Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
The_Fire_Department

Le Fantasque is not Le Terrible

18 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

8,280
[SALVO]
Members
23,458 posts
24,073 battles

And some people were griping about Le Terrible not having smoke, the first DD to not have it, when she was first released.  I think that people need to reconsider the idea that DDs need smoke to survive.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
271
[SRPH]
[SRPH]
Members
1,022 posts
2,890 battles
2 minutes ago, Crucis said:

And some people were griping about Le Terrible not having smoke, the first DD to not have it, when she was first released.  I think that people need to reconsider the idea that DDs need smoke to survive.

Except in the annoying circumstance I found myself in today in my Jaguar...perma-spotted by a CV and blapped out of existence by nearby cruisers.  Jaguar is fast, but can't outrun planes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8,212
[WOLF3]
Members
23,000 posts
20,882 battles

That is but one game, and one game does not make it a trend for the ship overall in the server.

 

So far its performance is just like Le Terrible's in the server.  With more battles I expect it to go down.

 

Really, the differences are minor between the two sister destroyers.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,181
[WOLFB]
Members
3,116 posts
12,935 battles

I think Le Fantasque has that special damage saturation whereas Le Terrible doesn't.

 

This can make a huge difference. Regardless I can't wait for the next update to drop so I can finally play my Le Fantasque

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,660
[FOXEH]
Beta Testers
12,556 posts
18,079 battles
1 hour ago, Crucis said:

I think that people need to reconsider the idea that DDs need smoke to survive.

I think Battleship drivers need to reconsider the idea that BBs need DD smoke to survive. In a game where I ended up being second highest on my team I was shot by one team mate for not charging fast enough and berated by another for failing to smoke him and spot correctly. Sorry fellas, but I didn't pick the ship you're playing; you CHOSE to play a ship that needs another ship to make it work. Go kick rocks.

  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,129
[KWF]
Members
3,745 posts
5,417 battles
2 hours ago, Crucis said:

And some people were griping about Le Terrible not having smoke, the first DD to not have it, when she was first released.  I think that people need to reconsider the idea that DDs need smoke to survive.

That was before Le Terrible ended up getting buffed in a series of patches however. The original version was indifferent at best.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7,905
[ARGSY]
Members
15,794 posts
10,648 battles
4 hours ago, Crucis said:

I think that people need to reconsider the idea that DDs need smoke to survive.

We've had smokeless DDs in the game ever since some of the Japanese ships were able to swap their smoke for a torpedo reload booster and the Russians for a heal. But that was merely an option, and you could always put it back on based on preferences.

It would be interesting to see who is doing best in the French destroyers, based on the DDs they already had in port. Let's just say I have my suspicions. :Smile_teethhappy:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46
[SYJ]
Members
124 posts
10,663 battles
1 hour ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

We've had smokeless DDs in the game ever since some of the Japanese ships were able to swap their smoke for a torpedo reload booster and the Russians for a heal. But that was merely an option, and you could always put it back on based on preferences.

It would be interesting to see who is doing best in the French destroyers, based on the DDs they already had in port. Let's just say I have my suspicions. :Smile_teethhappy:

I'm on the Kagero now and it's super fun without smoke and just a reload booster.  I had my highest damage DD game in it and it was a 2 carrier game.  It's hard for carriers to find if you leave the AA off and you maneuver to avoid them.  It helps to have rudder shift mod and hopefully have engine boost going.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
173
[TARK]
Members
462 posts
28 minutes ago, gatorken said:

I'm on the Kagero now and it's super fun without smoke and just a reload booster.  I had my highest damage DD game in it and it was a 2 carrier game.  It's hard for carriers to find if you leave the AA off and you maneuver to avoid them.  It helps to have rudder shift mod and hopefully have engine boost going.

I have a problem with one statement here:  "It's hard for carriers to find you if you leave the AA off and you maneuver to avoid them."

In a Kagero, your minimum air detection is 2.5km.  

In a Kagero, your MAXIMUM AA range is 1.9km.

There is no reason to ever shut off your AA in a smokeless Kagero, unless you are hiding in someone else's smoke.

Edited by turdjelly

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46
[SYJ]
Members
124 posts
10,663 battles
2 minutes ago, turdjelly said:

I have a problem with one statement here:  "It's hard for carriers to find you if you leave the AA off and you maneuver to avoid them."

In a Kagero, your minimum air detection is 2.5km.  

In a Kagero, your MAXIMUM AA range is 1.9km.

There is no reason to ever shut off your AA in a smokeless Kagero, unless you are hiding in someone else's smoke.

Thanks never really bothered to look at it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
173
[TARK]
Members
462 posts
2 minutes ago, gatorken said:

Thanks never really bothered to look at it.

I think the Kag is the only ship that I know the conceal/AA ranges like that... because it totally jolted me when I realized just how crap its AA is compared to the other IJN T8 DD, Akizuki.

I'm very happy that you like the Kag.  I can't make that thing work, lol!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5,876
[CMFRT]
[CMFRT]
Members
11,401 posts

Le Fantastique may not be Le Terrible, but it's not Le Awesome either.  It's a usable ship with strengths and weaknesses.

The lack of smoke is not crippling, but it does mean that the DD has to play with significantly more caution, as it doesn't have a "get out of jail free" card to play. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8,212
[WOLF3]
Members
23,000 posts
20,882 battles
3 hours ago, Rolkatsuki said:

the hell let you get 3 cits?

Probably a Light Cruiser.  One of the signature benefits of High Tier FR DDs is that their AP has quite a bit of Penetration capability, more than even the RU DD guns.  It's enough at certain ranges where the thinner belt armor of Light Cruisers are at risk to a FR DD.  Here's an Artillery Chart of Le Fantastique's guns compared to Kiev and Ognevoi from the same tier.

zOWaHnQ.jpg

Take note of that AP Pen capability and look at the armor belts of several Cruisers these High Tier FR DDs can encounter.  The CAs tend to have thicker belt armor, they're fine. 

Some example High Tier Cruiser Citadel armor belt values:

Zao & Mogami:  25mm TDS, 100mm Citadel Armor Belt.

Baltimore & Des Moines: 152mm Citadel Armor Belt

Chapayev:  100mm Citadel Armor Belt

Cleveland & Worcester:  127mm Citadel Armor Belt

Charles Martel:  100mm Cit Armor Belt below the guns, don't go for the center of the ship with the spaced armor.

 

You have to be careful though even if you get an advantageous position to initiate an ambush.  If you don't kill that Cruiser early in these engagement ranges trying for a Citadel, many of these Cruisers you did not want to be anywhere near to begin with.

 

Anyways, Le Fantastique, Le Terrible, Mogador in Tiers VIII-IX all share the same shell behavior.  Again, High Tier is where FR DDs get this higher AP Penetration.  Prior tiers of this Line are SOL.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
496
[NUWES]
Members
2,714 posts
8,685 battles
6 hours ago, AlcatrazNC said:

I think Le Fantasque has that special damage saturation whereas Le Terrible doesn't.

 

This can make a huge difference. Regardless I can't wait for the next update to drop so I can finally play my Le Fantasque

I'm pretty sure they both have it. I recall @Notser mentioning in a video that Le Terrible was modified when the main line was. They are the same class and basically the same ship with a couple of noticeable differences: 

Le Terrible's gun reload is about 1s faster

Le Terrible itself is something like 2-3 knots faster.

Le Terrible's torpedo reload is something like 10s faster.

Le Fantasque's torpedoes travel faster (about 10kts). 

Le Fantasque has much better AA (22 or so vs 8 for Le Terrible). (Le Terrible can't even shoot down a same-tier spotter plane much less an attack plane. I know, I've tried.) 

There are some other small differences but I can't remember them off of the top of my head and they aren't significant (and I think I am forgetting one larger one). Personally, I find Le Terrible to be the slightly easier to use of the two. The couple of extra knot speed (it reaches almost 55kts with speed boost) helps for ships where speed is life, but most importantly that faster gun reload is noticeable. It synergizes even better with the reload booster and it has fewer problems when the reload booster is on cooldown than Le Fantasque. I don't feel myself pounding the mouse button waiting for the reload on Le Terrible like I do on Le Fantasque. Same with the faster torp reload. Faster torps certainly is never a bad thing but I prefer a bit of speed loss for the quicker reload. The AA is bad (Le Fantasque) vs. tear-wateringly bad (Le Terrible). 

I don't think Aigle got the damage saturation change since she has smoke, and I am not 100% sure if Sirocco has it although from playing it I suspect that it does. 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
496
[NUWES]
Members
2,714 posts
8,685 battles
7 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Probably a Light Cruiser.  One of the signature benefits of High Tier FR DDs is that their AP has quite a bit of Penetration capability, more than even the RU DD guns.  It's enough at certain ranges where the thinner belt armor of Light Cruisers are at risk to a FR DD.  

^This. You can do it easily on RN CLs if they are broadside and stack them pretty fast with the reload booster. I got 5 on a Neptune, with Mogador, in Ranked yesterday. I believe Mog uses the same shells as the T8s. If they are angled you can forget it. I believe you can do it to the Russian and USN CLs too although I have a harder time with it. I've never managed it on a CA (not that I've had a lot of chances to try). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8,212
[WOLF3]
Members
23,000 posts
20,882 battles
20 minutes ago, Tzarevitch said:

^This. You can do it easily on RN CLs if they are broadside and stack them pretty fast with the reload booster. I got 5 on a Neptune, with Mogador, in Ranked yesterday. I believe Mog uses the same shells as the T8s. If they are angled you can forget it. I believe you can do it to the Russian and USN CLs too although I have a harder time with it. I've never managed it on a CA (not that I've had a lot of chances to try). 

You can probably get them on CAs.  Fooling around in Co-op I bagged some against Henri, Baltimore, etc, but this was in close range and the bots are dumb.  The AP Pen capability of these guns skyrockets in sub-10km engagements.  A BB isn't going to worry, but some Cruisers with thin belts will.  But as with other things, the target angles, the opportunity for Citadeling it evaporates.  If you didn't put the Cruiser down, then finding yourself at 11km or less to something like Des Moines, Zao, Worcester, D.Donskoi, Chapayev, Henri, etc. is not conducive to a Destroyer's survival.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×