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Speedstang

New information about how Submarines will work.

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Crossposting from reddit. Unfortunately, this is in german, but google translate works at least enough to get the gist of it.

Google translated version here: 

Spoiler

System: You control yourself identically to the event and drive in a completely different way. Where they still make 25kn over water, they manage at sea depth and completely submerged only 8kn. In the UBoot 2 tubes front, 1 tube behind. Firing at the back, as in the event or at other known Torpwerfern. Front firing consists of 2 parts. 1. Fire, the eel goes uncontrolled in the specified direction. 2. Ranzoomen (with V), on the opponent appear two rectangles, one at the bow and one at the stern. 3. Optional! Firing again, a sonarping runs towards the target. If this hits the rectangle, the eel becomes self-steering and steers towards the targeted target in a noise-controlled manner. 4. Optional! A second ping on the second rectangle hits it, so the eels dip deeper and cause more damage. Range of the imagined boat 8km. If you use the ping, the last known position of the submarine appears on the MAP !!! And ONLY on selbiger !!! Uboot surfaced, normally visible. Uboot at Seerohrtiefe, 50% visible submarine dived, 2km visible. UBoot for other UBoot only visible on 2km. DDs drive to the last known position, he is close enough to it there are circles in which the submarine could be or so (not seen, was in the submarine). If he gets enough, the DD automatically throws water bombs. (The player just has to get close enough). If 1-3 submarines hit the submarine, it's history. Oxygen: The same functionality as in the event lasts longer, but takes much longer to recharge. Is the oxygen all, not driving at sea depth anymore. He is not replenished to sea depth.

Conclusion: It would be possible to bring the UBoote into play. However, they are likely to be very difficult to balances, as they quickly become very strong, since auktuell wear only and exclusively DDs depth charges. Since DDs already have so many tasks, this is a very sharp double-edged sword. Since the boat itself reacts much slower than in the event, they are difficult to drive. The alignment with strong maneuver only very bad feasible. As in the event, moving the target sector is far too fast and too sensitive.

UPDATE: Wargaming has confirmed submarines and released an article about how they will work, along with some gameplay from their Gamescom livestream on the official WoWs twitch channel.

 https://worldofwarships.com/en/news/general-news/submarines-announcement/

https://www.twitch.tv/worldofwarships

 

Edited by Speedstang
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It seems depth charges will be auto fired in the same way that AA currently does, which is extremely concerning. CVs are already problematic, this is just adding more fuel to the fire. Destroyers being the only ships to fire depth charges would also be a rather serious problem, although I don't think that's specifically stated.

UpdateWhile it does seem that the above is true, it does not seem to be as much of an issue as I first thought. According to the article they released, submarines can either be on the surface, at periscope depth, or fully submerged. The submarine cannot attack whatsoever while fully submerged and this is the only depth where depth charges are necessary. When at periscope depth, HE shells from all ship classes will be able to damage and/or destroy it. Personally, this has made me fairly optimistic about submarines in general. Maybe there's some hope they'll be fun and properly balanced after all.

Edited by Speedstang
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Automated depth charges?   That is disappointing to say the very least.   Even the rag that is Steel Ocean Got depth charges in a pretty good place.  I expected better...     

 

Edited to add a google translation

 

   

System: You control yourself identically to the event and drive in a completely different way. Where they still make 25kn over water, they create at sea pipe depth and completely submerged only 8kn. In the submarine 2 pipes at the front, 1 pipe at the back. Fire at the back, as in the event or with other well-known torpwerfers. Front firing consists of 2 parts. 1. Fire, the eel runs uncontrolled in the specified direction. 2. Zooming (with V), two rectangles appear on the opponent, one at the bow and one at the rear. 3. Optional! Fire again, a sonarping runs towards the target. If this hits the rectangle, the eel becomes self-steering and steers noise-controlled towards the targeted target. 4. Optional! A second ping on the second rectangle, this also hits, so the eels dive deeper and cause more damage. Range of the presented boat 8km. Using the ping, the last known position of the submarine appears on the CARD!!! And ONLY on it!!! Submarine appeared, normally visible. Submarine at sea pipe depth, 50% visible submarine submerged, 2km visible. Submarine for other submarine always only visible on 2km. DDs go to the last known position, he is close enough there are circles in which the submarine could be or something (not seen, was in the submarine). If it comes close enough, the DD AUTOMATICALLY throws water bombs. (The player just needs to get close enough). If 1-3 water bombs hit the submarine, it is history. Oxygen: The same function as in the event lasts longer, but takes much longer to refuel. If the oxygen is all, even no more driving at sea pipe depth. It is not replenished at sea pipe depth.

Conclusion: It would be possible to bring the submarines into play in this way. However, they are likely to be very difficult to balance, as they quickly become very strong, as only DDs carry water bombs. Since DDs already have so many tasks, this is a very sharp double-edged sword. Since the boat itself reacts much more sluggishly than in the event they are difficult to drive. Alignment with strong maneuvers is very difficult to do. As in the event, moving the target sector is far too fast and speaks too sensitively.

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Auto depth charges??? LoL this game is just turning into a automated grind fest.

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Not sure how I feel about automated depth charges.  I don't think its on the same level as automated AA,  you can still shoot at surfaced subs,  but it feels...I dunno.  Off.

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1 minute ago, Palladia said:

Not sure how I feel about automated depth charges.  I don't think its on the same level as automated AA,  you can still shoot at surfaced subs,  but it feels...I dunno.  Off.

They think anybody that plays this game is an idiot and doesn't know how to do two things at once. 

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I prefer the automated systems for depth charges/secondaries/AA.  It let's me concentrate on using my main batteries to fend off surface attackers at the same time.  My biggest issue with the new AA is the stupid priority sector system.  I'd rather have it all automated with the ability for me to occasionally pop my defensive AA mod.

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3 minutes ago, Cpt_Whiskey72 said:

I prefer the automated systems for depth charges/secondaries/AA.  It let's me concentrate on using my main batteries to fend off surface attackers at the same time.  My biggest issue with the new AA is the stupid priority sector system.  I'd rather have it all automated with the ability for me to occasionally pop my defensive AA mod.

That's an extremely poor gameplay system as it provides no options for skillful counterplay. It's basically preset numbers that determine whether you win or lose. That's not a game, that's a spreadsheet.

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8 minutes ago, Speedstang said:

That's an extremely poor gameplay system as it provides no options for skillful counterplay. It's basically preset numbers that determine whether you win or lose. That's not a game, that's a spreadsheet.

I can see why you feel that way.  You're not entirely wrong.   I think the "skillful counterplay"  argument is a little weak.  There isn't much actual counter play to anything in this game other than try not to be the person getting shot.  For me it just comes down to what's more fun.  I know "fun" is an extremely nebulous idea, but it's just more fun for me not to have to micro manage everything.

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26 minutes ago, Legio_X_ said:

Auto depth charges??? LoL this game is just turning into a automated grind fest.

auto secondaries and auto aa have been around sicne the game's inception. So nothing really thzat new here. Hell some ships get half their damge and kills from "auto" functions already (Mass for example).

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can we get auto torps on dd & cruisers too?    hate that pesky thing called skill ruining my gameplay ... :Smile-_tongue:

make em big explosion area but think some aiming should be necessary

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Keep in mind these subs are designed for a PVE temporary event versus bots. WarGaming will not confirm or deny that subs will be in any sort of PvP game-mode due to balancing concerns. You are all getting your panties in a bunch for no reason.

So bots auto-launching depth charges like AA? Yeah... makes sense. It's an operation... versus bots.

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3 minutes ago, ElectroVeeDub said:

Keep in mind these subs are designed for a PVE temporary event versus bots. WarGaming will not confirm or deny that subs will be in any sort of PvP game-mode due to balancing concerns. You are all getting your panties in a bunch for no reason.

So bots auto-launching depth charges like AA? Yeah... makes sense. It's an operation... versus bots.

What? Wargaming already confirmed that submarines will be added to the game quite awhile ago...? This is further information about how they will work in PvP game modes. This has nothing to do with PvE or bots.

tUvxPgj.png

Edited by Speedstang

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2 minutes ago, Speedstang said:

What? Wargaming already confirmed that submarines will be added to the game quite awhile ago...? This is further information about how they will work in PvP game modes. This has nothing to do with PvE or bots.

tUvxPgj.png

Wrong. One of the devs on these forums specifically stated that they "will neither confirm nor deny" that subs will ever be in a PVP mode.

That blog is for a PVE event of some sort.

People in this game cant even handle aircraft without raging. Now y'all want subs?

Trust me... the community will HIT THE ROOF if subs ever make it to PVP. Thats why DD's are auto launching ASW like AA.

Edited by ElectroVeeDub
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8 minutes ago, Cpt_Whiskey72 said:

I can see why you feel that way.  You're not entirely wrong.   I think the "skillful counterplay"  argument is a little weak.  There isn't much actual counter play to anything in this game other than try not to be the person getting shot.  For me it just comes down to what's more fun.  I know "fun" is an extremely nebulous idea, but it's just more fun for me not to have to micro manage everything.

There is a lot in this game for skillful counterplay between the 3 main classes. To start with the entire game revolves around positioning, but proper maneuvering, prediction of the enemy team, aim, consumable usage, concealment, and other factors all play into this. The game in this regard has a lot to learn and a lot to master.

Then we come to something like rocket planes. You see them heading towards you. What do you do? There is nothing you can do. If the numbers say the planes will survive your AA you get hit; if the numbers say otherwise the CV loses their planes. All the previous factors are irrelevant here. At best you could say you could position yourself next to a ship with high AA, but again you're just giving yourself a favorable number and this isn't always possible or even viable. You don't want your destroyers sitting in the back beside the battleships.

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7 minutes ago, ElectroVeeDub said:

Keep in mind these subs are designed for a PVE temporary event versus bots. WarGaming will not confirm or deny that subs will be in any sort of PvP game-mode due to balancing concerns. You are all getting your panties in a bunch for no reason.

So bots auto-launching depth charges like AA? Yeah... makes sense. It's an operation... versus bots.

Thanks it's comforting to read that.  I'm really hoping you're right.

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LOL, AUTOMATED DEPTH CHARGES. 

I think I made the right decision to stop playing.  CV 2.Joke on its way.

 

Imagine having to dodge air cancer, water cancer, shells and worry your position along with team position.  Now add 2 priority sectors to that for Depth Charges and AA...  God what a schlitz show this game is turning into.

Edited by Forum_Troll
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@Gneisenau013 automated ASW  weapons for player controlled ships is unacceptable! Subs that had more the 2 fore and 1 aft tube being restricted to 2 fore and 1 aft tube is also unacceptable.

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The thing with DDs is they will already be pressured into doing ASW (as if they don't have enough duties already), and probably under gunfire already by other players.  Automatic ASW is probably a compromise.

 

I'm sure we'd like to be able to replicate something like Das Boot where it's a DD alone focused on killing a Submarine and the gameplay to support an indepth ASW action.  But that's likely not what's going to happen in a typical game in WoWS.  The DD is likely spotted and will be getting shot at, which was not a concern for historical ASW efforts in WWII.

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35 minutes ago, Legio_X_ said:

They think anybody that plays this game is an idiot and doesn't know how to do two things at once. 

Played a high tier random match lately?

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37 minutes ago, Legio_X_ said:

They think anybody that plays this game is an idiot and doesn't know how to do two things at once. 

Indeed.

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1 minute ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

The thing with DDs is they will already be pressured into doing ASW (as if they don't have enough duties already), and probably under gunfire already by other players.  Automatic ASW is probably a compromise.

 

I'm sure we'd like to be able to replicate something like Das Boot where it's a DD alone focused on killing a Submarine and the gameplay to support an indepth ASW action.  But that's likely not what's going to happen in a typical game in WoWS.  The DD is likely spotted and will be getting shot at, which was not a concern for historical ASW efforts in WWII.

Eh,  true,  and with the new defensive fire they are forced to pay attention to the sky on top of that,  it might be a bit overwhelming to have to pay attention underneath you while hitting defensive fire while trying to dodge shells while trying to torpedo.  Fair.

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