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Dynamax

All Bot Co-op Mode Option

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The Co-op games are getting ridiculously easy - typically everyone just rushes in and the matches are over in a few minutes having lost no ships with 2 full-life ships left on the other side when the game ends.  The usual result is little experience/credits and not much fun.  The rare games were I get at least a few bots on my side are typically much more engaging where you actually have to employ some strategy to have a good chance of winning.  I suggest place a check mark on the co-op game mode if you'd like to try bot only matches. 

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I agree with the concept but expect WG would need to add server capacity to accommodate.  Could add  many hundreds of simultaneous coop battles running.

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@Dynamax Aren't you really just asking for a single player WoWS?

That wouldn't need server capacity. You'd down load additional data for the AI and such, and run it local to your client.

Edited by Kuriour

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Or just play after 23-2400 Central Time.

That’s my normal time because of my work schedule, and that makes for lots of 1 vs 15, or 2-3 vs 13-14 bots.

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@Dynamax that is the way it is supposed to be. If you want more then play random or scenarios.

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35 minutes ago, Dynamax said:

The Co-op games are getting ridiculously easy - typically everyone just rushes in and the matches are over in a few minutes having lost no ships with 2 full-life ships left on the other side when the game ends.  The usual result is little experience/credits and not much fun.  The rare games were I get at least a few bots on my side are typically much more engaging where you actually have to employ some strategy to have a good chance of winning.  I suggest place a check mark on the co-op game mode if you'd like to try bot only matches. 

Nah, the easy solution would be to add 1 bot ship for every 2 live players on the player team.  At max, that'd be 8 live players vs 12 bots. Or at worst, it'd be 1 live player with 7 bot team mates vs 8 bots.

Side note: With this idea, it might require a tweaking to the number of points the bot team starts with so that the mercy rule doesn't get triggered with something like 5 live bots left, when it's a 8 live player vs 12 bots match.

I suppose that they could try to improve the intelligence of the bot AI.  However, bot AI in WoWS seems rather pathetic.  It's nothing more than charge at the enemy.  And this is particularly bad when you're talking about bot DDs.  Seriously, if the bot DDs are IJN torp boats, there's no attempt to even act like a torp boat.  Or if they're gunboats, they make no attempt to fight like a gun boat.

 

I don't know that WG has a lot of incentive to work on coop.  It took forever just to get them to do something as seemingly simple as change coop MM so that the bot team wasn't always a perfect mirror of the player team.  And that doesn't really make the battles tougher or easier, per se.   Just makes it a little more interesting to play against different lineups. 

Outright removing the mercy rule for coop doesn't really make coop any easier or difficult.  All it really does is give the players more of a chance to farm a little more damage, and thus, more XP and credits.

It seems to me that the only ways to make coop more interesting is to make it more challenging in some way.  Making things more interesting might require fiddling around with the makeups of bot teams.  And I don't really mean non-mirroring of the player team.  I'm thinking more along the lines of adding more ships, and perhaps adding some tier -3 or -4 ships to the bot team to boost their numbers with what would amount to cannon fodder for the bot team. 

For example, say that you have a battle tier 8 coop battle.  The player team is a smattering of tier 6, 7, and 8 ships.  The basic bot team would have a similar smattering of ships matching in tier and type.  But then maybe add in a couple of tier 5's and a couple of tier 4's, which should probably consist of cruisers and destroyers.  But even with this, is it going to be "more interesting" just having more cannon fodder to shoot up?  There's no challenge.  The bot "captains" don't fight their ships.  They're sort of more like the ducks in one of those carny games where you try to shoot them with an air rifle, except that the ducks are shooting back.  The ducks are just sailing in a straight line and aren't "fighting their ships".  They just sail in a straight line and fire at you, with no attempt to do anything smart, beyond maybe trying to dodge torps once in a while.

And I just get the feeling that WG probably isn't willing to put any work into creating bot AI's that actually think and "fight their ships" in any sort of intelligent way.  And if that's the case, I'm just not sure there's much hope of any improvement in terms of making coop more interesting or challenging.

 

 

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34 minutes ago, Dynamax said:

The Co-op games are getting ridiculously easy - typically everyone just rushes in and the matches are over in a few minutes having lost no ships with 2 full-life ships left on the other side when the game ends.  The usual result is little experience/credits and not much fun.  The rare games were I get at least a few bots on my side are typically much more engaging where you actually have to employ some strategy to have a good chance of winning.  I suggest place a check mark on the co-op game mode if you'd like to try bot only matches. 

That will change if WG actually updates the live server with the AI on the test server right now.


No more strolls along the beach with your favorite bot :fluffy: and :cuddles:,
The AI on the PTS has been upgraded, and is a lot more fun and engaging, :Napoleon:, :Skynet:, :Cerebro: and :HAL_9000: await you for fun times. :Smile_trollface:

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13 minutes ago, CAPTMUDDXX said:

@Dynamax that is the way it is supposed to be. If you want more then play random or scenarios.

Yeah, pretty much, MUDD.   To me, scenarios are really coop done in a more interesting and challenging way.  The bots aren't necessarily any smarter.  They're just programmed to follow a certain course, depending on where they spawned and the nature of the scenario.  But within their limitations, it does make the bots play more interesting.

And I like the operations where everything isn't EXACTLY the same time after time after time.  Raptor Rescue is a great example of this.  You don't know what course you're going to be ordered to take or where the enemies will spawn.  This makes it a lot more interesting than, say, Aegis, where you know where every damned enemy ship will spawn every single time you play the battle.  About the only thing that changes in Aegis is the composition of that first force you encounter.  Sometimes, it's BB heavy.  Sometimes, it's CA heavy.  And sometimes, it's DD heavy.  But nothing else seems to change.

 

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3 minutes ago, SpudZero said:

That will change if WG actually updates the live server with the AI on the test server right now.


No more strolls along the beach with your favorite bot :fluffy: and :cuddles:,
The AI on the PTS has been upgraded, and is a lot more fun and engaging, :Napoleon:, :Skynet:, :Cerebro: and :HAL_9000: await you for fun times. :Smile_trollface:

Really?  They have a much better AI on the PTS?  Is this because they're testing a new AI?  Or because of the low population on the PTS has caused them to come up with a more useful AI for bot players to fill out teams?

And do they really use those names for captains?  That's amusing.  But do they also have a captain named :Colossus:?  (That's the name of another computer that takes over the world in a movie, a 1970's movie, IIRC, called The Forbin Project.)

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11 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Really?  They have a much better AI on the PTS?  Is this because they're testing a new AI?  Or because of the low population on the PTS has caused them to come up with a more useful AI for bot players to fill out teams?

And do they really use those names for captains?  That's amusing.  But do they also have a captain named :Colossus:?  (That's the name of another computer that takes over the world in a movie, a 1970's movie, IIRC, called The Forbin Project.)

You really need to come over and try it out, it's nothing like what we have over here, I honestly can't speak for lower tier's as all I'm playing is tier X.
And no, I made the names up, We've seen this AI before on the PTS, and another similar version here, but it was a long time ago and lots of people complained, so they put back the old boring bots.

These new ones are a hoot, and I'm seeing regular base XP between 7 and 900 at tier X on a good match as the lone human, and even with 2 or three humans.
But also complete roll-o-stomps by the bots when I bring a flimsy CA to a heavy BB fight.

Yesterday there was over 4K playing there....

servercountPTS.thumb.jpg.664ba477150b32c75ffc489d60e81218.jpg

Right now, 279 LOL go figure.

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I really hope they implement this AI here next patch. 
SO much better than what we have now.

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1 minute ago, SpudZero said:

You really need to come over and try it out, it's nothing like what we have over here, I honestly can't speak for lower tier's as all I'm playing is tier X.
And no, I made the names up, We've seen this AI before on the PTS, and another similar version here, but it was a long time ago and lots of people complained, so they put back the old boring bots.

These new ones are a hoot, and I'm seeing regular base XP between 7 and 900 at tier X on a good match as the lone human, and even with 2 or three humans.
But also complete roll-o-stomps by the bots when I bring a flimsy CA to a heavy BB fight.

Yesterday there was over 4K playing there....

 

Right now, 279 LOL go figure.

Spud, short of WG actually paying me in real money, there's next to no chance that I'll waste a second downloading the PTS and then playing on it.

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11 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Spud, short of WG actually paying me in real money, there's next to no chance that I'll waste a second downloading the PTS and then playing on it.

Ah, gotcha! no worries.

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@Crucis

Not sure about how dumb the bots really are; but the contortions they sometimes go through to react to players, (and especially player carrier planes,) are at turns rage inducing and funny to watch.

Player DD running around island to attack bot; bot uses magical rudder shift and either totally screws the player’s approach, or runs itself aground.

Like with torpedoes, bots seem to start turning to avoid a carrier attack before the planes could even be spotted, making the approach a total (redacted.)

They also seem to be running away again, at least on the PT.

This is amusing in a 1 vs 15 situation, because the bots keep running away from and sniping at each other, and the only person really attacking is the lone player.

Edited by Estimated_Prophet

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2 hours ago, Crucis said:

  Or because of the low population on the PTS has caused them to come up with a more useful AI for bot players to fill out teams?

This..... Most games on the PTS are over 10min.  so if they put them bots in the live server with out more payouts players will be having a fit.

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3 hours ago, Crucis said:

Really?  They have a much better AI on the PTS?

Oh yeah...has been that way for awhile (not T1v& not sure where it starts but higher tier PTS co-op has been a camp fest for a long time.

Played a Tears Epicenter battle back when they changed the Tears map & it was funny.

I was only human & I followed the smoking meat shield (DD) forward as I always do when there are smoking meat shields to follow & when I entered the ring all of the bot ships except 1 DD had turned tail & run...but the DD that didn't run from the beginning did something that blew my mind...it stopped in it's smoke & was firing out of it while undetected...& by the time it's smoke ran out it too had turned tail & run while another of the red bots had come forward & the red bots (as well as the green bots) just took turns coming forward to bait & ten turning to run.

I have learned to adjust to the new co-op bot meta but that 1st battle definitely caught me off guard & was an utter defeat.

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1 hour ago, cecill611 said:

This..... Most games on the PTS are over 10min.  so if they put them bots in the live server with out more payouts players will be having a fit.

I stared a thread about just that as soon as I 1st encountered them on the PT but they released them anyway...& the fits did come in waves & shortly after the regular bots returned.

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19 minutes ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

I stared a thread about just that as soon as I 1st encountered them on the PT but they released them anyway...& the fits did come in waves & shortly after the regular bots returned.

The bots in the PTS has been better for along time now but most games you are the only person.

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49 minutes ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

I stared a thread about just that as soon as I 1st encountered them on the PT but they released them anyway...& the fits did come in waves & shortly after the regular bots returned.

If these bots really are better than the bots in coop, I'd LOVE to see them added to coop.  Coop bots are so freaking stupid and boring, and no challenge at all.

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On 8/31/2019 at 8:17 PM, Crucis said:

If these bots really are better than the bots in coop, I'd LOVE to see them added to coop.  Coop bots are so freaking stupid and boring, and no challenge at all.

I liked them better than the regular for the challenge when you're the only human but only ran them for PT rewards but the XP was the same as normal so wasn't worth the extra time (it took away from the daily grind) when grinding for the rewards...but was funner.

There's a hard mode for scenarios...how hard would it be to set an optional co-op mode?

Keep the regular as is but put the option for higher XP...but that unfortunately would take way too many random players out of co-op...easier grind for decent rewards would crash the random community...catch 22.

Edit: Epiphany...

Prediction: The PT co-op will be used to test the subs (w/the CVs properly balanced along w/them...as they have been getting tested along w/them) when the alternate sub mode goes live...Stay Tuned...(SOONtm) :-)

2nd Prediction: It will replace regular co-op when subs go live on the main server.

Edited by IfYouSeeKhaos

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