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KareBear CO-OP AI issue/Whining wall of text

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Since my clan basically quit after the great CV debacle of 2019 I have found myself running CO-OP a lot to just unwind after work.  Since my Post Battle screen is currently broken after the last patch I find it a lot less irksome to not see how well or poorly I did in CO-OP than randoms.  That leads me to a quick request.  I would like to see some work done on the CO-OP AI.  Especially with regards to CVs but all ships could use some work.   I play a lot of DDs and for a very long time I was a DD main before taking time off from them (see above CV debacle).  I've begun playing them again in CO-OP.  

Take this as a grain of salt, after all we are just talking about CO-OP, Wargamings version of Solitaire, but still I find it perplexing that my annoyance with CVs extends even to CO-OP.  The CV AI is broken in a couple ways (okay more than a couple).

A.) the AI is so bad that you are at nearly no danger at all from the AIs terrible drops...assuming it even DOES drop.  Most of the time the rocket planes circle you at 1km (wish MY planes could turn that well) and are unable to get into an attack run.  They end up just circling until you shoot them down.  This leads to my next gripe with em.

B.) The AI knows EXACTLY where the enemy DDs are at ALL times and will unerringly head right for you at the start of the match regardless if you try to be cute and go somewhere the AI would never expect.  You cannot avoid them, you cannot hide from them except in smoke and even THEN they just circle you the entire match unless you manage to shoot them down.  DDs like the IJN and some others have pitiful AA. That means that while the CV has no chance whatsoever of damaging you his teammates will happily eat your lunch thanks to their ability to hit even 50+ knot, hard maneuvering DDs with the greatest of ease.  Thank goodness players rarely show that kind of aiming skill.  In my tier 8 DD against tier 10 planes I can easily be spotted and ANNOYED nearly indefinitely.

C.) Once spotted the AI CV just sails in slow lazy circles until finally blapped,  a sometimes overly long process.

That's the point of this...The annoyance, it isn't like CO-OP is difficult, no matter how hard some players try to make it so.   And I for one went to CO-OP so I WOULDN'T be annoyed after a long day of work.  But I also find its AI so basic that it takes a lot of the enjoyment out of doing it.  I would love to see the difficulty ramped up dramatically in CO-OP without giving enemy ships magic ship tracking abilities (i.e. blapping a DD in smoke that didn't fire to give away their position).  If we cannot make the AI smarter then unbalance the teams; match player tier 8s to AI tier 9s or give the AI a couple extra ships...something.  I would love to see CO-OP as a sort of training ground for Randoms.  I would like to see AI that targets the ship of greatest opportunity (stopped broadside, biggest threat etc) Instead what CO-OP does is teach people such bad habits, (insert zerg rushing DDs here) that when newer players DO try Randoms after playing CO-OP they are crushed and disenchanted or flamed.

I know it seems contradictory that in one paragraph I complain and whine about CVs and their magic DD detector just to say the bots are too easy in the next but that was just to illustrate how poor the AI bots behave.  If a CV isn't circling you the entire match like a talonless vulture the battleships/cruisers/DDs are ramming into the first ship they see.  I also know that WG makes their money in Randoms and Ranked so I can't and shouldn't expect them to expend much effort but I would love for a little more time being spent on the AI.  I left Randoms primarily because most of my clan quit thanks to the CV rework early days but also because I found myself being toxic to players, that I now know, just didn't know any better.  Although the AIs aim is good (that at least is a plus for CO-OP) The AI is so basic that even the newest player needs only a few games to learn how to game the agro system and will happily park broadside a few km away from a ship knowing it won't ever target them.  We know, as Randoms/Ranked players, that doing that will almost always get you blapped.  Here is a good clue, if a player has a <50% winrate in Randoms they absolutely should NOT have a >90% win rate in CO-OP.  We have all seen it.  Players that come to Randoms from CO-OP jumping on their teammates because they don't realize how different the two are and cannot recognize that Randoms aren't CO-OP...DDs don't charge the first BB they see (okay MOST don't), cruisers don't park broadside to BB's only a few km away (okay MOST don't) and full health BB's don't ram near dead ships and know what WASD does..(sigh..okay.).  But ask yourself...those players that DO do that in randoms/ranked...where did they learn those bad habits?  I said early I believe (without knowing for sure) that WG makes far more money in Randoms/Ranked from players buying premium, buying camo etc. than they do from CO-OP players so isn't it in their best interest to help players graduate out of CO-OP?

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You should repost this in the PVE forum. The things you name are all lazy programming choices that we have complained about for ages now. It's too bad, because coop could be genuinely fun and challenging. Unfortunately it's some combination of (1) the devs want people in Randoms so coop can't be too fun (2) the devs dont care about coop. Even thought they have said that coop mains are like a third of the playerbase. Whole clans focus on coop (FACT, for example, good guys).

 

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CV AI:
Found you! But I'm too close to attack, need to back off a bit.

Too far away to see you, need to look for a target.

Found you! But I'm too close to attack...

 

Like playing peek-a-boo with a baby.

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b) from my experience the CV sends planes towards the closest ship, and then focuses on that ship. Dont be that DD in the front if you dont like attention.

 

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Thing were tougher after they took bot carriers out; if a player brought a carrier, the bots got a battleship.

Of course some whined that Co -op was too tough, and also that there was no way to do plane tasks/missions in Co-op; about an equal number were happy; more xp and damage to farm, and all that.

Now carriers are back in Co-op again; (personally I objected to their return, but not very strongly/enthusiastically.)

In any case; carriers back in Co-op seems to be like the rework itself; ‘Be careful what you wish for; you may get it.’

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OP, I would be pleased with the planes I can now farm and leave it at that.

The rest of co-op is problematic enough for someone who also likes to play PvP and cannot realistically practice torpedo attacks at any other range than point-blank, because of the way the damn bots dodge so well. For sure I've adapted to this, and I quite like the fast-paced play that DD in co-op provides, but it's the one big thing that doesn't carry over well and it irks me sometimes.

Edited by Ensign_Cthulhu

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8 hours ago, XxX_BlindSide_XxX said:

Since my clan basically quit after the great CV debacle of 2019 I have found myself running CO-OP a lot to just unwind after work.  Since my Post Battle screen is currently broken after the last patch I find it a lot less irksome to not see how well or poorly I did in CO-OP than randoms.  That leads me to a quick request.  I would like to see some work done on the CO-OP AI.  Especially with regards to CVs but all ships could use some work.   I play a lot of DDs and for a very long time I was a DD main before taking time off from them (see above CV debacle).  I've begun playing them again in CO-OP.  

Take this as a grain of salt, after all we are just talking about CO-OP, Wargamings version of Solitaire, but still I find it perplexing that my annoyance with CVs extends even to CO-OP.  The CV AI is broken in a couple ways (okay more than a couple).

A.) the AI is so bad that you are at nearly no danger at all from the AIs terrible drops...assuming it even DOES drop.  Most of the time the rocket planes circle you at 1km (wish MY planes could turn that well) and are unable to get into an attack run.  They end up just circling until you shoot them down.  This leads to my next gripe with em.

B.) The AI knows EXACTLY where the enemy DDs are at ALL times and will unerringly head right for you at the start of the match regardless if you try to be cute and go somewhere the AI would never expect.  You cannot avoid them, you cannot hide from them except in smoke and even THEN they just circle you the entire match unless you manage to shoot them down.  DDs like the IJN and some others have pitiful AA. That means that while the CV has no chance whatsoever of damaging you his teammates will happily eat your lunch thanks to their ability to hit even 50+ knot, hard maneuvering DDs with the greatest of ease.  Thank goodness players rarely show that kind of aiming skill.  In my tier 8 DD against tier 10 planes I can easily be spotted and ANNOYED nearly indefinitely.

C.) Once spotted the AI CV just sails in slow lazy circles until finally blapped,  a sometimes overly long process.

That's the point of this...The annoyance, it isn't like CO-OP is difficult, no matter how hard some players try to make it so.   And I for one went to CO-OP so I WOULDN'T be annoyed after a long day of work.  But I also find its AI so basic that it takes a lot of the enjoyment out of doing it.  I would love to see the difficulty ramped up dramatically in CO-OP without giving enemy ships magic ship tracking abilities (i.e. blapping a DD in smoke that didn't fire to give away their position).  If we cannot make the AI smarter then unbalance the teams; match player tier 8s to AI tier 9s or give the AI a couple extra ships...something.  I would love to see CO-OP as a sort of training ground for Randoms.  I would like to see AI that targets the ship of greatest opportunity (stopped broadside, biggest threat etc) Instead what CO-OP does is teach people such bad habits, (insert zerg rushing DDs here) that when newer players DO try Randoms after playing CO-OP they are crushed and disenchanted or flamed.

I know it seems contradictory that in one paragraph I complain and whine about CVs and their magic DD detector just to say the bots are too easy in the next but that was just to illustrate how poor the AI bots behave.  If a CV isn't circling you the entire match like a talonless vulture the battleships/cruisers/DDs are ramming into the first ship they see.  I also know that WG makes their money in Randoms and Ranked so I can't and shouldn't expect them to expend much effort but I would love for a little more time being spent on the AI.  I left Randoms primarily because most of my clan quit thanks to the CV rework early days but also because I found myself being toxic to players, that I now know, just didn't know any better.  Although the AIs aim is good (that at least is a plus for CO-OP) The AI is so basic that even the newest player needs only a few games to learn how to game the agro system and will happily park broadside a few km away from a ship knowing it won't ever target them.  We know, as Randoms/Ranked players, that doing that will almost always get you blapped.  Here is a good clue, if a player has a <50% winrate in Randoms they absolutely should NOT have a >90% win rate in CO-OP.  We have all seen it.  Players that come to Randoms from CO-OP jumping on their teammates because they don't realize how different the two are and cannot recognize that Randoms aren't CO-OP...DDs don't charge the first BB they see (okay MOST don't), cruisers don't park broadside to BB's only a few km away (okay MOST don't) and full health BB's don't ram near dead ships and know what WASD does..(sigh..okay.).  But ask yourself...those players that DO do that in randoms/ranked...where did they learn those bad habits?  I said early I believe (without knowing for sure) that WG makes far more money in Randoms/Ranked from players buying premium, buying camo etc. than they do from CO-OP players so isn't it in their best interest to help players graduate out of CO-OP?

A - yup the new bot CV AI is terrible. They really are no threat at all other than they keep you spotted for extended periods while the planes just circle you. They almost never actually drop bombs or rockets. They seem to get torps off but from the worst angle possible or too close so they don't arm. The only time you should take a bot CV torp now is if you decided that damage (which is pathetically low now) is worth taking over turning to dodge and thus exposing your side to the reds which will do REAL damage to you. Current bot CV's are NO threat to surface ships. None. The old bot CV's actually could mess you up if you didn't pay attention but the new one = LOL. Of course I prefer that, and the ability to farm planes for rewards and missions, to Skynet controlled CV's which could ruin the mode. So no complaints; just observations.

B - The bots have ALWAYS known exactly where the green team is even when undetected. This is not new. They will hunt you down and close in even if you go dark and have a faster ship then they do. If it is one of those games where you are the only human left and they are chasing you like a pack of wolves they will mirror your every move and even their guns will swing and move to follow you despite you being undetected. It is not just DD's that this happens to. The AI will target DD 1st just as humans do but they know where all the ships are. Bots also get vastly improved accuracy & RNG for the big hits, fire % chance, ability to dodge torps that defy real world physics and in game mechanics, they can launch torps at angles that are impossible for their ship (like straight ahead with no bow tubes) and they can launch them even after dead, etc... These are built in things I can only assume to give them some ability to compete. It's the lazy way to make a competitive bot. Why spend hours coding strategy and such when you can just give them abilities the human players don't have. If you play Co-op you accept these things.

C - this is also something that is the "norm" for Co-op. It was like this in the old system and it has carried on into the new. Don't expect a bot CV, red or green, to cap or do anything but sail the back line and circle a given area. They will ignore targets close in attacking them to go for something in the distance that is of no immediate threat, they will do nothing if their team is losing cap wise, etc... Another of those Co-op things you just accept. Bot CV's (red) are also Ninja Masters at dodging incoming fire and torpedoes. It's amazing how the red bot CV can maneuver as good or better than a DD yet my CV's handle like drunk whales. Yes, it can take some time at the end to run them down and sink them. I will take that trade off for the increased rewards we get for killing them and shooting down planes. It's not a big deal. And it is actually fun when you guess right on a bot CV's juke and land a dev strike on it.

Other...

  • Who (ie; Co-op mains) said Co-op is "hard" There is a big difference between saying it is "harder than" a lot of PVP snobs say and calling something "hard". There are an awful lot of people who talk about how easy Co-op is in spawn and such and then yolo ahead and die 30 sec into the game. PVP is harder but Co-op has it's own challenges and things you must be cautious of (you list some yourself) or you go back to port early. NO reasonable person calls it hard though. You can have a hard game when down alone vs multiple, and it can be hard if you insist on charging mid and right into the hoard all the time, etc... Overall it's not hard though.
  • Bots do not blind fire into smoke nor do they torp into smoke. If you got hit by shells or torps in your smoke it was because a friendly ran behind you and the bot(s) was/were targeting it and you were in the way. This happens a lot so you have to keep an eye behind you when in smoke (drives me nuts the way some players will sit behind you just behind the smoke or how say BB's will charge right through the smoke behind you, and T-bone you in the process most times, as it puts me in the DD at risk for collateral damage I don't need to take). It can also be a case of the bots firing while you were still detected and it taking a bit for the shells to arrive. But, once undetected for a bit the bots do NOT blind fire you. They just don't. When it happens it is not what you think it is.
  • There is nothing wrong with Co-op as is. It is fun for those who main the mode. IF you don't like it well too bad. Co-op mains don't like PVP which is why we play Co-op. We enjoy the more arcade like play to the boring run for the back line and/or hide behind an island peek-a-boo play of PVP. Nothing wrong with either actually; to each their own. It is ok, and better, that there are some differences though as it allows more people somewhere to enjoy playing.
  • Co-op teaches you the basics of the game and will actually make you a good defensive player in Randoms (if you care and try of course) as the bots shoot so well and cheat so much you learn how to mitigate taking damage fast. It does not do well teaching shooting (bots are much easier to hit) other than very basics of a ship like adjusting to slow or fast shells on a ship. PVP is what teaches you how to shoot for PVP. But overall Co-op does not teach any more bad habits than PVP will. It's the exact same game with the same mechanics (for humans anyway LOL). If you don't learn within a game or 2 that trying to play DD in PVP like you do Co-op won't work that isn't Co-op's fault; it's yours.
  • NO issue with them improving on the AI and adding some challenges. Some of your suggestions are ones Co-op mains have advocated for all along like more ships for the bots (with a qualifier of X # of humans needed). However, we don't need Co-op to become PVP lite either. WG already tried that with an update back before the CV rework and it was a complete disaster. Turns out bots are just as good, or even better, at running away and hiding all game as humans if programmed to do so. WG thought "improving" Co-op meant making it the same as PVP. It was a complete disaster and almost ruined the mode.  If you think chasing down 1 CV is laborious imagine 1/2 the reds running away and hiding all game like that because that is exactly what they gave us to "improve" the mode. The bots would move up at 1st then turn and runaway and you spent the entire game chasing them. It SUCKED! If you want naval chess and passive play then  stick to PVP. If you want a fast paced, in your face brawl, where you can blap stuff go Co-op. Do not take the brawl out of Co-op or you ruin it. 
  • You make a lot of assumptions about who spends what in this game. I can assure you Co-op mains spend, and spend a LOT! FTP only goes so far in Co-op before you just can't due to the drastically reduced rewards. If you want to play high tiers you MUST have Premium time, flags, perma camo, etc... It isn't an option unless you only play there sparingly and cover the costs through other modes and play. Fact is Co-op mains spend too and we spend a lot. I will put my "whaleness" LOL against ANYONE in this game. It is a myth that PVP players, individually, spend more than Co-op players. Overall probably due to the #'s. But Co-op mains spend as well and as said we spend a lot (Premium time, camo's, flags, ships, doubloons, etc...). 
  • PVP only players can be as big or bigger of a potato as any Co-op player. Don't make assumptions about players. It is ludicrous for you to believe all those scenarios you mentioned were Co-op players in Randoms/Ranked. Co-op does not teach sitting broadside for example. If you do that in Co-op, with the bots super aim, you go home fast. People ram in PVP too that is not Co-op exclusive. Yolo DD play is a Co-op thing but the rest? NOT!
  • With all due respect who are you to want people to "graduate out of Co-op". People with this attitude just don't get it. Co-op mains play Co-op because we do NOT like PVP. IF you try and get me out of Co-op you get me out of the game and I know many players with the same attitude. Although you still play PVP you yourself have admitted you play some Co-op to avoid all that is PVP. Why can you not get it that for many of us we want to avoid that toxic mess entirely and not just here and there. 

This game does not have to be 100% PVP. Co-op is not bad for the game. Instead of us vs them how about people just accept we all play and support this game. Co-op players don't hurt your PVP mode. All they do is add more revenue to the game which helps PVP players too. Let people play where they want and stop trying to force, coerce, convince, manipulate, etc... the Co-op mains into PVP. All you (and WG) will do is drive us out of the game entirely.

Edited by AdmiralThunder
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1 hour ago, AdmiralThunder said:

Let people play where they want and stop trying to force, coerce, convince, manipulate, etc... the Co-op mains into PVP. All you (and WG) will do is drive us out of the game entirely.

I gave up hoping this would come to fruition; not allowing pve to complete certain missions and the general direction of the game the past few months made me realize it's time to stop spending on this sinking ship.  WG is too stubborn to make changes for the better, only adding more bloat like NTC.

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So what I gather is folks like having 99% win rates in CO-OP?  If there is nearly no chance of ever losing whats the point in playing?  You may as well play solitaire after making sure that every card that's turned over is the one that's needed...There is ZERO challenge to CO-OP.  Perfect example was last night...it was me and 15 bots....easy win.  I understand folks out there don't always like a lot of challenge but NO challenge?  Right now CO-OP is good for 1 thing and that is finishing missions quickly.  

I am not saying CO-OP is bad for the game, by all means a lot of the toxicity evaporates in PVE.  If CO-OP was even moderately challenging it would make it far MORE interesting to play and I would probably find myself playing it more. My dad taught me something when I was very young; if it's worth doing, do it right.  Don't half-bleep it.

Maybe if it WAS more challenging CO-OP folks would finally earn some XP instead of complaining about how little they got as they have in the past.  I for one, as a primarily PVPer, would LOVE to see CO-OP actually teach the basics of the game as someone suggested above but it doesn't.  It teaches you how to beat up on moronic bots with no self-preservation and that's it like some ship based version of whack-a-mole.  There was another game in the tank realm very similar to WOT where it was obvious the developers spent a bit with the AI because you could often forget you were fighting BOTs.  It made the PVE world there so enjoyable I never even considered going into the PVP side of it even though I have been a life long PVPer.  What I am suggesting and have suggested is that WG fix CO-OP here by making the bots "smarter" to make it fun enough that MORE folks would enjoy playing it...or do you like going 1 vs 15 against bots?

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Title makes me think of this. 

tumblr_inline_o1unt0KsRR1qjiqux_500.jpg

Isn't that what OPs is all about? A harder version of PvE. Or are we asking for raid bosses now like Bismarck (Extreme) in every PvE game? 

Edited by Yoshiblue

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11 minutes ago, Yoshiblue said:

Title makes me think of this. 

tumblr_inline_o1unt0KsRR1qjiqux_500.jpg

Isn't that what OPs is all about? A harder version of PvE. Or are we asking for raid bosses now like Bismarck (Extreme) in every PvE game? 

"A harder version of PvE." implies there is already some level of difficulty to it.  I believe that if you make CO-OP more attractive to more players by making the BOTs smarter and more engaging then the PVE player base will increase meaning fewer 1 vs 15 bot matches like I just had at prime time in a tier 10...(easy win btw).

 

PS...I was quite proud of the title :P

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1 hour ago, XxX_BlindSide_XxX said:

So what I gather is folks like having 99% win rates in CO-OP?  If there is nearly no chance of ever losing whats the point in playing?  You may as well play solitaire after making sure that every card that's turned over is the one that's needed...There is ZERO challenge to CO-OP.  Perfect example was last night...it was me and 15 bots....easy win.  I understand folks out there don't always like a lot of challenge but NO challenge?  Right now CO-OP is good for 1 thing and that is finishing missions quickly.  

I am not saying CO-OP is bad for the game, by all means a lot of the toxicity evaporates in PVE.  If CO-OP was even moderately challenging it would make it far MORE interesting to play and I would probably find myself playing it more. My dad taught me something when I was very young; if it's worth doing, do it right.  Don't half-bleep it.

Maybe if it WAS more challenging CO-OP folks would finally earn some XP instead of complaining about how little they got as they have in the past.  I for one, as a primarily PVPer, would LOVE to see CO-OP actually teach the basics of the game as someone suggested above but it doesn't.  It teaches you how to beat up on moronic bots with no self-preservation and that's it like some ship based version of whack-a-mole.  There was another game in the tank realm very similar to WOT where it was obvious the developers spent a bit with the AI because you could often forget you were fighting BOTs.  It made the PVE world there so enjoyable I never even considered going into the PVP side of it even though I have been a life long PVPer.  What I am suggesting and have suggested is that WG fix CO-OP here by making the bots "smarter" to make it fun enough that MORE folks would enjoy playing it...or do you like going 1 vs 15 against bots?

confused.gif.e693b3c5a0982aeb31b147f569ff68ac.gif

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3 hours ago, XxX_BlindSide_XxX said:

So what I gather is folks like having 99% win rates in CO-OP?  If there is nearly no chance of ever losing whats the point in playing?  You may as well play solitaire after making sure that every card that's turned over is the one that's needed...There is ZERO challenge to CO-OP.  Perfect example was last night...it was me and 15 bots....easy win.  I understand folks out there don't always like a lot of challenge but NO challenge?  Right now CO-OP is good for 1 thing and that is finishing missions quickly.  

I am not saying CO-OP is bad for the game, by all means a lot of the toxicity evaporates in PVE.  If CO-OP was even moderately challenging it would make it far MORE interesting to play and I would probably find myself playing it more. My dad taught me something when I was very young; if it's worth doing, do it right.  Don't half-bleep it.

Maybe if it WAS more challenging CO-OP folks would finally earn some XP instead of complaining about how little they got as they have in the past.  I for one, as a primarily PVPer, would LOVE to see CO-OP actually teach the basics of the game as someone suggested above but it doesn't.  It teaches you how to beat up on moronic bots with no self-preservation and that's it like some ship based version of whack-a-mole.  There was another game in the tank realm very similar to WOT where it was obvious the developers spent a bit with the AI because you could often forget you were fighting BOTs.  It made the PVE world there so enjoyable I never even considered going into the PVP side of it even though I have been a life long PVPer.  What I am suggesting and have suggested is that WG fix CO-OP here by making the bots "smarter" to make it fun enough that MORE folks would enjoy playing it...or do you like going 1 vs 15 against bots?

q4dvgA3.jpg

I don't even know how to respond. The stuff above is so messed up it even broke Dr. Phil...:Smile_amazed:

4DCVnmW.gif

Edited by AdmiralThunder

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Oh well time to close the post.  Once the memes come out adding zero to the discussion its pointless to continue.  If you bothered reading the replies many others wrote it would have made perfect sense.  To be perfectly honest even if you had just read the entirety of the reply you quoted you would have understood the intent behind it but reading is hard memes are easy.

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8 minutes ago, XxX_BlindSide_XxX said:

Oh well time to close the post.  Once the memes come out adding zero to the discussion its pointless to continue.  If you bothered reading the replies many others wrote it would have made perfect sense.  To be perfectly honest even if you had just read the entirety of the reply you quoted you would have understood the intent behind it but reading is hard memes are easy.

Many others (25% of the posts are from you)? Most of the others who responded disagree with you all or in part.

Sadly I did read everything you wrote and it is time lost I will never get back.

I disagree with you to the extreme on most of it. I brought the memes out as they seemed appropriate and better than wasting time responding. But you want a response? Fine here you go...

With all due respect (seriously) you don't get it. It's not about win rate or easy vs hard. It's about the playstyle (ie; fast paced, in your face, brawl) and what Co-op is overall that appeals to us. We DON'T WANT it to be like PVP. Why is that so hard for you to understand? Your suggestions mainly will change it to PVP lite and as I already told you in my thoughtful and detailed 1st response WG tried that already and it absolutely was awful. It ruined Co-op.

IF you want to make changes that's fine but you need to keep the core game play as is because that is what draws the majority of players there who main the mode. 

The rest of the stuff you wrote is just the usual PVP mentality driven slams on Co-op and those who play there. It's NOT worth responding to, a lot of it is dead WRONG, so I used a meme instead.

 

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Oh well two more that are in life for the participation trophies.  You want things easy, got it.  You don't want to be challenged, got it.  May I suggest solitaire?

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3 minutes ago, XxX_BlindSide_XxX said:

Oh well two more that are in life for the participation trophies.  You want things easy, got it.  You don't want to be challenged, got it.  May I suggest solitaire?

May I suggest you continue with someone who actually cares what you think then because we don't give a flying fig about your opinion.

And again you have totally missed the mark. You don't and never will get it so just move on my man. Has nothing to do with easy or participation trophies. I explained why I like Co-op over PVP. YMMV. Grow up.

Edited by AdmiralThunder
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On 8/19/2019 at 8:22 PM, XxX_BlindSide_XxX said:

I would love to see CO-OP as a sort of training ground for Randoms

while i agree bot code can be better, do we really want it to emulate campfest meta and all that entails? 

having get in quick short lasting games (usually) is pretty big draw for lots of people

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1 hour ago, XxX_BlindSide_XxX said:

Oh well two more that are in life for the participation trophies.  You want things easy, got it.  You don't want to be challenged, got it.  May I suggest solitaire?

I am quite good at solitaire as well. However it's lacking in the ships blowing up category that I love so much. 

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13 hours ago, XxX_BlindSide_XxX said:

Oh well time to close the post.  Once the memes come out adding zero to the discussion its pointless to continue.  If you bothered reading the replies many others wrote it would have made perfect sense.  To be perfectly honest even if you had just read the entirety of the reply you quoted you would have understood the intent behind it but reading is hard memes are easy.

You know this is a game and not real life?

I do not need to have a "challenge" for have fun and relax time.

The problem is your and American way of life to be "always the best" the "alpha male" etc etc.

I have better time with friends in co-op then with kids with "attitude problems" in pvp

Regards

Edited by Mikebello
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Yeah, WG tried to "fix" coop, it was an utter disaster.  Bots running at the first sight of a enemy ship, bots hiding behind islands because of what?  Often there was nothing for them to shoot at and nothing shooting at them.  Then having to chase bots all over the map at the end of each match as they stopped shooting back, went dark and ran for it.  They tried to make it PvP lite and it was awful.  It was boring and slow paced = no fun.  Exactly NOT what we like about COOP.

Yeah the bots can be dumb now, but at least they make it fun to engage in a brawl for a few minutes each match.  Oh, and bring you fire prevention skills because they almost without fail start fires on their first and last shell. 

DDs, CL/CA, and BBs can get in and engage multiple targets, I've even seen aggressive CV captains capping!  Even slow BBs can be effective if positioned correctly.

OP if you don't enjoy COOP, why are you here playing?  Most players here enjoy the difference from PvP play, it's why they are here, it's definitely not for the overwhelming profits available here.

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