CV in coop

[DrHolmes52]

Which line would be the least painful to go from T4-T6?

For some future list of directives, I would like to have the option of using CVs.

[ItsSubmersible]

---

I have Langley and Hosho currently. I seem to do a LOT better in Hosho for some reason. It's farthest along for now. @ 11k until Ryujo.  I think it is because it has AP bombs and I get a lot of cits/damage from them. The rockets are easier to use on Langley. Torps are about equal in ease of use.

 

I'm a noob at cv's, so it's a casual perspective.

[DrHolmes52]

1 minute ago, ItsSubmersible said:

---

I have Langley and Hosho currently. I seem to do a LOT better in Hosho for some reason. It's farthest along for now. @ 11k until Ryujo.  I think it is because it has AP bombs and I get a lot of cits/damage from them. The rockets are easier to use on Langley. Torps are about equal in ease of use.

 

I'm a noob at cv's, so it's a casual perspective.

I'm hoping to reach your perspective level someday.

My only concern with the Hosho is they may un-buff it.

[ItsSubmersible]

Hosho DOES seem a bit overwhelming for that tier. I ran it around in random a couple times just to test it out, T3-5 players seem to sail in straight lines and makes my life easier:) It would be bad if they zap the torps and take it back down to one per strike, unless they up the damage some.

Only bad part of cv's is everyone screaming at you to come cover them (I guess they think these things have jets, not biplanes).

[HazeGrayUnderway]

IMO, USN in the long run.

Why?

IJN CVs at Tier IV & VI are better.  Grinding them will be easier.  Ryujo in Operations is a killer.  This is great!

 

But Shokaku & Implacable in Tier VIII aren't all that good.  I disliked most of the squads they had.  Lexington OTOH, all 3 of her squad types are viable choices.  With Sexi Lexi, if I am forced to use either the DBs, TBs, Rocket planes due to squadron rotation, I still feel fine.  Implacable isn't like that at all.  Shokaku just doesn't feel right, but maybe that's me having Kaga interfering in that.

 

A solid Tier VIII CV is crucial because that's where you're going to be grinding with the longest.  Implacable was mediocre a.f.

3 minutes ago, ItsSubmersible said:

Hosho DOES seem a bit overwhelming for that tier. I ran it around in random a couple times just to test it out, T3-5 players seem to sail in straight lines and makes my life easier:) It would be bad if they zap the torps and take it back down to one per strike, unless they up the damage some.

Only bad part of cv's is everyone screaming at you to come cover them (I guess they think these things have jets, not biplanes).

I have never seen anyone demand air cover in PVE.  Hell, when I play my DDs, I don't want fighter cover because my Shimakaze will still swat planes well enough and not get hit 

[ItsSubmersible]

I was playing around with Lexington in PTS. I like it, but T8+ AA is brutal.

[DrHolmes52]

4 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

IMO, USN in the long run.

Why?

IJN CVs at Tier IV & VI are better.  Grinding them will be easier.  Ryujo in Operations is a killer.  This is great!

 

But Shokaku & Implacable in Tier VIII aren't all that good.  I disliked most of the squads they had.  Lexington OTOH, all 3 of her squad types are viable choices.  With Sexi Lexi, if I am forced to use either the DBs, TBs, Rocket planes due to squadron rotation, I still feel fine.  Implacable isn't like that at all.  Shokaku just doesn't feel right, but maybe that's me having Kaga interfering in that.

 

A solid Tier VIII CV is crucial because that's where you're going to be grinding with the longest.  Implacable was mediocre a.f.

I have never seen anyone demand air cover in PVE.  Hell, when I play my DDs, I don't want fighter cover because my Shimakaze will still swat planes well enough and not get hit 

I'm probably stopping at T6.

[Kizarvexis]

19 minutes ago, DrHolmes52 said:

Which line would be the least painful to go from T4-T6?

For some future list of directives, I would like to have the option of using CVs.

Casual perspective here as CVs are the ships I play the least.

 

All three nations have a 3k XP B hull for the T4 and 68k XP for the T6. Hosho has AP bombs, Langley and Hermes have HE bombs. The type of DB bomb stays the same type up the line, with the exception of some premiums. If you are into going up the CV chain, go with @HazeGrayUnderway's advice. If you are just looking for getting T6 CVs for the events, go with the IJN.

[HazeGrayUnderway]

4 minutes ago, ItsSubmersible said:

I was playing around with Lexington in PTS. I like it, but T8+ AA is brutal.

Oh, it can get far worse.  Being a Tier VIII CV in PVE and you've got nothing but Tier IX-X ships.  When you see the weakest AA is a Henri IV, you know you're in for a treat.

 

Lord help you if you have to carry the game as a Tier VIII CV in a Tier X game with that AA.  Midway, Audacious, Hakuryu planes in Tier X can still get shredded.  Tier VIII planes evaporate.

3 minutes ago, DrHolmes52 said:

I'm probably stopping at T6.

If you're stopping at Tier VI, then Ryujo.

Ryujo.

Ryujo.

RYUJO.

 

The rocket planes are serviceable.

The TBs are great.

Master use of the AP Dive Bombers which require more finesse than HE ones.  The damage she can do with these can be substantial, with Citadel damage, especially in Operations where time is often a factor for objectives.  Battleships often are objective ships in Ops, and the AP DBs can cause great damage in one run.

[ItsSubmersible]

4 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

IMO, USN in the long run.

Why?

IJN CVs at Tier IV & VI are better.  Grinding them will be easier.  Ryujo in Operations is a killer.  This is great!

 

But Shokaku & Implacable in Tier VIII aren't all that good.  I disliked most of the squads they had.  Lexington OTOH, all 3 of her squad types are viable choices.  With Sexi Lexi, if I am forced to use either the DBs, TBs, Rocket planes due to squadron rotation, I still feel fine.  Implacable isn't like that at all.  Shokaku just doesn't feel right, but maybe that's me having Kaga interfering in that.

 

A solid Tier VIII CV is crucial because that's where you're going to be grinding with the longest.  Implacable was mediocre a.f.

I have never seen anyone demand air cover in PVE.  Hell, when I play my DDs, I don't want fighter cover because my Shimakaze will still swat planes well enough and not get hit 

I get it fairly frequently: Didn't scout quick enough, didn't kill the DD for them, didn't go from end of the map to the other quick enough, didn't do something or other. I just ignore it and do what I can.

[_CamperBoy102_]

I have all CV..I think most friendly and cozy 2 play its British line.this line help me 2 understand the cv rework 

[Estimated_Prophet]

25 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

If you're stopping at Tier VI, then Ryujo.

Ryujo.

Ryujo.

RYUJO.

Like it for KW, otherwise not so much.

Used to love it for Newport, but then all carriers got the Sliders bull elephant treatment, and they became no better in that op than a rusty wreck about to be striped clean by illegal salvers.

[Blorgh2017]

Is it even worth it to play CV's in PvE these days? I'm genuinely curious. 

Coop has smaller and faster matches... which might go against the reworked CV's that are pretty much akin to a DoT (damage over time) class. WG pretty much wants the CV's to be like a vulture that lingers around a lion's feast, waiting for a piece of bone to be thrown its way... but I'm not sure if that's gonna even work for Coop, let alone it being any fun.

Maybe it's just me, but I rarely see any CV's in Coop ever since 0.8.5... and the changes in 0.8.7 didn't seem to change that at all. More than half the time when I see one, it's usually a bot CV vs a bot CV... and if there's ever a human CV, they mostly do so-so at best. Sure, there're still some human CV players in Coop who score very high... but I barely see them, almost to the point of feeling like I can count them with just one hand. It just feels like they aren't worth it anymore. 

It seems not much different in the Operations too. Most CV players seem to do... just okay. Middling at best, usually scoring near the bottom... just like the Coop... while losing a truck ton of planes in the process. I only had one match in Operations recently where a CV player scored among the top 3 on the team score card, coming in at the second place. But it was a lose, and the CV player was just damage farming after all hopes of completing the missions were lost.

Then there's this little "gem" (/s):

Spoiler

Ever since 0.8.5, the plane casualty rate has sky rocketed. Then, I became disgusted when the implied process of how WG balances their game became known:

 

It's a long video, but the jist of it is that WG actually (1) balances the ships based on the popularity, and not the performance... and (2) considers at least one CV game per week to be considered as the rework success. When I added the two together and let it sink in for a while, I realized just how atrocious and baffling the whole thing is. It doesn't matter whether you have a good game, a bad game, or even a horrible game in your CV. As long as people are playing at least one CV game per week, the rework is a resounding success~ (/s).

 

 

So I put off playing my CV's at all, not even once, ever since.

Of course, that being said, if I said that I was utterly and completely done with playing CV's, then it would be a lie. I didn't mind the old RTS style, but I liked the new reworked game play little more. I would love to play my CV's again... but I just can't see myself adding to WG's data spreadsheet that keeps on saying "rework is a success," while they kept bashing the ship type with a sledgehammer (when they should have used a scalpel).

These days, it feels like I'm getting a mixed signal regarding CV's in PvE. Some seems to say they're still okay, while others say the planes still melt too fast while there's not enough time to do anything. Nevertheless, I would genuinely like to know if it's worth picking them up again.

[DrHolmes52]

12 minutes ago, Blorgh2017 said:

Is it even worth it to play CV's in PvE these days? I'm genuinely curious. 

Coop has smaller and faster matches... which might go against the reworked CV's that are pretty much akin to a DoT (damage over time) class. WG pretty much wants the CV's to be like a vulture that lingers around a lion's feast, waiting for a piece of bone to be thrown its way... but I'm not sure if that's gonna even work for Coop, let alone it being any fun.

Maybe it's just me, but I rarely see any CV's in Coop ever since 0.8.5... and the changes in 0.8.7 didn't seem to change that at all. More than half the time when I see one, it's usually a bot CV vs a bot CV... and if there's ever a human CV, they mostly do so-so at best. Sure, there're still some human CV players in Coop who score very high... but I barely see them, almost to the point of feeling like I can count them with just one hand. It just feels like they aren't worth it anymore. 

It seems not much different in the Operations too. Most CV players seem to do... just okay. Middling at best, usually scoring near the bottom... just like the Coop... while losing a truck ton of planes in the process. I only had one match in Operations recently where a CV player scored among the top 3 on the team score card, coming in at the second place. But it was a lose, and the CV player was just damage farming after all hopes of completing the missions were lost.

Then there's this little "gem" (/s):

  Reveal hidden contents

Ever since 0.8.5, the plane casualty rate has sky rocketed. Then, I became disgusted when the implied process of how WG balances their game became known:

 

It's a long video, but the jist of it is that WG actually (1) balances the ships based on the popularity, and not the performance... and (2) considers at least one CV game per week to be considered as the rework success. When I added the two together and let it sink in for a while, I realized just how atrocious and baffling the whole thing is. It doesn't matter whether you have a good game, a bad game, or even a horrible game in your CV. As long as people are playing at least one CV game per week, the rework is a resounding success~ (/s).

 

 

So I put off playing my CV's at all, not even once, ever since.

Of course, that being said, if I said that I was utterly and completely done with playing CV's, then it would be a lie. I didn't mind the old RTS style, but I liked the new reworked game play little more. I would love to play my CV's again... but I just can't see myself adding to WG's data spreadsheet that keeps on saying "rework is a success," while they kept bashing the ship type with a sledgehammer (when they should have used a scalpel).

These days, it feels like I'm getting a mixed signal regarding CV's in PvE. Some seems to say they're still okay, while others say the planes still melt too fast while there's not enough time to do anything. Nevertheless, I would genuinely like to know if it's worth picking them up again.

I would really only want it for the spotting/rocket/bomb/torpedo hit missions.

[Blorgh2017]

Just now, DrHolmes52 said:

I would really only want it for the spotting/rocket/bomb/torpedo hit missions.

Yes, of course. I understand. I have no issues with other people playing CV's, including you. What others do is their own business, not mine. My apologies if I sounded bit too... aggressive. I didn't mean it for you. I was just curious about the state of CV's in PvE these days, that's all.

[DrHolmes52]

1 minute ago, Blorgh2017 said:

Yes, of course. I understand. I have no issues with other people playing CV's, including you. What others do is their own business, not mine. My apologies if I sounded bit too... aggressive. I didn't mean it for you. I was just curious about the state of CV's in PvE these days, that's all.

I understand and didn't take offense.  I doubt I would find the play in and of itself very enjoyable.

But AT liked it.

[Estimated_Prophet]

2 minutes ago, Blorgh2017 said:

Yes, of course. I understand. I have no issues with other people playing CV's, including you. What others do is their own business, not mine. My apologies if I sounded bit too... aggressive. I didn't mean it for you. I was just curious about the state of CV's in PvE these days, that's all.

AS long as you accept that the salad days of farming Co-op with a carrier are gone forever, it's perfectly fine to run a carrier in Co-op.

The only time you'll do really well though is if;

• Your team is mostly, or all bots but you.
• The bots don't potato so bad it leaves you all alone, or do so well there's nothing for you to attack.
• You aren't bottom tiered.
• You manage to get into a good position where the remaining bots can't mob you; though this isn't necesaarily a death sentence; I wound up playing ring-around-the-(island)rosie with several bots on Hotspot once. Fortiunately same tier, so my planes lasted long enough to help attack them.
• Your carrier actually has useful secondaries. If you get mobbed, you'll need them.
• You can get into position to cap. You may sink the bots, but they may have capped, and you'll still lose.

If you don't mind all that, sure; play a carrier in Co-op.

Mind you; what's been done to Hosho and Langley means they're actually dangerous in Co-op again, just like in Randoms. Who knows how long that will last though.

[Blorgh2017]

1 minute ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

AS long as you accept that the salad days of farming Co-op with a carrier are gone forever, it's perfectly fine to run a carrier in Co-op.

The only time you'll do really well though is if;

• Your team is mostly, or all bots but you.
• The bots don't potato so bad it leaves you all alone, or do so well there's nothing for you to attack.
• You aren't bottom tiered.
• You manage to get into a good position where the remaining bots can't mob you; though this isn't necesaarily a death sentence; I wound up playing ring-around-the-(island)rosie with several bots on Hotspot once. Fortiunately same tier, so my planes lasted long enough to help attack them.
• Your carrier actually has useful secondaries. If you get mobbed, you'll need them.
• You can get into position to cap. You may sink the bots, but they may have capped, and you'll still lose.

If you don't mind all that, sure; play a carrier in Co-op.

Mind you; what's been done to Hosho and Langley means they're actually dangerous in Co-op again, just like in Randoms. Who knows how long that will last though.

In short: when RNGesus blesses you with MM. In the Coop mode. Yikes.

Yeah, sure, like that's actually even a good way to play the ship type. Uh-huh. (//////sssssss)

Please pardon my lack of... enthusiasm. I don't have anything against you, so I'm not directing my sarcasm at you.

 

As for Tier IV CV's, let's face it: WG did that just to pad their data statistic, trying to force more people to start playing the ship type. The whole idea of weak Tier IV at the start of the rework was because of the Tier III ships with no AA, plus seal clubbing... but as always, WG does what WG does best: i.e. doing anything and everything to pad the numbers on their spreadsheets. 

I don't even have Hosho and Langley in my port anymore. I sure am not gonna buy them again for this. Smh. 

[CaptHarlock_222]

1 hour ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

IMO, USN in the long run.

Why?

IJN CVs at Tier IV & VI are better.  Grinding them will be easier.  Ryujo in Operations is a killer.  This is great!

 

But Shokaku & Implacable in Tier VIII aren't all that good.  I disliked most of the squads they had.  Lexington OTOH, all 3 of her squad types are viable choices.  With Sexi Lexi, if I am forced to use either the DBs, TBs, Rocket planes due to squadron rotation, I still feel fine.  Implacable isn't like that at all.  Shokaku just doesn't feel right, but maybe that's me having Kaga interfering in that.

 

A solid Tier VIII CV is crucial because that's where you're going to be grinding with the longest.  Implacable was mediocre a.f.

I have never seen anyone demand air cover in PVE.  Hell, when I play my DDs, I don't want fighter cover because my Shimakaze will still swat planes well enough and not get hit 

That matches my experience as well. I can also add that Hakuryu isn't doing so great right now either, especially with everyone dragging out their T10s, the flak walls in the match I played in her for my SC were murderous, barely did 30k dmg and lost almost every group I sent out. USN may be a slightly harder grind, but is the most viable CV line in the long run. Don't have Midway yet, but based on my experience with Lady Lex, she looks to be the best T10 for general use. Hard to go wrong when you drop 2 torps per plane, have beefy HE bombs and the excellent Tiny Tim which can damage and set fire to anything (even detonated a Baltimore once with them).

[Estimated_Prophet]

1 hour ago, Blorgh2017 said:

I don't even have Hosho and Langley in my port anymore. I sure am not gonna buy them again for this. Smh. 

Mind you; I’m not the biggest fan of the rework, so the Snark is strong in this one...

It’s actually not quite as bad as you say; but then besides the snark, I’m also someone with 4,500-5,000 mostly RTS carrier games under my belt, so the experience helps a lot.

Somewhat related; I haven’t really played the new carriers much in Randoms; partly because of not wanting to inflict them on other players; and yes, because of certain weaknesses in my skills.

That’s what makes playing them in Co-op so much fun. You can go to town blasting things, and not have to worry about screwing over some new player, or any player, for that matter.

[ItsSubmersible]

Just now, Estimated_Prophet said:

Mind you; I’m not the biggest fan of the rework, so the Snark is strong in this one...

It’s actually not quite as bad as you say; but then besides the snark, I’m also someone with 4,500-5,000 mostly RTS carrier games under my belt, so the experience helps a lot.

Somewhat related; I haven’t really played the new carriers much in Randoms; partly because of not wanting to inflict them on other players; and yes, because of certain weaknesses in my skills.

That’s what makes playing them in Co-op so much fun. You can go to town blasting things, and not have to worry about screwing over some new player, or any player, for that matter.

That's why I blast away with them in coop mostly. I won't be messing up someone else's game. 

[HazeGrayUnderway]

4 hours ago, CaptHarlock_222 said:

That matches my experience as well. I can also add that Hakuryu isn't doing so great right now either, especially with everyone dragging out their T10s, the flak walls in the match I played in her for my SC were murderous, barely did 30k dmg and lost almost every group I sent out. USN may be a slightly harder grind, but is the most viable CV line in the long run. Don't have Midway yet, but based on my experience with Lady Lex, she looks to be the best T10 for general use. Hard to go wrong when you drop 2 torps per plane, have beefy HE bombs and the excellent Tiny Tim which can damage and set fire to anything (even detonated a Baltimore once with them).

Tier X things are different, they're all pretty good despite some lackluster tech tree representation by IJN & RN CVs at Tier VIII.

 

Hakuryu's AP DBs can land some pretty crazy damage, on top of her nice TBs.  Those 2 combined make her a fantastic Capital Ship Killer.  But AP DBs as I mentioned before, require finesse.

 

For the RN's case, Impacable sucked balls due to 1 big reason affecting 2 of her squads:  Not enough ordnance.

Not enough rockets.

Not enough bombs.

Audacious fixes those problems and for the first and ONLY time of the ENTIRE RN CV Line, all 3 of your squad types are viable, good units.

[CaptHarlock_222]

1 hour ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Tier X things are different, they're all pretty good despite some lackluster tech tree representation by IJN & RN CVs.

 

Hakuryu's AP DBs can land some pretty crazy damage, on top of her nice TBs.  Those 2 combined make her a fantastic Capital Ship Killer.  But AP DBs as I mentioned before, require finesse.

 

For the RN's case, Impacable sucked balls due to 1 big reason affecting 2 of her squads:  Not enough ordnance.

Not enough rockets.

Not enough bombs.

Audacious fixes those problems and for the first and ONLY time of the ENTIRE RN CV Line, all 3 of your squad types are viable, good units.

I wouldn't describe Hak's TB's as nice since the flood nerf hit. I always used the ones we have now, despite the former existence of the 4 per run type (the arming distance was just too long). The with her TBs to me is that at 2 planes with 1 torp each per run, I'm dependent on making multiple runs and those planes get chewed up quite fast unless I'm flying against lower tier stuff. I think I'd be happy with a mere reorganization to 3 or 4 planes per run, even if all other parameters remained the same. 

I will fully agree with you on the AP DBs, but lately all of Hakuryu's planes seem easy to shoot down from my perspective, even with full survivability skills on the captain. I don't know what, if anything changed, but I could just be getting bad RNG on the 'in your face flak bursts' lately. I was getting them pretty bad today when I played for my SC, that's for sure. Might give it a few more runs and see what I can do, but I don't have high hopes, especially with everyone crowding in to co-op to get containers.

[HazeGrayUnderway]

Midway torpedoes got nerfed hard maybe a month after the Rebork went Live.

3 planes, 2 torps each

4.2k damage per

35kts

Very slow to narrow the torpedo bomber aiming arc.

Wide arc

 

Hakuryu

2 planes, 1 torp each

9.3k damage per

50kts

Good speed in narrowing the torpedo bomber aiming arc.

 

Audacious

3 planes, 1 torp each

5.9k damage per

Fastest narrowing effect for the aiming arc.

Very good converging effect if allowed with more time for a better narrowing effect.

 

Midway's TBs p*ss me off because not only is the drop pattern wide and not truly concentrated, not only does it take long for the aiming effect to start narrowing, but the damage of the torpedoes are pitiful.  It angers me when you hit some BBs and each torpedo does 2k damage once TDS / Torpedo Bulges take effect.

 

I don't like relying on DOTs as it's unreliable damage.  CVs can't even land DOTS at the rate like an HE spamming Cruiser can.  Not at the rates you need to be doing for a 3-5 minute game in Co-op.

[Ensign_Cthulhu]

I love co-op and I love carriers... but absent a place to go and rack up torp hits and spotting ribbons, or an ethical place to play the Hosho once you're done actually grinding it, I really think it's not a CV player's happy place unless you're willing and able to mount a bucketload of flags.

I went for Implacable as my T8 carrier because WG had given away her permacamo early this year (and the crates which start the collection that gives it are IIRC either in the Armory or coming to it soon). There are some missions late in the Honourable Service campaign that are stupidly, almost dishonestly easy if you have a CV at T8 or better (though of course those are not PvE), and that alone made getting her worth it.

In PvE she is, as I have said, my go-to for farming various things - especially for some directives both recent and distant which have demanded a ship at T7 or better. In that case it can be worth coming home with a credit deficit if I get to advance some sort of mission.