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monpetitloup

the state of MM ruining games.

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Observe this example. what happened here, I carry, but once dead those left alive having spent all match hiding behind A come out to die. then check stats after 36 percent win rate over 61 games. fps mm is clearly screwing someone, cause these guys are actively playing for the other team.

 

image.thumb.png.c375906c0ee9abde6162cd0639d400bb.png

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Your team average is 45% and their team average is 46%. That's not a big delta?

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But that's the kind of thing you would see in a balanced matchmaker. An average of 45% vs 46% is close enough for horse shoes and hand grenades, and little different in the grand scheme.

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3 minutes ago, Shoggoth_pinup said:

But that's the kind of thing you would see in a balanced matchmaker. An average of 45% vs 46% is close enough for horse shoes and hand grenades, and little different in the grand scheme.

7 minutes ago, pikohan said:

Your team average is 45% and their team average is 46%. That's not a big delta?

cant you see half their team is without stats and they still have the same stats as us?

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The psychological effect of MMM, similarly  to XVM outweighs any potential benefits, that's what I observe.

Just give it your best and go for win even if you have to drag the sorry carcass that's often called a team.

Besides I don't see anyone posting the times his team far surpassed the red one stats wise.

Edited by warheart1992
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2 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

The psychological effect of MMM, similarly  to XVM outweighs any potential benefits, that's what I observe.

Just give it your best and go for win even if you have to drag the sorry carcass that's often called a team.

Besides I don't see anyone posting the times his team far surpassed the red one stats wise.

Exactly this ^^^. XVM was toxic in WoT, once I turned it off I enjoyed myself much more. What the OP is looking at seems to me to provide the same level of info that leads to conclusions before that battle even starts - will lead to stat shaming and all the other bovine faeces that happened in the tank game.

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@monpetitloup lose the toxic MMM it is garbage and is rotting your brain. I you cant quit using it and spouting off nonsense such as this thread then just quit playing the game.

GAME it is a GAME! No one is going to die because some people will play stupidly. 

No change to any MM can stop people from playing stupid!

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Just now, monpetitloup said:

cant you see half their team is without stats and they still have the same stats as us?

And? Your own performance isn't added in to the average, either. For better or worse, theirs is excluded. They could up it, or they could even lower it. Not to mention that below 10 games means they are new to the ship, which would only drag down whatever performance they might otherwise see.

There's not much that can really be done even with MM changes. For starters, how do you think a skill-based MM would calculate things like that? It can't send someone with 1 match in a ship and 100% WR to the same matches as people with 200 matches and 80% WR.  Likewise, one can be the god of DDs but terrible in a CA, so it can't be account-wide, either. Even type-wide would be hard to use, as two nations can be wildly different. Imagine someone who is 70% WR across 100 matches in Kitakaze taking Mogador out. The skill set is not alike at all.

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8 minutes ago, Shoggoth_pinup said:

And? Your own performance isn't added in to the average, either. For better or worse, theirs is excluded. They could up it, or they could even lower it. Not to mention that below 10 games means they are new to the ship, which would only drag down whatever performance they might otherwise see.

There's not much that can really be done even with MM changes. For starters, how do you think a skill-based MM would calculate things like that? It can't send someone with 1 match in a ship and 100% WR to the same matches as people with 200 matches and 80% WR.  Likewise, one can be the god of DDs but terrible in a CA, so it can't be account-wide, either. Even type-wide would be hard to use, as two nations can be wildly different. Imagine someone who is 70% WR across 100 matches in Kitakaze taking Mogador out. The skill set is not alike at all.

That MMM uses that ships WR and the players performance in other ships is ignored.

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Just now, BrushWolf said:

That MMM uses that ships WR and the players performance in other ships is ignored.

I realize. I said MM, not MMM. He's acting like he wants change based on that game, so I'm telling him why it'd never work.

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Oh, figured this was another tier 8s being in tier 10 battles rage whine.  Carry on.

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2 hours ago, monpetitloup said:

image.thumb.png.4821286de007b3980a56de66fe918a28.png

Kind of wish that you hadn't edited out the ships each player was in, as that data point helps in matching up their average damage to what I might expect to be decent.

I will say that for the above battle, there seems to be an odd skill thing going on.  The other team has a couple of purple average damage players, which should be good, but they also have 3 players who are new to their ships, which is, well, a mystery for all concerned.  One doesn't know if those are good or bad players, only that they're new to the ship.

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2 hours ago, warheart1992 said:

Besides I don't see anyone posting the times his team far surpassed the red one stats wise.

That happens. I was just noting today in chat how unfair the MM we got was -- we had a div (us), the other team had none. It was an inherently unfair match up -- I picked up 300 games of data on it, the team with the extra div wins like 60% of the time. In that match we cruised.

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31 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

That happens. I was just noting today in chat how unfair the MM we got was -- we had a div (us), the other team had none. It was an inherently unfair match up -- I picked up 300 games of data on it, the team with the extra div wins like 60% of the time. In that match we cruised.

Tai, that's only a 10% point, i.e.  20% advantage.  Significant, perhaps, but not necessarily devastating.  I suspect that WG has better stats on this.

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3 hours ago, monpetitloup said:

Observe this example. what happened here, I carry, but once dead those left alive having spent all match hiding behind A come out to die. then check stats after 36 percent win rate over 61 games. fps mm is clearly screwing someone, cause these guys are actively playing for the other team.

 

image.thumb.png.c375906c0ee9abde6162cd0639d400bb.png

Dude, I don't think that your screen grabs are showing anywhere near enough to make your case.  Frankly, I don't think that they're showing much of anything, relative to MM, other than to say that there are a lot of weak players.

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3 hours ago, monpetitloup said:

Observe this example. what happened here, I carry, but once dead those left alive having spent all match hiding behind A come out to die. then check stats after 36 percent win rate over 61 games. fps mm is clearly screwing someone, cause these guys are actively playing for the other team.

 

Just some humble advise, Stop! Stop using MMM... Its obvious to me, your not a math major to handle the MMM information with any responsibility...

STOP! Being reckless with MMM and enjoy the match...  

Also, the next time you have a though about MMM.... Just let it go...

Uninstall MMM for your own good.

BTW

MM is fine... What I worry about is those same %40 and below players flooding the match with OP/Over capable ships... THAT is messed up for many reasons

Edited by Navalpride33
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Monitor is only good if you’re calm and good enough to use it. Call out unicum targets as high priority and support your best players. I’ve lost my fair share of games when my team is 10% or more ahead. Never underestimate how badly your team can play, especially if they think it’ll be an easy win

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2 hours ago, Taichunger said:

That happens. I was just noting today in chat how unfair the MM we got was -- we had a div (us), the other team had none. It was an inherently unfair match up -- I picked up 300 games of data on it, the team with the extra div wins like 60% of the time. In that match we cruised.

I won like 67% of match that I was in  division.       division is  unfair  . oh yah,    lol.    nvm  :cap_haloween:   its a good thing I don't div much.   much fairer to others 

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Well not that this matters, but i have about 170 to 180 days left of premium. when that expires i will not renew, on top of that i am warning everyone that asks to stay the [edited] away from this game reasons following. 

1.) TO BE HISTORICALLY ACCURATE AS THE GAME PORTRAYS ITSELF....to my knowledge the Germans never fought in the Asian theater 

2.) most battles in the Atlantic did not happens around islands 

3.) i am damn sure if you hid in battle you were brought up on charges asap 

4.) the reason i know number 3 is i spent 25 years in the USMC

5.) why is the ocean map not in rotation (as most Atlantic battles took place in the open sea)

6.) why is there not a penalty for hiding behind islands

7.) your karma system is a [edited]joke

8.) YOUR BLACK LIST OPTION IS EVEN WORSE. (I.E. i have black listed [edited] players only to find myself in the next match or 4 with them)

9.) when it comes down to the game why do more people prefer scenarios over randoms? Here is a hint you have to work in scenarios ...not hide 

10.) that all being said, and i know i will get tons of crapfor posting this i am done with this game when my premium runs out, and i will discourage anyone i know from even starting this to play this used tampon of a game, sadly my clan (37 only) is starting to feel the same way. so in short WOWS you have [edited] yourself, also i know i realize i will get tons of Pro WOWS crapnow...but frankly there are at least 30 plus people that are done.....way to go....you did this to yourselves....btw i could give a crapabout these forums i check them about every 6 months if i think about them...and i fully expect WOWS to [edited] with my account now.

 

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1 hour ago, Crucis said:

Tai, that's only a 10% point, i.e.  20% advantage.  Significant, perhaps, but not necessarily devastating.  I suspect that WG has better stats on this.

Yeah, its a 10 point swing from 50% but if you think about it, it's huge. Suppose you dial up a player and he has a 68% win rate, you know he's good. In divisions of three I have 2558 battles with a 68% win rate, it's even higher at T7. That's unicum territory, and some ships I run higher because I only play them divved. Lifetime solo I am mediocre, but divved I am near-unicum. I play stronger and win a lot more -- because I am the kind of player who likes the supporting role.

Divisions are an enormous advantage. I think having a strong div on one side and no div on the other is more unfair than a moderately unbalanced MM, especially below the high tiers where a few solid players can lead a comeback. The odds that all three strong players will have a bad game is pretty low....

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1 minute ago, Curtis_17 said:

Well not that this matters, but i have about 170 to 180 days left of premium. when that expires i will not renew, on top of that i am warning everyone that asks to stay the [edited] away from this game reasons following. 

1.) TO BE HISTORICALLY ACCURATE AS THE GAME PORTRAYS ITSELF....to my knowledge the Germans never fought in the Asian theater 

Wrong. For both world wars.

1 minute ago, Curtis_17 said:

5.) why is the ocean map not in rotation (as most Atlantic battles took place in the open sea)

It is widely disliked.

1 minute ago, Curtis_17 said:

6.) why is there not a penalty for hiding behind islands

Because that is a smart tactic used by good players to gain advantages.

1 minute ago, Curtis_17 said:

7.) your karma system is a [edited]joke

It would be worse if it actually meant something.

1 minute ago, Curtis_17 said:

8.) YOUR BLACK LIST OPTION IS EVEN WORSE. (I.E. i have black listed [edited] players only to find myself in the next match or 4 with them)

Blacklisting prevents you from contacting people in port, not from being in game with them.

1 minute ago, Curtis_17 said:

9.) when it comes down to the game why do more people prefer scenarios over randoms? Here is a hint you have to work in scenarios ...not hide 

Evidence for this assertion? Far more people play Randoms.

1 minute ago, Curtis_17 said:

10.) that all being said, and i know i will get tons of crapfor posting this i am done with this game when my premium runs out, and i will discourage anyone i know from even starting this to play this used tampon of a game, sadly my clan (37 only) is starting to feel the same way. so in short WOWS you have [edited] yourself, also i know i realize i will get tons of Pro WOWS crapnow...but frankly there are at least 30 plus people that are done.....way to go....you did this to yourselves....btw i could give a crapabout these forums i check them about every 6 months if i think about them...and i fully expect WOWS to [edited] with my account now.

Can I have all your stuff?

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1 hour ago, Navalpride33 said:

Just some humble advise, Stop! Stop using MMM... Its obvious to me, your not a math major to handle the MMM information with any responsibility...

STOP! Being reckless with MMM and enjoy the match...  

Also, the next time you have a though about MMM.... Just let it go...

Uninstall MMM for your own good.

BTW

MM is fine... What I worry about is those same %40 and below players flooding the match with OP/Over capable ships... THAT is messed up for many reasons

I don't know that MM is "fine".  I do know that the data the OP showed doesn't tell me anything useful about MM, one way or the other.

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The OP makes a good case for banning MMM. The info MMM supplies is useless except to cause more toxicity and anxiety.

Random: without definite aim, direction, rule, or method

The +- 2 tier for ships and players who have reach account level 3 is the only criteria used by WG.

So many think randoms should be balanced bouts.

Edited by kgh52

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Of all the things I dislike in the game...magic island penetrating radar, hydro that somehow manages to work with all the shell splashes friendly ships etc for what feels like half an hour (slight exaggeration), the proliferation of broken ships while others go unloved, the dumbing down of the community thanks to people that complain about paper ships using islands for cover....(You don't think even a battleship using cover when available/advisable is a smart play? Dead ships can't help their team)( I suppose in tanks you would just park in an open field ala Gettysburg and trade shots or you want battles like Jutland where everyone just lines up and goes, "come at me bro, one at a time please")...of ALL of that and even more I couldn't be bothered to list the MM is NOT there.  The fact for every 55%+ player there seems to be a <45% player tells me the MM is working pretty well considering all the xfactors involved.  As a non-unicum but above average player I hate mmm.  Not only because it takes the heart out of players before the match even starts but because like many I have felt the sting of being focused for no other reason that I happened to be decent in a ship.  WG should take that toxic catalyst out of the approved mods list.... ya, ya ya.  DDs are cowards and OP, Cruisers are cowards and just spam HE, BBs are bullies that one shot everything and CVs are just there...we have heard it all before....

If you insist on keeping MMM take it as a challenge to up your game and drag your team to a victory despite what MMM tells you.  Use it to play smarter...heck even folks in CO-OP understand that if 75% of your team is bots you need to play smart in order to win by offsetting how bad the rest of the team will be.  MMM has 2 uses...to either make you overconfident resulting in a loss or make you give up before the match starts....again resulting in a loss.

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