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CTMAADawson

Smolensk and impending nerf

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I got 114k coal and it'll be another few months before I get the other 130k. How long do you think the original Smolensk will be available before WG nerfs it to heck or make it steel/research points only? And once the nerf happens, will it even be worth anything?

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Aw that's cute. You think Wargaming will nerf a Russian ship. I remember being that naïve. Then the CV rework hit.

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My guess is it won't be nerfed. They'll yank it, probably before the usual 4 or 6 month run a coal ship gets. And I'm thinking it will be pulled permanently. I'd say another month or two is the most it will run.

If WG doesn't admit the ship is a bit busted, then I'll be a bit concerned about how well the game is doing. Pushing OP ships and reducing premium shop prices are not good signs.

 

Had a Smolensk on the red team last night, royally pissed off our entire team while the rest of his died. Ended up being the last one alive, and we took great pleasure in chasing him down and killing him.

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If you watched some WG streams: The ship isn't above the usual parameters... it's just the unicorns that have those results.

Just checked: her results took a beating since last week, she is just a bit above the HIV.

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I expect a nerf. I would guess they will nerf the range to something like 16 with both AFT and range mod. I would also expect a slight reload nerf. 

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Sounds an awful lot like a "this is OP thread" thinly disguised as something else.

:Smile_trollface:

Edited by xalmgrey

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The stats have actually sharply gone down as more people got her :Smile_trollface:

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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Best possible Smolensk nerf: Fixing the ****ing shell render lag so we can tell where in the smoke they're coming from and smash them.

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5 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

The stats have actually sharply gone down as more people got her :Smile_trollface:

Two weeks ago she was close to the Stalingrad WR and damage wise.

Now it's 40k games later.

Was the same with the Jean Bart.

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10 minutes ago, AJTP89 said:

My guess is it won't be nerfed. They'll yank it, probably before the usual 4 or 6 month run a coal ship gets. And I'm thinking it will be pulled permanently. I'd say another month or two is the most it will run.

If WG doesn't admit the ship is a bit busted, then I'll be a bit concerned about how well the game is doing. Pushing OP ships and reducing premium shop prices are not good signs.

 

Had a Smolensk on the red team last night, royally pissed off our entire team while the rest of his died. Ended up being the last one alive, and we took great pleasure in chasing him down and killing him.

They never admitted GC was OP. It simply disappeared during the summer with no comment by WG at all, and then showed up in the xmas crates....:Smile_teethhappy:

BPa7Y1P.png

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Just now, awiggin said:

They never admitted GC was OP. It simply disappeared during the summer with no comment by WG at all, and then showed up in the xmas crates....:Smile_teethhappy:

BPa7Y1P.png

True. But WWIII had just broken out over the GC, I'm guessing they didn't want to deal with it anymore, and quietly made it go away. 

I don't think they'll admit outright Smolensk is OP, it will just go away one of these updates, never to return (except in loot crates, where all OP ships end up).

If they leave it in for the full run, and continue the line that it's completely balanced, then something's rotten in St. Petersburg.

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8 minutes ago, Erebthoron said:

Two weeks ago she was close to the Stalingrad WR and damage wise.

Now it's 40k games later.

Was the same with the Jean Bart.

It's almost always like this with newly released ships.  Even High Tier Tech Tree ships are like this when they're new.  When the RN CL Line was new, everybody got scared of Minotaur's fast firing RN CL AP.  She was averaging Moskva and Zao levels of damage.  There were a lot of calls for nerfs against Minotaur but WG flipped everyone off.

Minotaur was fine.

It was those veteran players that FreeXP'd to Tier X Mino on something like Day 1 of the RN CL release that were causing lots of havoc.  New ship that many aren't familiar in facing, used exclusively by veteran players at the time.  Yeah the performance was going to be high early on.

Then people got used to dealing with her, finding out she's actually squishy, etc.

As time progressed, the real performance came through.  As time, more battles piled on, she dropped in performance towards Des Moines' Damage Average.  Matter of fact, right now DM & Mino stats are extremely close to each other.

 

Anyways, I expect Smolensk's stats to drop a bit more.  Great players will continue to do well with her.  Captain Average Joe will be more susceptible to the punishment on her.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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According to Sub_Octavian 1-2 months to see sizable data, another 1-2 to see how it functions within the meta. So you got 2 months at the least.

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8 minutes ago, loco_max said:

How long was the Kutuzov on sale?

Quite a while, actually.  I held off for a LONG time before buying it.  I don't recall much chatter about it being OP...a few accusations here and there, but nothing overwhelming.  I kind of wanted it, but at T8 it was a bit pricey for my tastes.  When they announced they were going to pull it, I went ahead and bought it.  In the right hands, Kutuzov CAN be OP (same with Belfast).  The thing with OP cruisers, though, is they are usually fragile.  They can be punished harshly for mistakes.  Battleships are tougher, and destroyers have concealment.  Belfast and Kutuzov have smoke (ahem, like Smolensk), and if a player uses that smoke wisely, and doesn't crutch too heavily on it, those ships can be very strong.  Over rely on smoke, however, and you can be punished for it.  So, the skill floor can be fairly high (takes good players to do well), but the skill ceiling can also be very high (good players can make the ship OP).

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1 minute ago, desmo_2 said:

Quite a while, actually.  I held off for a LONG time before buying it.  I don't recall much chatter about it being OP...a few accusations here and there, but nothing overwhelming.  I kind of wanted it, but at T8 it was a bit pricey for my tastes.  When they announced they were going to pull it, I went ahead and bought it.  In the right hands, Kutuzov CAN be OP (same with Belfast).  The thing with OP cruisers, though, is they are usually fragile.  They can be punished harshly for mistakes.  Battleships are tougher, and destroyers have concealment.  Belfast and Kutuzov have smoke (ahem, like Smolensk), and if a player uses that smoke wisely, and doesn't crutch too heavily on it, those ships can be very strong.  Over rely on smoke, however, and you can be punished for it.  So, the skill floor can be fairly high (takes good players to do well), but the skill ceiling can also be very high (good players can make the ship OP).

Fully agree desmo_2, and thanks for the feedback. Facing same tier battleships,  cruisers are way fragile, which is by the way, accurate. 

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Ship is not OP everyone else is just under performing against it.  

wg say smolensk is doing fine , they also admitted that the Kremlin and another bb are overperforming , nothings happened yet . my guess is youll have a while. 

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9 minutes ago, desmo_2 said:

Quite a while, actually.  I held off for a LONG time before buying it.  I don't recall much chatter about it being OP...a few accusations here and there, but nothing overwhelming.  I kind of wanted it, but at T8 it was a bit pricey for my tastes.  When they announced they were going to pull it, I went ahead and bought it.  In the right hands, Kutuzov CAN be OP (same with Belfast).  The thing with OP cruisers, though, is they are usually fragile.  They can be punished harshly for mistakes.  Battleships are tougher, and destroyers have concealment.  Belfast and Kutuzov have smoke (ahem, like Smolensk), and if a player uses that smoke wisely, and doesn't crutch too heavily on it, those ships can be very strong.  Over rely on smoke, however, and you can be punished for it.  So, the skill floor can be fairly high (takes good players to do well), but the skill ceiling can also be very high (good players can make the ship OP).

IMO, the reason why Kutuzov wasn't that big a deal at first was the era of the game she entered.

BFT & AFT used to buff 155mm or smaller guns, not the current 139mm or smaller requirement.

This is a screenshot of those days.  Tier V Konigsberg with AFT & BFT for the main battery.  19.8km gun range.  I used to attack Carriers in the back, even in "Ocean" map.  The CV would try to snipe the enemy CV.  I'd creep up forward in stealth.  The CV gets some hits to force DCP use.  Then I'd open up at long range, spam shells to stick a few fires, and then run from all the other ships trying to kill me :Smile_trollface:

5L6Gdgv.jpg

Old Tier VI Cleveland in those days reached to around 17.6km.

In this era, Omaha used to be called "OPmaha."

 

But when the AFT & BFT Nerf hit, all CLs lost that long range ability, interestingly, WG made sure Kutuzov retained its range as if it was still in the AFT / BFT buffing CL guns era.

Some additional goodness in the era:

jMCpbxR.jpg

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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When are we getting OP Soviet CVs? Maybe they will have 406mm turrets on the side (maybe 2 triple turrets per side). On top of that give them SU-25s with Air to ship missiles.

oh you cant kill them either. Because they will have the Chernobyl trait, where if you dev strike them a nuclear blast falls upon the map and kills everyone. Leaving the game in a draw. 

 

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43 minutes ago, AJTP89 said:

My guess is it won't be nerfed. They'll yank it, probably before the usual 4 or 6 month run a coal ship gets. And I'm thinking it will be pulled permanently. I'd say another month or two is the most it will run.

If WG doesn't admit the ship is a bit busted, then I'll be a bit concerned about how well the game is doing. Pushing OP ships and reducing premium shop prices are not good signs.

 

Had a Smolensk on the red team last night, royally pissed off our entire team while the rest of his died. Ended up being the last one alive, and we took great pleasure in chasing him down and killing him.

Sub said they will adjust it if needed, that it technically is not a premium ship but a reward ship.

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People always notice the skilled players leveraging ships with exploitable strengths and minimizing their weaknesses.  Smolensk is no different, I have seen a bunch of people fail in the Smolensk who are in the 50% and under crowd, they can't figure out how to push it's dpm potential without exposing themselves and get wrecked early, and run away the whole match on low health.  People who have great games in the Flint or Atlanta are the ones who know how to fire from a safe range and position, relocating as needed.  The people who do great in Flint/Atlanta are the same people doing great at tier 10 in the Smolensk.  People who do 15-20k damage and get dev struck in the tier 7 cruisers are doing 30-40k damage in the Smolensk and getting dev struck.

Players are OP - ships are simply more or less exploitable with special strengths and weaknesses.

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9 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

But when the AFT & BFT Nerf hit, all CLs lost that long range ability, interestingly, WG made sure Kutuzov retained its range as if it was still in the AFT / BFT buffing CL guns era.

Some additional goodness in the era:

I'd note that Kutuzov released with fairly low gun stats relative to her high tier placement. It was basically mandatory to run AFT/BFT/EM in order to get reasonably competitive stats, and if she had released with her current stats it would have resulted in completely insane range and firepower. I would say that Kut essentially was nerfed to make her only as good as she is now with those skills, and that the issue they represented to future CL premiums was why the threshold was changed down.

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Why would they nerf Smolensk when they never nerfed Haragumo or Kitakaze? WG loves HE spam OP ships so they can balance the game against BBs and their insanely OP AP.

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29 minutes ago, Aetreus said:

I'd note that Kutuzov released with fairly low gun stats relative to her high tier placement. It was basically mandatory to run AFT/BFT/EM in order to get reasonably competitive stats, and if she had released with her current stats it would have resulted in completely insane range and firepower. I would say that Kut essentially was nerfed to make her only as good as she is now with those skills, and that the issue they represented to future CL premiums was why the threshold was changed down.

I recall her stats were comparable to 155 Mogami, albeit with fewer guns. Mogami never got the same buffs though and instead got hit with nerf after nerf to her 155s.

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