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TacticalCheeseburger

Question about German Subs.

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36 minutes ago, TacticalCheeseburger said:

(Move thread if not Appropriate place.)


In regards to the German Submarines, 

Will they be designated like U-126, U-405, U-124 etc

Or will they be Typed properly as the Type VIIC, IXB etc? 

Without having any more info than you, I’d guess they’d give them boat names rather than classes. That’s what they’ve done with all the other ones. (With the caveat that I haven’t actually checked what they did with the German destroyers.)

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I don't care so much for what they're called, as long as I can get Gunther Prien as a legendary commander at some point.

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The German tech tree has “Nürnberg”, not “Leipzig class cruiser”.  Maybe not apples to apples, but there is precedent for U names instead of Type names.

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2 hours ago, TacticalCheeseburger said:

(Move thread if not Appropriate place.)


In regards to the German Submarines, 

Will they be designated like U-126, U-405, U-124 etc

Or will they be Typed properly as the Type VIIC, IXB etc? 

nvm//

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2 hours ago, TacticalCheeseburger said:

(Move thread if not Appropriate place.)


In regards to the German Submarines, 

Will they be designated like U-126, U-405, U-124 etc

Or will they be Typed properly as the Type VIIC, IXB etc? 

The preview seemed to list the name of the sub (or U-number rather) rather than type. I remember because I had to look up what U-number corresponded to what class. That, of course, could be changed at any time right up to the point where they are released (if that actually happens). 

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2 hours ago, FineousFingers said:

Without having any more info than you, I’d guess they’d give them boat names rather than classes. That’s what they’ve done with all the other ones. (With the caveat that I haven’t actually checked what they did with the German destroyers.)

They named DDs after the class they were in. Leberecht Maass (Z-1) = 1934 class, Z-23 = 1936A class, Z-39 = 1936A Mob., Z-46 = 1936C class, Z-52 = 1944 class

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Heyo Guys!

Currently our naming convention for German submarines can be seen in the release graphic detailing the first 3 German Subs entering the game in the future.

04_str_with_new_Art_1920x1080.jpg

Given this, I think we will most likely stick to this naming style to keep things simple.

Fem, 

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I hope U-571 gets to be released as a premium at some point. Yes, I know the movie U-571 does not tell the story of the real U-571. 

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Though I'm very concerned with what I've seen in the DD vs. sub gameplay I've watched. I'd like direct control over launching the depth charges and a better system for DDs to locate subs. 

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2 hours ago, saintsfan1622000 said:

Though I'm very concerned with what I've seen in the DD vs. sub gameplay I've watched. I'd like direct control over launching the depth charges and a better system for DDs to locate subs. 

 

1 hour ago, UnitG2 said:

Has there been any hints as to commander skills for subs?

Will we get another week long free reset as well?

Currently we have not released any info on commander skills or consumables for submarines beyond speculation on some ideas.

Given that DDs already have quite a few tasks going on at once, we do not feel like its necessary to add yet another "task" for them. We did actually do some testing on having the depth charges being manually deployed however results from these tests found that this really didn't add anything valuable to the gameplay experience.

Fem, 

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afaik, U-boats didnt have names like other ships, it was just U followed by a number

Edited by tcbaker777

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48 minutes ago, tcbaker777 said:

afaik, U-boats didnt have names like other ships, it was just U followed by a number

The question was if they were going by class (The Type 9 trans-Atlantic boat for example) as opposed to specific U-##.

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1 hour ago, Femennenly said:

Currently we have not released any info on commander skills or consumables for submarines beyond speculation on some ideas.

Given that DDs already have quite a few tasks going on at once, we do not feel like its necessary to add yet another "task" for them. We did actually do some testing on having the depth charges being manually deployed however results from these tests found that this really didn't add anything valuable to the gameplay experience.

Fem, 

Well consumables are in the main article on the web site.

Consumables

The new type will be equipped with unique consumables:

Maximum Depth: allows you to dive deeper than the standard “Underwater” level and avoid taking damage from depth charges.

Snorkel: increases the time to conduct an attack. When activated, the submarine stops spending oxygen and starts accumulating it instead when at periscope level.

O2 Regeneration: increases the time a submarine can spend underwater.

Enhanced Active Sonar: increases the effectiveness of sonar pings.

https://worldofwarships.com/en/news/general-news/submarines-announcement/

 

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40 minutes ago, tcbaker777 said:

afaik, U-boats didnt have names like other ships, it was just U followed by a number

Many submarines, destroyers and smaller vessels do not have formal names because they are not "commissioned" warships. Would have meant something in the age of sail or in international politics, but largely a pointless distinction in the 20th century. 

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2 hours ago, PrinzEugen85 said:

The question was if they were going by class (The Type 9 trans-Atlantic boat for example) as opposed to specific U-##.

I would imagine that the boat name would be U 47, the class would be Type 7 and the tier just as the other ships are ship name, type and tier. I expect other nations that did not name their submersibles would be the same and those that were named such as US would be ships name, the class such as GATO and tier. Of course all would be listed under the heading Submarine.

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6 hours ago, Femennenly said:

Given that DDs already have quite a few tasks going on at once, we do not feel like its necessary to add yet another "task" for them.

And so - the solution, to our current knowledge, is that to avoid giving them another 'task' - is to make them the only ship as it is with any actual tools intended to hunt subs, limited as they are, and that if and when it sees circles to go chase circles to try and depth charge a sub, while likely putting itself in a bad position or allowing it to get away. While on the opposite side of the spectrum, a Sub that has a DD chasing circles takes damage from a completely automated system that can be quite effective and knock it out.

And when I'm playing DD - how does it really change my job? Since Alpha testing DD's have effectively been filling a role of submarines in their gameplay. Go unseen, torp ship, spot things. Going after a sub, same deal - just that it can dive deep and have to be over it to depth charge it. Depending on how it's implemented, maybe manually pressing a button doesn't add much - but it doesn't take away either and would make some of us feel better. That and as it is, it seems like the rings system is dependent on either the sub being spotted or using the pings to give where it was away. Unless you force us to get in a range we will be absolutely spotted, most of us will likely launch from a range we won't be detected, and just not use the homing function, that really has no place in the lower tiers anyway, I go unspotted like I do in DD's and start racking up hits with no pings - well now it lacks a circle to chase. Well - now it's got no way to attack me at all. Least with a manual depth charge system they can go to where they think I am, and then hope to hit me, same as randomly firing in smoke. Or give them something akin to the subs hydrophone that won't give them an exact position, but point them toward it within x range. Bonus points if we give them the 'blind' spot when over a sub to make the attacks they historically had and why systems like the hedgehog were developed - but obviously not necessary. I'd rather be able to track and chase a sub away at will, and feel like I did something, not the computer. Just like on the flip side - I'd rather feel like I got outplayed by the DD than 'oh, something gave it circles to follow and then the computer depth charged me'. 

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7 hours ago, Femennenly said:

Given that DDs already have quite a few tasks going on at once, we do not feel like its necessary to add yet another "task" for them. We did actually do some testing on having the depth charges being manually deployed however results from these tests found that this really didn't add anything valuable to the gameplay experience.

It doesn't matter if the ASW system is automated or manual -- making DDs the only ships able to fight back against submerged subs will still put the burden on DDs (not fair or fun to the players in the DDs), while also leaving cruisers and battleships completely helpless (not fair or fun to the players those ships). 

 

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13 hours ago, Femennenly said:

 

Given that DDs already have quite a few tasks going on at once, we do not feel like its necessary to add yet another "task" for them. We did actually do some testing on having the depth charges being manually deployed however results from these tests found that this really didn't add anything valuable to the gameplay experience.

Fem, 

The whole circle thing is simply ridiculous. This game needs direct control wherever it is possible. Skill has to make the difference. If DDs will be hunting subs you have to introduce a way with skill curve for both DD and sub. Chasing circles is what brings nothing to the game.

What comes to mind is DD will be setting manually depth of the charges plus trying to run over the sub as parallel as possible, while the sub will be doing the opposite.

But the argument that DDs are already overloaded with tasks is completelly valid. But that was said by the community long time ago. Cant say I see a way out of this, but "just" chasing circles doesnt seem like one. 

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7 hours ago, WanderingGhost said:

And when I'm playing DD - how does it really change my job? Since Alpha testing DD's have effectively been filling a role of submarines in their gameplay.

The million dollar question will be how is the destroyer's role in the game going to change.  Going back to the rework it was WG's original intention to have 3-4 CVs per team in every game.  That would have all but removed concealment from the game.  God only knows how DDs would have been viable if that version of the game.  WG wanted a meta that pretty much excludes DDs all the while having planned to have DDs be the primary counter to subs.  Its like the people making the decisions for the game have no clue... 

One problem I see is that I think air spotting was/is intended to be a big part of detecting subs, and that is in part driving the push to have a larger CV population.  The larger the CV population the smaller the DD population.  We've seen that with the launch of the rework and again when the premium carriers were released for sale again where the Cv population (temperately) spiked.  Push DDs out and who will counter subs.  If you think it will be challenging for DDs to run down subs try it with cruisers or BBs, that will be hopeless.  So will aircraft become the primary counter to subs?  Many CV player think its not worth the trouble going after DDs, I can imagine going after subs will be way more trouble.  I wish WG luck getting this right.     

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There's also the problem that adding subs will eat into all the other ship type numbers in the average battle.  12 players, 5 ship types instead of 4... and that's before you get into Scenarios or Co-op or etc.

But an issue that's not coming up is that asymmetries are exponential.  I think the game can handle one asymmetrical unit type (carriers, and they were probably closer to OK before the rebork), but adding a second that's also bonkers in terms of historicity and relies so much more on stealth and surprise attacks and special mechanics... I don't think the game can handle that. 

 

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I almost don't understand the question, is this asking if the tier 6 German sub will be called 'Type VII' rather than 'U-69', which it's been announced as? Well, no... Similarly we don't have the T7 British ship 'Crown Colony' or the T8 'Town' or the T6 destroyer 'A&B'.

6 hours ago, puxflacet said:

What comes to mind is DD will be setting manually depth of the charges plus trying to run over the sub as parallel as possible, while the sub will be doing the opposite.

I think the depth charges have to be pretty much automatic, and pretty much a one-hit-kill too.

Look at this chart of turning times and radii from @LittleWhiteMouse -

image.thumb.png.0eea7db5c0ccdeb7e3ed228a5928b8fa.png

Imagine this represents an unsuccessful depth charge attack at the start of the turn. The destroyer after 30s still isn't back at the original position (Harugumo is particularly awful) and would probably take another 15-20s to get there.

In the meantime imagine the submarine has juked to starboard instead of port, or gone to port trying to cut behind the destroyer - oh and there are T10 subs with 340-460m turning radius, though some are worse - the submarine can also do 30-31kt submerged which isn't much slower than the likely 30-40kt destroyer.

If the sub gets a 30s head start, it takes Getting back into position after the first pass is a) going to be very difficult and b) going to take far, far too long in a 20 minute game, 30s at 31kt is 2,400m in game, to close that distance at an overtake speed of 8kt will take 112s - don't even bother in 35kt Daring. If you miss a ram against a target 8kt slower, how often in game do you manage to turn and get them again? I don't think I've ever done it. That's the equivalent of this depth charging, try and ram a Colorado, miss, do a 180 and try and ram them in a Dunkerque. 

Certainly some numbers can be tweaked, but the starting idea of 30kt submerged submarines, 'follow the circles' mechanics, short range depth charges doesn't seem to work in any kind of developed situation. It will not take long for submarines to figure out that just reversing toward friendlies will make them 99% safe against destroyers.

Historically a successful submarine hunt needed time, teamwork and a lack of enemy German battleships or heavy cruisers shooting the snot out of you as you tried to do it. The surface ship would also have a huge speed advantage over the submarine, even at slower ASDIC/Sonar speed. I don't remember HMS Starling, or USS England, or RN Pegaso launching their successful submarine prosecutions while a H-39 class battleship shot at them...

Now the game doesn't have to follow history, but it does have to have decent counterplay, and the ability of submarines to operate in a coordinated manner with teammates - even if it's just 'run away toward the friendly destroyer muncher while spotting the destroyer chasing you' is tremendously awful mechanically.

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