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Willy55_1955

WG giveth, then taketh back, Pt 2. New limits on new AA?

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So, right now there is no cooldown on AA Priority Sector once you set it until YOU decide to change it. I usually set it in advance based on my direction of travel and enemy location.

"Some players used to select the priority AA sector at the start of the battle, and then switch it just a couple of times during battle."

Yep, that's me. Set it in the beginning, changed it when I needed to.

Now you will no longer be able to do it. After you activate AA Priority Sector:

"4. AA sector reinforcement is deactivated. To use AA sector reinforcement once again, you have to wait until the end of the cooldown period, during which the efficiency of the ship’s AA defenses returns to standard values."

Also, if you use the current Manual AA fire control, to be renamed Massive AA Fire, Priority Sector cooldown becomes even LONGER:

"Together with the priority AA sector, we’ve also reworked the "Manual Fire Control for AA Armament" Commander skill, which has been renamed to "Massive AA Fire." Now, this skill will increase instantaneous damage while completely neutralizing both the adverse and positive effects of AA sector reinforcement on continuous damage. At the same time, the cooldown period before the next possible activation of the priority AA sector will become longer than for those without this skill."

WG stated goal is also to overload your already loaded workload:

"It will also require more actions and activity on the player's part."

So, you get to see where they appear to give you something, then where they take something back.

It seems like they are afraid to anger the CV player base by giving us non-CV player better AA capabilities. So we get a good shot at them on their first pass, but then suffer on the follow-on attacks, or re-attacks. And it seems like WG hopes we forget to set the Priority Sector by making it require "more actions and activity on the player's part", giving the CVs better attack odds.

Comments?

Edited by Willy55_1955
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The overlapped AA kicks in for that "issue"

Question, did you test CVs on the server?

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Bro... the AA was broken. As in over-powered... the pendulum swung too far into the favor of surface vessels. There was no skill involved. It was literally "plane come in bubble, plane deleted, don't worry, A.I.  got my back"...

Now you need to be able to multitask, activate proper sectors at proper times, while under artillery fire. You'll only be able to shoot down a few planes before they strafe you on the other side of your ship. You will be taking more damage and getting less plane ribbons. DFAA is nerfed. And if you want godlike AA you have to give up a 4 point skill and respec for it. You'll need to watch the skies while risking getting dev struck by shells. You'll need to time priority sector and not get baited for the cool-down. Now you have to think. Now you have to use team-work.

Now I know the big bad ol' planes scare you to the point you fill your pants with the smelly brown stuff... but this is about game balance so that CV's have a chance in hell of doing something productive.

Edited by ElectroVeeDub
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48 minutes ago, Willy55_1955 said:

Comments?

My comment is WG clearly has no clue what they are doing and how to balance AA. It either pretty much does nothing (initial AA on new CV release) or it is broken as all get out and extremely OP (like right now). They would have been far better off to just keep the old AA system and work it into the new CY play. The old AA system worked, fairly for all, and was easy to use. This new AA is so borked it is laughable and it gets more and more confusing on how to use it as they try and fix what they broke.

That is my comment.

Edited by AdmiralThunder
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45 minutes ago, Willy55_1955 said:

WG stated goal is also to overload your already loaded workload:

"It will also require more actions and activity on the player's part."

So, you get to see where they appear to give you something, then where they take something back.

It seems like they are afraid to anger the CV player base by giving us non-CV player better AA capabilities. So we get a good shot at them on their first pass, but then suffer on the follow-on attacks, or re-attacks. And it seems like WG hopes we forget to set the Priority Sector by making it require "more actions and activity on the player's part", giving the CVs better attack odds.

Comments?

Don't blame CV players for this change.  Alot of non-CV players wanted AA to be more interactive.  Alot of non-CV players wanted to get rid of the current AA priority sector.  If you want to blame someone, blame them.

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50 minutes ago, Willy55_1955 said:

It seems like they are afraid to anger the CV player base by giving us non-CV player better AA capabilities.

Sounds like someone needs to be forced to play 100 matches in any non-Graf T8 CV before they start posting on the Subject.

 

The Fact is this, Like it or not, it is MASSIVELY easier for AA-Scrubs to hit a key, and do little to nothing.

 

Meanwhile a CV player has to work their [edited]off to counter it. 

Which isn't exactly fair given that there is the whole you hit literally 2 keys and wipe out a flight a CV can't replace in under 5 minutes that has literally no counter until TX CVs.

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1 minute ago, Lexington_MuseumO1 said:

I really wish they'd figure this out I am so sick of everything changing every other update

The game will never stop changing via patches.  This is inherent of all online concentric games.

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1 minute ago, Burnsy said:

The game will never stop changing via patches.  This is inherent of all online concentric games.

 Not really wg would tweak things a few times a year now it's a whole new thing every few months

 It is getting old

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1 minute ago, Lexington_MuseumO1 said:

 Not really wg would tweak things a few times a year now it's a whole new thing every few months

 It is getting old

There have always been new changes with almost every patch.  Some less impactful than others, I agree.

With subs coming along now, the major changes to game mechanics are not going to slow down any time soon.

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16 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

My comment is WG clearly has no clue what they are doing and how to balance AA. It either pretty much does nothing (initial AA on new CV release) or it is broken as all get out and extremely OP (like right now). They would have been far better off to just keep the old AA system and work it into the new CY play. The old AA system worked, fairly for all, and was easy to use. This new AA is so borked it is laughable and it gets more and more confusing on how to use it as they try and fix what they broke.

That is my comment.

The AA is a WiP.  CV's were rushed out the door and they are trying to fix it.  AA / CV balance was supposed to end with 8.4, but I think the general problem here is that CV's don't fight like other ships.  All other ships have a certain range to their weaponry, CV's do not.  So balancing gameplay against an unseen enemy is tough.  There will never be a happy medium.  AA to stop damage is 100% counter intuitive to how the rest of the game is played.  That is the real problem here.  The class is too different from everything else to effectively balance with out making one or the other off fall hard off the spectrum.

As it stands right now, they have a lot more to lose if they lose 4 of 5 classes than 1 of the 5 classes that is under-played anyways.  They need to be very careful to not neuter surface ships as that is 80% of their game.  The pendulum has swung widely since last December.  It will keep swinging until they get to a damage number they have in mind that the ships should be doing.  I hope one day we find that number.  Last time it took 3 years.

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What cv player base? anyone still playing with over-nerfed-boats? lulz

 

Also people ask for more "interaction" here is~

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1 minute ago, Burnsy said:

There have always been new changes with almost every patch.  Some less impactful than others, I agree.

With subs coming along now, the major changes to game mechanics are not going to slow down any time soon.

 Understand they would make some changes to ships but this is game altering again

Im a little more understanding with subs being added  As long as they're not dumped right in to randoms and they work out some the details 1st

this CV rework has been a joke from the beginning in is still festering

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3 minutes ago, HyenaHiena said:

What cv player base? anyone still playing with over-nerfed-boats? lulz

 

Also people ask for more "interaction" here is~

I play them nearly every day.

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4 minutes ago, Lexington_MuseumO1 said:

 Understand they would make some changes to ships but this is game altering again

Im a little more understanding with subs being added  As long as they're not dumped right in to randoms and they work out some the details 1st

this CV rework has been a joke from the beginning in is still festering

I understand that many don't like the rework but they did say that there would be ongoing changes to CVs and AA for a long time.  A long time could mean that they are done after this patch, or it could mean another year.  They didn't lock themselves into a time frame.

In all likely hood, major game mechanic changes will go on for the life of the game.

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50 minutes ago, ElectroVeeDub said:

Bro... the AA was broken. As in over-powered... the pendulum swung too far into the favor of surface vessels. There was no skill involved. It was literally "plane come in bubble, plane deleted, don't worry, A.I.  got my back"...

Now you need to be able to multitask, activate proper sectors at proper times, while under artillery fire. You'll only be able to shoot down a few planes before they strafe you on the other side of your ship. You will be taking more damage and getting less plane ribbons. DFAA is nerfed. And if you want godlike AA you have to give up a 4 point skill and respec for it. You'll need to watch the skies while risking getting dev struck by shells. You'll need to time priority sector and not get baited for the cool-down. Now you have to think. Now you have to use team-work.

Now I know the big bad ol' planes scare you to the point you fill your pants with the smelly brown stuff... but this is about game balance so that CV's have a chance in hell of doing something productive.

It's kind of funny you talk about balance when there can't actually be balance between planes and ships.  AA is the only way ship captains have of trying to prevent plane attacks.  When AA is weak enough to allow plane attacks through then ships become targets waiting to be bombed with no way to actually do anything about the situation.  It seems you want planes to be dominate over ships, but how is that balanced for ship captains?

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5 minutes ago, ruar said:

It's kind of funny you talk about balance when there can't actually be balance between planes and ships.  AA is the only way ship captains have of trying to prevent plane attacks.  When AA is weak enough to allow plane attacks through then ships become targets waiting to be bombed with no way to actually do anything about the situation.  It seems you want planes to be dominate over ships, but how is that balanced for ship captains?

Prevent attacks? So your goal is to prevent 100% of aircraft attacks? Because that's balanced?

Can CV's have a "Supa-Lazorz-Ballistic-Interception-xSploder" consumable that shoots your shells down mid-flight to get the same "balance and prevent 100%" of your attacks?

Your suggestion is to stop... ALL aircraft attacks?

Edited by ElectroVeeDub

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Just now, ElectroVeeDub said:

Prevent attacks? So your goal is to prevent 100% of aircraft attacks? Because that's balanced?

Can CV's have a "Supa-Lazorz-Ballistic-Interception-xSploder" consumable that shoots your shells down mid-flight to get the same "balance and prevent 100%" of your attacks?

I can 100% stop the attacks of any ship I'm fighting on the map.  Sure it's not all the time, but I can shift the balance of the fight in my favor several different ways, to include 100% damage avoidance in some situations.

With planes I'm completely at the mercy of AA and whatever the pilot decides to do.  Once AA has been reduced in power to the point it can't stop the attack then there is nothing I can do but be a floating target.

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28 minutes ago, Burnsy said:

I play them nearly every day.

Haha ure a masochist.

 

6 minutes ago, ruar said:

It's kind of funny you talk about balance when there can't actually be balance between planes and ships.  AA is the only way ship captains have of trying to prevent plane attacks.  When AA is weak enough to allow plane attacks through then ships become targets waiting to be bombed with no way to actually do anything about the situation.  It seems you want planes to be dominate over ships, but how is that balanced for ship captains?

You says that like the cvs are on top dmg... no wait, its the BBs.

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1 minute ago, HyenaHiena said:

You says that like the cvs are on top dmg... no wait, its the BBs.

That's only been since 8.5, prior to that CVs were top damage.  And CVs get their damage without any risk to their hull health which allows them to be in the fight longer than anyone else.  They also have several other categories where they are the best.  

However, I wasn't talking about damage but the fact there is no counter to planes other than AA.

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1 minute ago, ruar said:

I can 100% stop the attacks of any ship I'm fighting on the map.  Sure it's not all the time, but I can shift the balance of the fight in my favor several different ways, to include 100% damage avoidance in some situations.

With planes I'm completely at the mercy of AA and whatever the pilot decides to do.  Once AA has been reduced in power to the point it can't stop the attack then there is nothing I can do but be a floating target.

You can stop 100% of the attacks of any ship on the map by sailing to the corner and going AFK...

You can't stop any attack. You're delusional if you think so. You're honestly of the viewpoint that you should be able to shoot down 100% of all aircraft? You can stop their attacks, but the CV cannot stop yours?

Not even the real life Navy could do that! And they got bombed, torped, and Kamikaze attacked all the time. What you want is ludicrous. You can't stop aircraft.

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The re-work broke the best AA in the game.  The fighter squadrons on your friendly CV was the best AA you could get.  Now it is non-existent.  Air superiority was a real thing in both the real world and in the first version.  Now they have to fly for 60s across the map to drop a fighter that last a short amount of time with a short range.  So yeah, boat AA is too strong to compensate. 

What we need is a mechanic so that CV's can effectively engage the enemy air power and when the opportunity arises to do meaningful damage to surface ships.  Right now they concentrate solely on ships (which pisses them off) and quite frankly their damage output is silly.  I rarely bother trying to avoid torps in my BB's, 1) because the damage is pitiful especially compared to being broadside to other BB's, 2) I rarely can avoid them effectively anyways, 3) they do crap damage (that ain't right!)

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2 minutes ago, ElectroVeeDub said:

You can stop 100% of the attacks of any ship on the map by sailing to the corner and going AFK...

You can't stop any attack. You're delusional if you think so. You're honestly of the viewpoint that you should be able to shoot down 100% of all aircraft? You can stop their attacks, but the CV cannot stop yours?

Not even the real life Navy could do that! And they got bombed, torped, and Kamikaze attacked all the time. What you want is ludicrous. You can't stop aircraft.

There are a lot of ways to prevent attacks from ships that don't require hiding in a corner.  I realize that's a great talking point for your argument but it is very biased in it's approach.

I would be more than happy for WG to provide some kind of option that allows planes to be countered in similar ways to ships, but it doesn't exist in the game.  I've yet to see any suggestion that would provide a counter so I don't hold much hope in it actually happening.

 

I'm of the viewpoint that pro-CV players completely overlook the fact that planes can't be countered and whenever AA is weak enough to allow planes to attack it turns ships into targets waiting to be farmed.  CV players tend to focus on their own damage and perspective of the game and it comes at the detriment of everyone else in the match.  If CV players could recognize the fact planes can't be balanced then maybe WG would actually take steps to provide an enjoyable experience for both groups. 

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1 hour ago, ElectroVeeDub said:

Bro... the AA was broken. As in over-powered... the pendulum swung too far into the favor of surface vessels. There was no skill involved. It was literally "plane come in bubble, plane deleted, don't worry, A.I.  got my back"...

Now you need to be able to multitask, activate proper sectors at proper times, while under artillery fire. You'll only be able to shoot down a few planes before they strafe you on the other side of your ship. You will be taking more damage and getting less plane ribbons. DFAA is nerfed. And if you want godlike AA you have to give up a 4 point skill and respec for it. You'll need to watch the skies while risking getting dev struck by shells. You'll need to time priority sector and not get baited for the cool-down. Now you have to think. Now you have to use team-work.

Now I know the big bad ol' planes scare you to the point you fill your pants with the smelly brown stuff... but this is about game balance so that CV's have a chance in hell of doing something productive.

No not really.

Its simply a buff to an opponent you cant directly engage, that is to say you cant kill the threat.. the cv itself, nor can you disengage since the planes range the entire map quickly compared to ships.

The planes should be squishy or medium ranged so the cv hull is at risk.

Thats balance.

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