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Admiral_Thrawn_1

Time to Buff IJN Torpedo Boat DDs?

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With all the changes and additions to the game has the time come to look at buffing the Torpedo Boat IJN DDs? While they do have good Alpha damage when the torpedoes hit, they have suffered from the following lately.

—Bad detection distances on their Torps

—Greatly reduced damage / kills from flooding from flood mechanics changes.

—Typically more vulnerable to air attacks than Gunboat DDs that feature dual purpose guns and even some with Def AA.

—Poor HP pools and armor.

—Main Guns that have been serviceable to defend themselves from weakened enemy DDs, but now face many new ships with such high DPM the torp boat DDs can’t even kill one of the newer damaged  DDs even when damaged. 

What brought the matter into question is recent battles where you can have 1 French DD burn down 2 IJN torpboat DDs that engaged the French DD at the same time and attacked the French DD with guns and torp Fire. French DD was Tier VII facing off against Akatsuki and a Harekaze that was using 100mm guns like Akizuki uses. No Torps hit despite looking well launched and the guns were hitting the French DD but were not burning it down fast enough. You can imagine what Friesland or the latest CLs can do to IJN torp boats as well.

I have been taking IJN DDs out regularly since the flood changes and have noted many times where well aunched Torps were all to easily evaded and hits that used to flood out now yield far less damage. Which flooding and alpha damage were the main bread and butter for IJN torp DDs, that’s why they would go out using their Concealment with the knowledge that there was a lot that out gunned them.

So hoping we can discuss a reasonable way to Buff the IJN torp DDs since with CV rework, Flood Mechanics changes, their HP pools, their guns, the radar, and ever increasing numbers of rapid fire gunships that can can take them out.

They could use some kind of Buff. It might be to give them their original torpedo detection range pre nerf, or a slight buff to gun reload, better or AA to get rid of planes shadowing them, or maybe some more HP. Any one of these buffs would likely help them out with the power creep, or ieven more than one of these options for buff.

 

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Not going to happen... BB drivers want FIRE DMG then torp or flood DMG...

Since 0.8 patches, it is clear Torps and torp ship who use them are no longer supported nor welcome to say Main battery DMG, FIRE DMG or Secondary DMG (which requires zero human calculation to be good at).

Until WG start treating every ordnance/DMG equally (its not going to happen), torps and torp ships are not going to be supported in the game.

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15 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

Not going to happen... BB drivers want FIRE DMG then torp or flood DMG...

Since 0.8 patches, it is clear Torps and torp ship who use them are no longer supported nor welcome to say Main battery DMG, FIRE DMG or Secondary DMG (which requires zero human calculation to be good at).

Until WG start treating every ordnance/DMG equally (its not going to happen), torps and torp ships are not going to be supported in the game.

And yet they are soon adding multiple lines of submarines and more than likely some premium subs as well. And subs rely on torpedoes for their damage.

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Torpedoes are a pretty problematic weapon in themselves; it's the ultimate feast or famine weapon, most of the time relying on your opponent's stupidity in order to punish them.

Sometimes almost every torp lands, other times you get nothing. 

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As long as WG balances ships using player population, I1JN torp DD buffs isn't happening. 

WG has said again and again that "IJN torp DDs are fine because it has a high player population". Even if the average performance of the IJN torp boats are rock bottom, it's OK as long as many people are playing it. Heck they even said that they aren't removing the 20km Shima torps even if it's garbage "because it's the most used torpedo option" (ignoring the fact that the 20km torps are the stock torp option).

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Since they aren't being realistic with IJN torpedo performance vs other navies, I would settle for a balance compromise.

Maybe take one tune off of each launcher above 3 in number and decrease the reload time by a minute so they actually get to use the damn torpedo's. Why let the Benham and the German DDs have all the fun...

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never gonna happen my dude, the glory days of the IJN torpedo boats are dead, i dont know what the torp detection was on IJN DD torps before the nerf, but i think just putting it to 1.5km detection would make a world of difference to them

Edited by tcbaker777

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Bring back my minekazie of old!!!!!!!she was so vicious. :Smile_teethhappy:

My Kamikaze R reminds me a lot of her . But Minekazie was so much meaner.

Edited by Versili

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2 hours ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

So hoping we can discuss a reasonable way to Buff the IJN torp DDs since with CV rework, Flood Mechanics changes, their HP pools, their guns, the radar, and ever increasing numbers of rapid fire gunships that can can take them out.

I've been back and forth with Umbaretz in another thread over this. Suffice to say it's been an uphill battle. Last thing I posted in it was suggesting, based on some of the points they are insisting on make the .3 km added to spotting range necessary that at the very least -

Mutsuki, Kagero, and Yugumo (and possibly Hat and Shira as they are still pseudo torp boats) - as well as any nerfed premium with 2x launchers, changes to a .1 km increase (so instead of 1.6/1.7 km it'd be 1.4/1.5 km depending on speed). It's a difference, but not as big as one, especially for the fact most ships have similar launchers at this tier. Beyond that, gonna take a lot more debating. For Fubuki (Shinonome) and Akatsuki - .2 km increase seeing as they use 3 launchers, a less noticeable buff, but still saves around half a second on the torp being spotted. Shimakaze stays untouched - other than bringing her 20 km torps down to 1.7 km spotting range. The baseline reaction time from the moment they are spotted is around 9.5 seconds at that spotting range - which is more warning than your going to get from Gearing and Pan-Asia Gearing like ship and their 10 torps. And beyond that fired at max range it takes 110.5 seconds to reach the range they are spotted, plus the 9.5 till impact from that point. You sail in a straight line long enough for it to hit you - you earned the paddlin. And I'm not even a DD main, I'm more CV/BB. 

 

I think those two adjustments are more than fair. If I had my way - IJN would go back to the same loose formula all DD's that aren't PA use except Shima, that would still have a slightly higher range than the rest for balance cause 3x5 launchers. And she doesn't have abysmal rate of fire like the others. but setting I think it's 62-65 knot torpedoes for IJN torp boats to 1.4 for ships with 2 launchers and 1.5 for ships with 3, and the 66+ knot torps to 1/5 and 1.6 respectively is a more than fair compromise.

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11 minutes ago, tcbaker777 said:

i dont know what the torp detection was on IJN DD torps before the nerf

They had the exact same detection as every other ship with a torpedo of the same speed. So at top tiers, upgraded Fletcher vs Yugumo had they not nerfed IJN both would have a 1.4 km spotting range. Kami R that was untouched - 1.4 km spotting range, same as any other ship that would have a 68 knot torpedo. T-22 vs Mut - they'd have both had a 1.3 km spotting range. With Mut being the best example how insane it is at some points. Both have 2x3 launchers. T-22 has a slightly faster reload, but 1/2 km less range and 700 less damage. But T-22 has better AA and guns that are better to engage other ships. Not to mention having 4 guns vs only 2 on Mut.

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