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dechion

Are aircraft reserves damage immune?

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When surface ships take HE fire there is a chance of damaging modules in addition to the potential for direct damage and/or starting fires. 

I don't think it's possible to damage the aircraft sitting on deck when HE hits a CV. 

Are those planes effectively immune while on deck? 

If so, why? (Ask the IJN at Midway what it's like to have a loaded strike worth of aircraft on your deck when you start taking damage)

I'm not trying to start an anti-CV thread, there are plenty of those already. I'm simply curious if aircraft in ready reserve are immune to damage while still on deck, and if so why.

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1 minute ago, ElectroVeeDub said:

Well... the planes aren't on deck while the CV is in a match... they're in the air. Or in the hangar theoretically.  You can't see aircraft on deck outside of the port.

Interesting. 

I assumed that the planes launched from the deck.

Then again there is no crew in sight on any ship (or on the tanks in WoT for that matter). Perhaps it's easier to model that way, or they would get an MA rating if there were crew visible, not sure why that choice was made.

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4 minutes ago, dechion said:

Interesting. 

I assumed that the planes launched from the deck.

Then again there is no crew in sight on any ship (or on the tanks in WoT for that matter). Perhaps it's easier to model that way, or they would get an MA rating if there were crew visible, not sure why that choice was made.

They do launch from the deck... but they just sorta magically appear, then instantly take off. You don't actually see any planes on deck while the CV is in game....

Why? Dunno... ask WG... probably a memory saving thing...

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3 minutes ago, ElectroVeeDub said:

They do launch from the deck... but they just sorta magically appear, then instantly take off. You don't actually see any planes on deck while the CV is in game....

Why? Dunno... ask WG... probably a memory saving thing...

Probably so.

The question still stands, if the weapons systems of every other ship class can be damaged by HE shells hitting them, why not aircraft reserves?

Obviously one squadron is in the air, but the rest are on, or in, the ship.

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8 minutes ago, dechion said:

Probably so.

The question still stands, if the weapons systems of every other ship class can be damaged by HE shells hitting them, why not aircraft reserves?

Obviously one squadron is in the air, but the rest are on, or in, the ship.

I think it's a game balancing mechanic. Planes are the same as your main battery.

If your main battery went down every-time because of HE spam, you'd uninstall real quick. It wouldn't be very fun having planes get incapacitated and you're helpless to defend yourself because a IJN torp boat is lobbing HE...

Before 0.8.0 fires on deck would prevent a CV from launching planes. But now they don't. Because of the fire/flood nerfs... CV's rarely burn/flood for long it seems.

Edited by ElectroVeeDub

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That is because, WeeGee felt CV drivers can't multi-task well enough to handle Damage Con, and fly.  To be honest, some fires a CV driver would just let burn.  It also might change how a CV Driver puts mods and flags on his CV.  

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7 minutes ago, ElectroVeeDub said:

I think it's a game balancing mechanic. Planes are the same as your main battery.

If your main battery went down every-time because of HE spam, you'd uninstall real quick. It wouldn't be very fun having planes get incapacitated and you're helpless to defend yourself because a IJN torp boat is lobbing HE...

My main batteries and torpedo tubes do go down from time to time, and yes its annoying. 

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When I CV I see a deck full of aircraft from stem to stern and when I double tap 1, 2 or 3 the chosen group launches. Whether other see them or not I don't know. When I am observing CV after I have been sunk their deck is clear until they launch. 

I think that if planes are on deck when the CV is struck on the deck then both ship and planes should take damage.

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1 hour ago, dechion said:

When surface ships take HE fire there is a chance of damaging modules in addition to the potential for direct damage and/or starting fires. 

I don't think it's possible to damage the aircraft sitting on deck when HE hits a CV. 

Are those planes effectively immune while on deck? 

If so, why? (Ask the IJN at Midway what it's like to have a loaded strike worth of aircraft on your deck when you start taking damage)

I'm not trying to start an anti-CV thread, there are plenty of those already. I'm simply curious if aircraft in ready reserve are immune to damage while still on deck, and if so why.

It’s been fairly well established that the Japanese planes were *not* on deck, but for a maybe a few CAP zeroes, when then US dive bombers attacked.  Shattered Sword goes into great detail about this.

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9 minutes ago, CAPTMUDDXX said:

When I CV I see a deck full of aircraft from stem to stern and when I double tap 1, 2 or 3 the chosen group launches. Whether other see them or not I don't know. When I am observing CV after I have been sunk their deck is clear until they launch. 

I think that if planes are on deck when the CV is struck on the deck then both ship and planes should take damage.

Other players don't see the plans on deck.  They just appear from nowhere.

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4 minutes ago, Burnsy said:

Other players don't see the plans on deck.  They just appear from nowhere.

It is kinda freaky.

I haven't checked, but I can't recall if I destroyed AA guns when HE spamming a CV (probably did).

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1 hour ago, dechion said:

My main batteries and torpedo tubes do go down from time to time, and yes its annoying. 

If you follow the analogy further, parts of the CV's main battery get shot out of the air...or, if the planes are ammunition, the shells get knocked out of the air, something that happens to no other type of ship.  There are always tradeoffs. 

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16 minutes ago, FrodoFraggin said:

It’s been fairly well established that the Japanese planes were *not* on deck, but for a maybe a few CAP zeroes, when then US dive bombers attacked.  Shattered Sword goes into great detail about this.

A WWII carrier that was expecting attack kept her decks clear as much as possible.   At either Eastern Solomons or Santa Cruz, they even pushed some planes overboard, rather than have them on deck to be set on fire/explode/whatever

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At one time I think in early Alpha? ...  I seem to remember WG had a hitbox on flight decks that could be damaged and shut down landing and takeoff until it was repaired.. I can not remember why it was removed?     I expect due to some exploitation from other CV players?  perhaps some other Alpha testers may remember...  Of course now that WG has taken consumables and repairs out of players hands none of this would be any good anyway.      

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18 minutes ago, Burnsy said:

Other players don't see the plans on deck.  They just appear from nowhere.

I clearly state that when I see my CV from camera stern view I see a deck full of planes. After I am sunk and using observer view of another CV there are no planes on their deck until they launch them or fighters self launch. Then they line up and take off in a few seconds.

I also see no planes on a CV deck when I overfly any CV. 

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4 minutes ago, CAPTMUDDXX said:

I clearly state that when I see my CV from camera stern view I see a deck full of planes. After I am sunk and using observer view of another CV there are no planes on their deck until they launch them or fighters self launch. Then they line up and take off in a few seconds.

I also see no planes on a CV deck when I overfly any CV. 

Yes, that is what I said.

You can see your planes on deck, other's cannot.

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2 minutes ago, RA6E_ said:

flight decks that could be damaged and shut down landing and takeoff until it was repaired.

That was when the deck was burning planes could not land nor launch until the fire was out. Damage control for fire fighting and flooding control was manually activated and the same as for all other ships. That went away with update 8.0 and the automatic DCP for CVs was put in place.

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I mean, to answer the original question, hits to the deck do not destroy reserve planes. Probably because it would be really stupid if every game started with CVs airspotting each other for friendly BBs to spam HE at them and wipe out most of their planes before the game even starts. And yes, it's also stupid that CVs can rocket trash DDs and spot the entire enemy fleet before the game really starts, but the solution isn't to make a stupid situation stupider.

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10 minutes ago, CAPTMUDDXX said:

That was when the deck was burning planes could not land nor launch until the fire was out. Damage control for fire fighting and flooding control was manually activated and the same as for all other ships. That went away with update 8.0 and the automatic DCP for CVs was put in place.

LOL..   No that was a completely different thing from what I am speaking of,  which was in Alpha testing maybe...2015?   The flight deck was a separate module which could be damaged and you would wait for repairs or use repair crew to get it back working... I actually thought it was a great idea.     

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We're complaining about planes not being damaged while on the CV while torpedoes don't explode while still loaded on the ship.

 

Hello Chokai!  Courtesy of a USN 127mm secondary shell from a CVE!

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58 minutes ago, RA6E_ said:

The flight deck was a separate module which could be damaged and you would wait for repairs or use repair crew to get it back working... I actually thought it was a great idea.     

I can see that being the case and it was just adjusted/limited/replaced to just fires. If it were both then once a CV started taking hits it would not be able to launch/recover planes from that point on.

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21 hours ago, dechion said:

When surface ships take HE fire there is a chance of damaging modules in addition to the potential for direct damage and/or starting fires. 

I don't think it's possible to damage the aircraft sitting on deck when HE hits a CV. 

Are those planes effectively immune while on deck? 

If so, why? (Ask the IJN at Midway what it's like to have a loaded strike worth of aircraft on your deck when you start taking damage)

I'm not trying to start an anti-CV thread, there are plenty of those already. I'm simply curious if aircraft in ready reserve are immune to damage while still on deck, and if so why.

You are right, never thought about it... But let's say it would be possible to damage planes on the deck, the game would change as CV captain would spend more energy targeting the opposite CV.

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22 hours ago, dechion said:

If so, why? (Ask the IJN at Midway what it's like to have a loaded strike worth of aircraft on your deck when you start taking damage).

The IJN had no strike planes on deck during the destructive American attack. That myth has been debunked for decades. The IJN did not arm aircraft on the deck, but in the closed hanger.

The American strike hit carriers with armed strike aircraft IN THE HANGERS, which was even worse than on the deck.

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2 hours ago, franz_von_goltz said:

You are right, never thought about it... But let's say it would be possible to damage planes on the deck, the game would change as CV captain would spend more energy targeting the opposite CV.

And that would be a bad thing...how?

The dumbest part of the whole rework, IMHO, is the total abrogation of carrier v. carrier warfare.

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