.  This exacerbates a problem that already exists in the game.  Despite all the complaints about how put upon DDs are, they're the most influential ships in the game -- look at the numbers on win/loss based on who loses their DDs first.

 

* Only DDs are getting ASW gear "because history", but submarines get rocket power while submerged "because gameplay".  :Smile_facepalm:

 

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6 minutes ago, Slimeball91 said:

Then your team lost their best counter to subs, just like when all your radar cruisers are gone and you don't have good counters for concealment DDs. 

Ah, yes, the "team" canard.  Of course.

There are no teams in this game, just players who aren't supposed to shoot at each other and can be dragged down by someone in the same color jersey.

 

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31 minutes ago, Chain_shot said:

DD's have a new role now as sub hunters which puts them in their own game like CV's while sharing a map with the rest of us.  This is an uneven distribution of work load. Why create a a specific game mode on an overworked class?

1) Capper,

2) spotter

3) dd hunter

4) Ship Killer

 

5) running for your life when spotted by aircraft - :cap_wander:

 

 

 

 

While DDs are certainly good at these things, I think WG is trying to allow other classes to do these things. CVs, played correctly, are great spotters. Lots of people complain about their planes dying when engaging, but just spotting is still super useful for your team.

Subs have the best concealment rating, meaning they may become good cappers if the cap is uncontested.

As for ship killer, pretty much every class tries to kill ships so...

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2 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

This is unfair and unfun for anyone playing a DD.

This is a matter of opinion.  Maybe it plays out like that, maybe it doesn't.  I know you don't like to hear this but its way too early to tell.

3 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

Non-DDs will be largely defenseless against enemy submarines, having no ASW gear *

I know you saw the sub game play.  You know Flamu sunk as many subs in his BBs as he did in DDs.  You know what you just posted here is bull.

4 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

* Only DDs are getting ASW gear "because history", but submarines get rocket power while submerged "because gameplay".

Sure, if you ignore the part where WG said they are only giving DDs ASW for balance reasons, and they said they are open to the idea of giving other ships depth charges if testing shows its needed. 

6 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

The team that loses their DDs first will be largely defenseless against enemy subs.  This exacerbates a problem that already exists in the game.  Despite all the complaints about how put upon DDs are, they're the most influential ships in the game -- look at the numbers on win/loss based on who loses their DDs first.

You will have your own team's subs to spot and cap for your team when your DDs are sunk.  I'm not even convinced depth charges will be the primary counter to subs.  My guess is surface fire from ships and planes will be the main counter.

12 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

Ah, yes, the "team" canard.  Of course.

There are no teams in this game, just players who aren't supposed to shoot at each other and can be dragged down by someone in the same color jersey.

What??

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Just now, KnifeInUrNeck said:

Considering it only takes a few DCs to kill subs, I don’t see the problem

and that all operates in a void away from the rest of what is going on on the map does it?

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39 minutes ago, Chain_shot said:

DD's have a new role now as sub hunters which puts them in their own game like CV's while sharing a map with the rest of us.  This is an uneven distribution of work load. Why create a a specific game mode on an overworked class?

1) Capper,

2) spotter

3) dd hunter

4) Ship Killer

 

5) running for your life when spotted by aircraft - :cap_wander:

 

 

 

 

Hea look something is unfair to DD wow. So original its like a fresh new take on a new thing. DD so week???? Wow so new and greasy. I had no idea DD had such a hard life

 I thought every DD player quit like 6 months ago with cv. 

O what there still here?!?!

Wow

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9 minutes ago, logane0616 said:

While DDs are certainly good at these things, I think WG is trying to allow other classes to do these things. CVs, played correctly, are great spotters. Lots of people complain about their planes dying when engaging, but just spotting is still super useful for your team.

Subs have the best concealment rating, meaning they may become good cappers if the cap is uncontested.

As for ship killer, pretty much every class tries to kill ships so...

great so i can refocus my dd on sub hunting, drop all other expectations and everyone can fill in on the stuff I did before since you know I have a new role to play.- sounds good.

 

The day bb's start capping from the start will be the day I say that subs contributed to game play.

Edited by Chain_shot

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Huh,  so the ship class with the most advantages,  speed,  stealth,  at will stealth,  no citadel,  low hard to hit profiles,  hard hitting weapons with no variance that can usually be used from said stealth,  is getting another responsibility?  Color me surprised.  

THAT BEING SAID,  not really feeling this.  First it leaves a lot of fleet defense to one particular ship class,  which is a meh idea at best.  Second it puts a lot of individual ships safety in the hands of players other than themselves.  Yes,  this is a team game,  but I am still a little wary of putting that level of responsibility into the hands of random player number 5467.

Finally yeah,  I do feel like this is starting to put too much on DD's shoulders.  DD's are all ready responsible for spotting,  area denial,  anti-capital ship duty,  while avoiding being spotted via radar and planes.  Adding in "Oh yeah,  now you also need to sink subs!" is starting to stretch the class a bit thin.

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4 minutes ago, logane0616 said:

As for ship killer, pretty much every class tries to kill ships so...

Yyeesssssss, but it is still legitimately a role expected of the DD, and is still legitimately a component of the DD’s expanding workload.

You have merely stated a fact that the role is expected of other ships. 

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6 minutes ago, Chain_shot said:

and that all operates in a void away from the rest of what is going on on the map does it?

Maybe i missed a video but the one i watched has the sub operating very closely to the reds. There is no "void away" from everyone else.

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4 minutes ago, jags_domain said:

Hea look something is unfair to DD wow. So original its like a fresh new take on a new thing. DD so week???? Wow so new and greasy. I had no idea DD had such a hard life

 I thought every DD player quit like 6 months ago with cv. 

O what there still here?!?!

Wow

We can deduce by this post that NO ship satifactorily fills the roles of spell-checker or point-maker.

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26 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

Multiple related problems:

DDs will bear the brunt of having to engage enemy subs *, on top of all the other things they're already asked to do because of the way they're implemented in this game.  This is unfair and unfun for anyone playing a DD.

Non-DDs will be largely defenseless against enemy submarines, having no ASW gear *.  This is unfair and unfun for anyone playing a non-DD.  (Yes, yes, a non-DD can shoot at a sub that happens to be on not-submerged and actually spotted.  We saw how often that actually helped in the Twitch.) 

The team that loses their DDs first will be largely defenseless against enemy subs.  This exacerbates a problem that already exists in the game.  Despite all the complaints about how put upon DDs are, they're the most influential ships in the game -- look at the numbers on win/loss based on who loses their DDs first.

 

* Only DDs are getting ASW gear "because history", but submarines get rocket power while submerged "because gameplay".  :Smile_facepalm:

 

That is what I am experiencing. engaging and dodging subs, planes, DD's, cruisers, BB's all at the same time. This is the same patting your head while rubbing your stomach while juggling and throwing armed hand grenades that the RTS CV's were that drove all but a few from them. :Smile_sad:

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8 minutes ago, Palladia said:

Huh,  so the ship class with the most advantages,  speed,  stealth,  at will stealth,  no citadel,  low hard to hit profiles,  hard hitting weapons with no variance that can usually be used from said stealth,  is getting another responsibility?  Color me surprised.  

THAT BEING SAID,  not really feeling this.  First it leaves a lot of fleet defense to one particular ship class,  which is a meh idea at best.  Second it puts a lot of individual ships safety in the hands of players other than themselves.  Yes,  this is a team game,  but I am still a little wary of putting that level of responsibility into the hands of random player number 5467.

Finally yeah,  I do feel like this is starting to put too much on DD's shoulders.  DD's are all ready responsible for spotting,  area denial,  anti-capital ship duty,  while avoiding being spotted via radar and planes.  Adding in "Oh yeah,  now you also need to sink subs!" is starting to stretch the class a bit thin.

Yaa if there was only somthing else that was dpi g all thouvhts things...Hummm...what was that......wait its coming to me......o yea PLANES!!!!

Guess how the whinny DD players did to that!

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