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Kingpin61

Pan-American Destroyer Proposal: T1 & T2

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T1: Paraguay (Paraguay)

Paraguay will be the first landlocked nation to be represented in WoWs. Insert Swiss CV joke here.

Paraguay will also be the first ship in game that is still in service. Yes, you saw that right. These ships, coming up on 90 years old, still serve the Paraguay Navy as river monitors today.

2x2 120mm, 13mm belt, 18.5 knots. Also, fun 76mm secondaries! Yay.

Now, onto the ship you might play more than one time:

T2: Marnhão (Brazil)
 

Spoiler

 

This K class destroyer was formerly known as HMS Porpoise, and served in the Royal Navy for six years. During the Battle of Jutland, Porpoise was hit by two shells that knocked out two of her boilers and partially disabled her steering. in March 1920, she was rearmed for sale to Brazil, being renamed (eventually) Marnhão. The rearmament consisted of adding 2 single 3pdr Vickers guns, and swapping the single 533mm tubes for twin 457mm tubes. Eventually, in 1942, the two 3pdr mounts were removed with 3 20mm Oerlikon guns being added.

image.thumb.png.bf5557d98190067927fc94666bd5dfea.png

Survivability

HP:
9,300

 

Artillery
3 x 1 - 102mm/40 BL Mk VIII
This was the same weapon that was found on many very early british destroyers, and is already found in game on the T3 Pan-Asian destroyer Phra Ruang.

Spoiler

102mm/40 BL Mk VIII
  Sigma: 2.0
Rate of fire: 12 rpm HE Alpha: 1500
Fires Per Minute: 2.16
Muzzle Velocity: 664 m/s HE DPM: 54000 AP Alpha: 1500
Range:7.9/8.7 Fire chance: 6% AP DPM: 54000
Traverse: 8 d/s HE Penetration: 16mm
AP weight: 14.1kg
180 degree turntime: 22.5s HE Shell weight: 14.1kg
Maximum Dispersion: 80m



I hate trying to format excel charts onto the forums.

We could probably make the 47mm Vickers guns secondaries, too. but... eh.

Torpedoes:
2x2 457mm
457mm Mark VII
49 knots
7 km
8,400 alpha
Detect: 1.2km
Flood Chance: 95%
24s Reload

The 1.2km detectability gives this torp a reaction time of 9.4 seconds.

image.thumb.png.4120dd67b170bd9cc8ccc3544f450e85.png

 

AA: While a T2 destroyer will only find CVs through a fail division, the ship would have the 2 47mm Vickers guns on the A hull and three 20mm Oerlikons on the B hull.

Maneuverability
Maximum Speed: 24,500 shp for 29 knots. 
Yeah, not too quick, sadly. Still faster than Smith, though.
Rudder Shift: 2s

Size: 

Length: 81.5m
Beam: 8.2m
Depth: 2.9m
She's shorter and fatter than the Smith, and would likely have a turning circle around 420m as a result.



Nice.

*Concealment
5.81km by sea
2.07km by air

Consumables:

DCP
Engine Boost

 

 

The Pan American destroyers will be similar to the Pan Asian ships, but some of the designs will be ships that aren't represented in-game yet, and some of the ships are native (sort of) designs.

Pan America actually has enough destroyers for a full line with more than a few premiums. My proposal for just the destroyers will include eight different nations, compared to the 5 of Pan Asia. Additionally, the Pan America line actually won't have any paper- it may not be a totally consistent line due to the nature of Pan-______ lines, but every ship was completed in steel. Brazil will have 3 ships, the T2, T5 and T7, with Paraguay, Chile, Argentina, Peru, Colombia, Venezuela, and the Dominican Republic having a single ship each. I plan on putting the T3/4 up tomorrow, with the T5/6 following that, etc. etc.

Hopefully this line will start to make sense as we go up the tiers! See you tomorrow.

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39 minutes ago, Kingpin61 said:

T1: Paraguay (Paraguay)

There are NO tier 1 DDs, in ANY line.

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2 hours ago, Umikami said:

There are NO tier 1 DDs, in ANY line.

Of course, Paraguay takes the spot of the T1 starting cruiser/Sloop. Poor wording on my part.

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13 minutes ago, Kingpin61 said:

Of course, Paraguay takes the spot of the T1 starting cruiser/Sloop. Poor wording on my part.

It looks like a nice ship and that it would fit in the tier 1 slot. Where did you dig up the stats on it?

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21 minutes ago, Umikami said:

It looks like a nice ship and that it would fit in the tier 1 slot. Where did you dig up the stats on it?

http://www.navypedia.org/ships/paraguay/par_of_paraguay.htm

@Kingpin61 I will be watching your efforts with great interest. I am a self identifying Pan-Am fanboy, and I can already tell we have some differing opinions on what to include (Only ONE Chilean DD??? And why bother with Duarte anyhow??? And seriously, another no smoke line?)

Edit: The 47mm guns on Marnhao were not AA guns, but small caliber anti-torpedo boat guns. Similar guns are found on lots of early cruisers and BB's

 

Matt

Edited by mobryan
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Both are excellent choices. I pick the same in my DD branch at first.

Yet in spite all the good stuff Humaita has I thing the Mexican Durango is a better choice. Not because of the ship itself but because of the player base. Mexico is probably the Panam nation with more players and we don't have a distinctive Mexican ship. And Paraguay is one of the less represented  nations between the players. Using the Mexican ship will tease more players than the Paraguayan. 

Regarding the tier 2 I couldn't agree more.

For me the rest of the line could go

3) LaPlata (Arg)

4) Lynch (Chi)

5) Mendoza (Mobryan)

6) Amazonas (Bra)

7) Greenhalgh (Bra)

8) Nueva Esparta (Ven)

9) Thornicroft designs for Brasil

10) 20deJulio (Col)

With premiums such as

8) William's (chi)

10) Netzahualcóyotl (Mex)

To name a few.

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hum04X8.jpg

Humaita, twin sister of your tier 1. Still floating and serving as museum. They fight and won in the Chaco War in the 30s. As there were not many roads the supply was done by the extensive river network . These ships transported tons of materials and men to the front.

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36 minutes ago, Talleyrand said:

 

For me the rest of the line could go

3) LaPlata (Arg)

4) Lynch (Chi)

5) Mendoza (Mobryan)

6) Amazonas (Bra)

7) Greenhalgh (Bra)

8) Nueva Esparta (Ven)

9) Thornicroft designs for Brasil

10) 20deJulio (Col)

With premiums such as

8) William's (chi)

10) Netzahualcóyotl (Mex)

To name a few.

So, here's my reasoning behind Paraguay instead of the Mexican sloop: I simply want as many nations as possible in game. Plus, like you pointed out, it would be quite easy to make a US export DD premium for mexico, whereas Paraguay... not so much.

I did consider using the Thornycraft export DD at T9, but it is quite similar to Daring. Thus, I can use an actual export Daring, adding another nation in the game and avoiding paper ships.

Other than that, your line is very similar to what I ended up with.

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Another Pan-am fanboy checking in, I agree with having the Humaita as the tier 1. She exists, saw service and provides an interesting story for WeeGee to tell (and makes it easy for Lesta to render the ship since it still exists.) I agree @Talleyrand that Mexico needs some love in this game but at best it will be a single high tier DD. This does raise the question though. Given how prolific destroyers are in Latin America one could make an easy argument to see the Panamerican line get two complete lines of Destroyers! One line based around British designed ships, with other nations designs filling in gaps and the other with predominately American deisgns with other nations filling in where aplicable. What say you to this @COLDOWN, @Talleyrand and @Kingpin61?

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2 hours ago, Kingpin61 said:

I simply want as many nations as possible in game. Plus, like you pointed out, it would be quite easy to make a US export DD premium for mexico,

True.
Besides it will be quite intresting to see non-mexican try to pronounce names such as Netzahualcóyotl , Quetzalcoatl , Cuauhtémoc, or Cuitláhuac. I know I will probably summon an aztec demi-god by mistake long before I actually said the name. right.

2 hours ago, Trophy_Wench said:

Given how prolific destroyers are in Latin America one could make an easy argument to see the Panamerican line get two complete lines of Destroyers!

easy peasy!
1) Humaita (I surrender!)
2) Catamarca (ARG)
3) Serrano (CHI)
4) Duarte (DOM)
5) Antioquiía (COL) (with the americans 127mm guns to differentiate it from the Portuguese)
6) Buenos Aires (ARG)
7) ¿?
8) Almirante Williams
9) ¿?
10) Palacios (PER)

Adn we still have the CLEMENTEs (escort destroyer from VEnezuela), the CERVANTEZ (argentine churruca), and a few more ships and designs.  

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Keep adding stuffs related to the Pan-American ships until WG say: "Hey, those guys want pan-am ships, lets take a break from the other nations and lets see what we could do here, like we did with our fellow euro friends!". Jesus, I just REALLY HOPE it does not take too much time to see more ships in the Pan-American side (one premium ship is not enough). Right now I am working on the BB-line side of the whole tech tree (with 3D models and all) just to show to WG my interest in the panamerican ships. I really love when people come here to the forum to ask or propose about those ships, even if they are just one or two guys. I will keep a eye over here and also, I want my Mendoza (DD), my Veinticinco de Mayo (CA), my Rivadavia (BB) and my Ansaldo 1908 (BB)!

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17 minutes ago, BrunoSchezer said:

and my Ansaldo 1908 (BB)!

because Rivadavia was not weird enought... :)

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5 hours ago, Talleyrand said:

Both are excellent choices. I pick the same in my DD branch at first.

Yet in spite all the good stuff Humaita has I thing the Mexican Durango is a better choice. Not because of the ship itself but because of the player base. Mexico is probably the Panam nation with more players and we don't have a distinctive Mexican ship. And Paraguay is one of the less represented  nations between the players. Using the Mexican ship will tease more players than the Paraguayan. 

Regarding the tier 2 I couldn't agree more.

For me the rest of the line could go

3) LaPlata (Arg)

4) Lynch (Chi)

5) Mendoza (Mobryan)

6) Amazonas (Bra)

7) Greenhalgh (Bra)

8) Nueva Esparta (Ven)

9) Thornicroft designs for Brasil

10) 20deJulio (Col)

With premiums such as

8) William's (chi)

10) Netzahualcóyotl (Mex)

To name a few.

New Spartan :cap_haloween: I only come to leave a photo and

mR6ley8.jpg

goodbye 

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8 hours ago, Talleyrand said:

Yet in spite all the good stuff Humaita has I thing the Mexican Durango is a better choice. Not because of the ship itself but because of the player base.

Durango would probably be more well-known (that's just an assumption on my part; I had never heard of either the Durango-class nor Paraguay-class before reading this), she's woefully undergunned for even a tier I ship. Paraguay has double the amount of guns, as well as an 18mm lead on Durango. Even then, Paraguay looks to be on the weaker side of tier I gunboats, as she's tied with Black Swan for lowest caliber guns at that tier. However, Black Swan makes up for it by having 6 guns. Paraguay is left with the standard 4 guns most other gunboats have, as well as a smaller displacement and guns. If Paraguay has trouble keeping up with the other tier I ships, Durango has no chance.

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15 hours ago, CrescentSky said:

Durango would probably be more well-known (that's just an assumption on my part; I had never heard of either the Durango-class nor Paraguay-class before reading this), she's woefully undergunned for even a tier I ship. Paraguay has double the amount of guns, as well as an 18mm lead on Durango. Even then, Paraguay looks to be on the weaker side of tier I gunboats, as she's tied with Black Swan for lowest caliber guns at that tier. However, Black Swan makes up for it by having 6 guns. Paraguay is left with the standard 4 guns most other gunboats have, as well as a smaller displacement and guns. If Paraguay has trouble keeping up with the other tier I ships, Durango has no chance.

Paraguay has 120mm guns, Black Swan has 102mm. If you went with a modified Durango like Potosi, you could bump it up to 3 102mm guns, but that's still not enough to make it a viable T1

Humatia/Paraguay is a better choice, and of the available candidates, the best choice, I think.

 

Matt

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Acording to Wikipedia and Histamar both Durango and Calvo Sotelo (the one that fight in the spanish civil war) both were build with 4 * 101mm guns and made 18 knots. Never the less the armament was progressively reduced .

Yet Black Swam has 50% more firepower than Durango. Durango is a bit more heavy.  Durango rate of fire can be buffed if WG want it as tier 1. 
Paraguay / Humaitá has a 6 second reload time, or 10 shots per minute. If the 120mm shells make 1000 of maximun damage thats 4 guns * 10 shots * 1000 = 40.000 wich is almost the amouth of damage of most tier 1. 

Anyway. Is tier 1. WG is very flexible in this tier.

6.%20Canionero%20Durango%20(1)x4.jpgThe DURANGO

 

7.%20Canionero%20Durango%20(2).jpgThe Durango (more catual photo)

 

tripHumaitax400.jpgHumaitá

hum18canionx1000.jpghumaitá guns

hum08x8.jpgHumaitá

 

 

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12 hours ago, mobryan said:

Paraguay has 120mm guns, Black Swan has 102mm. If you went with a modified Durango like Potosi, you could bump it up to 3 102mm guns, but that's still not enough to make it a viable T1

Humatia/Paraguay is a better choice, and of the available candidates, the best choice, I think.

 

Matt

Whoops, that's my bad for remembering incorrectly. Stupid British making too many different calibers of guns, makes it hard to remember lol. Anyways, the point still stands that Durango would be much weaker than both Paraguay and all other tier 1 ships. I would definitely enjoy seeing her in game, but I just don't think it would work out. 

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17 minutes ago, CrescentSky said:

the point still stands that Durango would be much weaker than both Paraguay and all other tier 1 ships. I would definitely enjoy seeing her in game, but I just don't think it would work out. 

Ok ok. I Surrender! :Smile_unsure:
I know where I have been defeated. 

If in the future I return to Paraguay i will take photo next to the ship with a big board saying "TIER 1"

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