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enderland07

Reasons why Zoup's video about resetting the game economy (flags, fxp, coal, etc) is just... wrong

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I don't even know where to start with how this recent video is. Here's a few reasons, of the many, why I find it problematic:

  • First of all, the single reason why the credit economy is busted is TX perma camos making it possible for nearly anyone to play as many TX games as they want and make credits. Add in premium time... well, it's busted
    • This likely is a key component to WG's driving business model, too, so it's not likely to change
  • Second, the reason the free xp economy is busted is... let's see, a line of flags called Dragon flags (that WG gives out abundantly) as well as camo inflation. When you can reliably get 20k fxp in a decent game, people stockpile it trivially.
  • Third, all the currencies doesn't contribute at all to burnout. Not sure why you'd think it would. Pointing out how "fun" it is to grind ships? Uhh, did you not see all the NTC drama? People don't like that idea at all.
  • Fourth, if you reset this game you give the biggest middle finger in the history of gaming to people who in many cases paid real money to get those currencies. If you honestly think this wouldn't wreck the playerbase, well, I don't know what to tell you. I guess it'd clear out most competitive clans, not to mention what it'd do to that poor free to player finally closing in on 1M fxp.
  • Fifth, you are completely ignorant of the average player currency levels. You kept saying "everyone has tons of credits" or "everyone has tons of fxp" or "everyone instantly hits TX on a ship initially" but this is just so ignorant to the majority of players. I have 8000 battles and in the 50M credit range right now. I even have tons of TX perma camos. I just... don't even know how you can be making such ridiculous and incorrect statements so boldly yet be so wrong.
  • Sixth, people horde currencies because until recently, WG never announced what type of currency a ship would be for. WG has only now started to allow players to plan more than a few days in advance - this would have had a big impact on currency inflation

Six seems like a good stopping point.

And the solution to all of this is trivial: cosmetics. It's the same thing that WG doesn't get about the NTC. People would spend currency on cosmetics. Give someone the ability to buy a $100M credit cost upgrade to a perma camo for a TX ship to turn it bright gold. Or put $$$$ signs all over it. Whatever. People would do this, because it is a status symbol that does not exist right now. 

This is the video for reference:

 

Edited by enderland07
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More clicks for the bait god. Zoup seems like a nice enough guy, but the informational quality of some of these videos...

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Permacamo is still a money maker for them, as are Premium ships. I believe that the vast majority of players of WOWS don't have the two years available that I invested grinding to tier X like it. I wouldn't have had the time either when my time was not my own but I worked for 50 years and called it a day so now I can mostly do what I want. The data on numbers of games played show that most only play, on average, a few games per week. Therefore, instead of grinding to, say, an Iowa, they will purchase a Georgia instead. Others will purchase Premiums to take advantage of the different play style they offer. Time and again, WG employees have said that they consider the game's income healthy. However, most here in the forums seem to think that WG lies through their teeth about everything. 

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1 minute ago, Edgecase said:

More clicks for the bait god. Zoup seems like a nice enough guy, but the informational quality of some of these videos...

You have a very loose definition of "quality" my friend...

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I watched this Zoup video not long after it was posted.  Overall, I profoundly disagree with his opinion on this.  I think that the entire video is complete crap.

Frankly, I'm glad that it's fairly easy to earn credits, FXP, whatever.  One of the things I hate about WoT is how painfully grindy it is to earn credits.    It's just no fun to play WoT when all you have to look forward to is maybe earning a few thousand credits of profit in a battle when you need a few million on the next tank.  I love that earning credits in WoWS just isn't that painful.  And so what if I end up having battleship loads of credits with nothing to spend them on?!  It's vastly better than the reverse, i.e. having lots of things to spend credits on, but knowing that it could take months of painfully boring grinding to earn them.  And, oh BTW, have plenty of tanks where you pretty much need to use lots of premium rounds that cause you to lose a crapton of credits even with a premium account and a good game.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Crucis said:

I watched this Zoup video not long after it was posted.  Overall, I profoundly disagree with his opinion on this.  I think that the entire video is complete crap.

Frankly, I'm glad that it's fairly easy to earn credits, FXP, whatever.  One of the things I hate about WoT is how painfully grindy it is to earn credits.    It's just no fun to play WoT when all you have to look forward to is maybe earning a few thousand credits of profit in a battle when you need a few million on the next tank.  I love that earning credits in WoWS just isn't that painful.  And so what if I end up having battleship loads of credits with nothing to spend them on?!  It's vastly better than the reverse, i.e. having lots of things to spend credits on, but knowing that it could take months of painfully boring grinding to earn them.  And, oh BTW, have plenty of tanks where you pretty much need to use lots of premium rounds that cause you to lose a crapton of credits even with a premium account and a good game.

 

 

Seconded, oh so many times seconded. 

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Just now, 1nv4d3rZ1m said:

@enderland07 This was good information too bad NoZoup does not care about misinforming his viewers.

Gotta feed the clicks somehow, right?

I feel dirty for listening to his last video and adding a viewcount, tbh... :cap_yes:

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4 hours ago, enderland07 said:

I just... don't even know how you can be making such ridiculous and incorrect statements so boldly yet be so wrong.

I'll take a risk, and say something that means I should probably don a flak jacket and take shelter in bunker :

Some CCs are out of touch with the experiences of players, across the board of player experiences, feelings, and outlooks. Some, expose their outoftouchness through crassly provocative (if rather tedious as they wax unlyrically in a vague droning repetitive monologue) youtube videos. Others reveal their outoftouchness in a more sympathetic manner. 

Why are they out of touch? A few ideas: ivory tower complex, sheltered within their programmed, egos buffed to 200%, showered with gifts from WG to make their gameplay experience enjoyable and painfree, flattered and further insulated by personal and portable fanclubs.

4 hours ago, enderland07 said:

Fourth, if you reset this game you give the biggest middle finger in the history of gaming to people who in many cases paid real money to get those currencies

Well quite, but also, in game currencies (credits, doublons, free xp, elite xp, tokens, steel, coal and soon rb tokens) all have a monetary value dictated and defined by the price of doublons and credits which are sold on the Premium shop. Now we as players cannot action that monetary value, but we can be aware of it. WG can action and extract that value, through currency exchange (such as elite xp to free xp conversion). So while there may be a moral impediment to deleting currencies offhand, WG also has an accounting impediment, why would it delete in game currencies when they have a monetary value which they can extract via currency exchange (e.g elite to free xp for doublons) as sold to players?

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6 minutes ago, enderland07 said:

Gotta feed the clicks somehow, right?

I feel dirty for listening to his last video and adding a viewcount, tbh... :cap_yes:

we need you to watch it again and note down EVERYTHING he says, and post it here for us to enjoy. Make sure you listen through several times.

btw, why hasn't he posted his video as per usual on the forum? Is he having login issues?

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Zoup at times is... weird in certain of his ideas.

What irks me most about this video is how it's obvious WG has backed itself up against the wall yet Zoup keeps on talking about "we" when it comes to currency saturation. 

I didn't know I was a WG employee too and pushed for all this stuff:Smile_amazed:.

Regardless, he talks with the viewpoint of the 1% that has practically everything, not the average Joe that has loads of grinds and stuff to do.

Edited by warheart1992
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4 minutes ago, LoveBote said:

we need you to watch it again and note down EVERYTHING he says, and post it here for us to enjoy. Make sure you listen through several times.

btw, why hasn't he posted his video as per usual on the forum? Is he having login issues?

Normally he posts in general instead of the CC section in all likelihood to advertise his videos. Since there are at least 2 threads about the video already there is no need to make another. 

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19 minutes ago, LoveBote said:

I'll take a risk, and say something that means I should probably don a flak jacket and take shelter in bunker :

Some CCs are out of touch with the experiences of players, across the baord of player experiences, feelings, and outlooks. Some, expose their outoftouchness through crassly provocative (if rather tedious as they wax unlyrically in a vague droning repetitive monologue) youtube videos. Others reveal their outoftouchness in a more sympathetic manner. 

Why are they out of touch? A few ideas: ivory tower complex, sheltered within their programmed, egos buffed to 200%, showered with gifts from WG to make their gameplay experience enjoyable and painfree, flattered and further insulated by personal and portable fanclubs.

I think you're 100% right about CCs being out of touch with the "common man". 

They tend to be better players than average, and as you mentioned are showered with freebies from WG so they can make videos/content. 

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38 minutes ago, UltimateNewbie said:

Seconded, oh so many times seconded. 

Thirded if that is a thing. The credit grind in Tanks is just awful but that tells me the economy there is pretty healthy. Credits actually mean something there unlike WoWS. 

BTW @LoveBote I agree that there is a disconnect with some CCs and the players just as there is one with Wargaming and it's customers. I am starting to wonder if the only people that Wargaming pays attention to are certain crazy community contributors. It would explain much. 

Edited by Taylor3006
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4 minutes ago, Taylor3006 said:

Thirded if that is a thing. The credit grind in Tanks is just awful but that tells me the economy there is pretty healthy. Credits actually mean something there unlike WoWS. 

BTW @LoveBote I agree that there is a disconnect with some CCs and the players just as there is one with Wargaming and it's customers. I am starting to wonder if the only people that Wargaming pays attention to are certain crazy community contributors. It would explain much. 

I think many of the CCs are a lot more reasonable than zoup, honestly.

Empathizing with the playerbase should be a bigger requirement of being a CC than clicks/views. But... meh, I doubt that'll ever happen. Zoup is the National Enquirer of WoWS. Every once in a while someone will read that and think it's true news, too..

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1 hour ago, enderland07 said:

Second, the reason the free xp economy is busted is... let's see, a line of flags called Dragon flags (that WG gives out abundantly) as well as camo inflation. When you can reliably get 20k fxp in a decent game, people stockpile it trivially.

Actually, WG has been more tightfisted with these flags... especially the ones that boost FXP. Rewards for the Oroboros flag that is the one most at fault for FXP farming are very rare. Papa Papa, the other flag that's useful for farming big piles of FXP got moved to be associated with by far the hardest achievement, costs the most in the store, and is similarly rare in rewards.

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4 minutes ago, enderland07 said:

I think many of the CCs are a lot more reasonable than zoup, honestly.

Empathizing with the playerbase should be a bigger requirement of being a CC than clicks/views. But... meh, I doubt that'll ever happen. Zoup is the National Enquirer of WoWS. Every once in a while someone will read that and think it's true news, too..

I was trying to not name names, forum policy and all that. And of course, there are CCs that don't fit this description, whose Youtube videos and Twitch treams I happily follow. SeaRaptor's unsalted ship reviews are very helpful, for example, Mouse's forum ship reviews, very entertaining. I guess even Zoup is entertaining, if for the wrong reasons. :Smile_glasses:

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Just now, Aetreus said:

Actually, WG has been more tightfisted with these flags... especially the ones that boost FXP. Rewards for the Oroboros flag that is the one most at fault for FXP farming are very rare. Papa Papa, the other flag that's useful for farming big piles of FXP got moved to be associated with by far the hardest achievement, costs the most in the store, and is similarly rare in rewards.

They've literally given those out every single anniversary event.

They also give out 500 fxp regularly as an item in the "more resources" crates.

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2 minutes ago, enderland07 said:

They've literally given those out every single anniversary event.

They also give out 500 fxp regularly as an item in the "more resources" crates.

After getting 500 FXP in 2000 containers over the course of at minimum 666.66666 days I'd say you deserve a FXP ship.

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What % of people playing this game do you think has way to much of everything.

I have 200M credits but could use a lot more of everything else.

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56 minutes ago, Crucis said:

I watched this Zoup video not long after it was posted.  Overall, I profoundly disagree with his opinion on this.  I think that the entire video is complete crap.

Frankly, I'm glad that it's fairly easy to earn credits, FXP, whatever.  One of the things I hate about WoT is how painfully grindy it is to earn credits.    It's just no fun to play WoT when all you have to look forward to is maybe earning a few thousand credits of profit in a battle when you need a few million on the next tank.  I love that earning credits in WoWS just isn't that painful.  And so what if I end up having battleship loads of credits with nothing to spend them on?!  It's vastly better than the reverse, i.e. having lots of things to spend credits on, but knowing that it could take months of painfully boring grinding to earn them.  And, oh BTW, have plenty of tanks where you pretty much need to use lots of premium rounds that cause you to lose a crapton of credits even with a premium account and a good game.

 

 

Exactly!!!!!! The only thing is that I kinda agree with Zoup is that there is too many currencies. I am sure there is a way to slightly reduce the amount there is while still making it unique enough to earn and save.

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1 hour ago, enderland07 said:
  • First of all, the single reason why the credit economy is busted is TX perma camos making it possible for nearly anyone to play as many TX games as they want and make credits. Add in premium time... well, it's busted

Thank God for T10 permanent camos. They're the only thing that make T10 gameplay profitable for anybody who's not super unicum. Now if only T8-9 permacamos were equally or at least somewhat profitable...

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1 hour ago, Edgecase said:

More clicks for the bait god. Zoup seems like a nice enough guy, but the informational quality of some of these videos...

Zoup has always been low effort trash. I don't even follow his channel for that reason.

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