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Snargfargle

Do You Even Need Manual Secondary Fire Control?

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In a game just now I thought I'd put a commander that had the IFHE skill on my Massachusetts. However, this commander, being a 15-pointer, didn't have the MFCS skill. From the results, it seems, that this skill might not exactly be necessary. I think I'm seeing as many hits and more significant damage from hits with IFHE alone than with MFCS alone. In a brawling situation it's nice to have fire coming out from both sides of my ship too. Any thoughts? I'll have to play a few more matches to test this.

image.thumb.png.eda50f94b6773d13bb9527f7eea4e149.png

 

  

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On certain ships it works great. I even use it on my Kremlin cause I like to brawl.

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4 minutes ago, Snargfargle said:

In a game just now I thought I'd put a commander that had the IFHE skill on my Massachusetts. However, this commander, being a 15-pointer, didn't have the MFCS skill. From the results, it seems, that this skill might not exactly be necessary. I think I'm seeing as many hits and more significant damage from hits with IFHE alone than with MFCS alone. In a brawling situation it's nice to have fire coming out from both sides of my ship too. Any thoughts? I'll have to play a few more matches to test this.

image.thumb.png.eda50f94b6773d13bb9527f7eea4e149.png

 

  

You would definitely have had more secondary hits running it.

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Here is my second game. I got 57 hits this time without MFCS, though less damage per hit as I was mainly brawling BBs. With DDs IFHE doesn't matter and with most BBs too but with cruisers I it does.

 

image.thumb.png.d8375f7f9a9565734e991e93189ca05f.png

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11 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Certain ships have more accurate secondary suites.

Massachusetts is one of these, I believe. One of those pay2win ships.

For me, it was a someone gave it to me FTW ship.

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Honestly, I have the uncommon take that its not AS needed as the base dispersion on Mass' secondaries is already much better than on other BBs. IFHE is better, yes, but I prefer a hybrid build myself. Plus they act as an early warning system for DDs that suddenly pop up.

Plus I'm a bit lazy when it comes to ctrl clicking ships, lol.

AFT is still a must, though.

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i dont think you would have the same hit ratio with MFCS. Yes it depends on this ships you are firing upon but throwing out 516 for only 47 landing...you just got lucky on the damage im thinking. id run 5 games with IFHE and 5 with MFCS and see what happens

 

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Massachusetts has secondaries that are similar to Georgia's.  If you read Little White Mouse's review of Georgia, MFCS can sometimes actually be counter productive in certain situations.  Mostly when you are within 4 km of another BB, because the secondaries are programmed to shoot at center of mass.  This means if they are extremely accurate, most of them are going to hit the belt armor and just bounce off.  If they were a bit less accurate, some of the wild shots will stray into the superstructure instead.  But at ranges of 5 km or greater, I don't think this is an issue.

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I don't have Mass, but I just got Georgia out of the arsenal a couple days ago. With the built in buff that Mass and GA get, I think MFCS is unneeded, for multiple reasons.

1: It's 4 points you can put towards Fire Prevention or other durability skills

2: With 11.3km range and mortar like shell arcs, you can engage targets on each side. I had a GA game yesterday where I was brawling another BB against an island, after he sank my secondaries kept popping away and I was like "wth am I shooting at???" The answer was an Schors 10km and two islands over, a ship I wasn't even aware of, but dropped about 10k combined damage on.

3: At closer ranges with MFCS, you just start slamming shells into the targets belt armor. I noticed this first with Konig Albert, back when AP secondaries were still a thing, you could just eviscerate a light cruiser with secondary cit hits when they got close. Good for AP, but not so good for small diameter HE.

4: It's a premium, and is it really worth building a captain JUST for that ship? My 19pt John Doe has a survivability build with BFT and AFT (Leftover AA spec build that I haven't changed until they offer a free reset and decide what skills are going to actually do). It doesn't do nearly the direct damage that a full secondary spec with IFHE and MFCS would, but I can keep those guns in the fight longer, use both sides at once, and tax the hell out of the red teams repair parties.

 

Matt

 

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13 minutes ago, zubalkabir said:

Mostly when you are within 4 km of another BB, because the secondaries are programmed to shoot at center of mass.  This means if they are extremely accurate, most of them are going to hit the belt armor and just bounce off.

That's good information to have. Thank you.

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The skill needs to be changed to increase accuracy --- NO manual input needed.  The manual requirement makes it worthless IMO since it halves the number of guns that could fire at other ships.  Slightly less accurate while still auto would be preferential.

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3 minutes ago, NoSoMo said:

The skill needs to be changed to increase accuracy --- NO manual input needed.  The manual requirement makes it worthless IMO since it halves the number of guns that could fire at other ships.  Slightly less accurate while still auto would be preferential.

Kind of agree here. I find being forced to ctrl-click for them to even work is irritating as hell.

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In my game just now I got my rudder jammed so was just spinning around shooting at everything. I think that the enemy thought I'd planned the maneuver but it really was something like this:

giphy.gif

image.thumb.png.77f47656855e37a21d8e7122355b41a7.png

I got quite a few hits but didn't do as much damage per hit as in my first IFHE-only game. Going to collect more data.

 

Edited by Snargfargle

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IIRC, Massy's Secondaries have an improved dispersion, compared to other Secondaries on other BB's. Thus, the captain skill Manual Sec may not be so mandatory. :fish_book:

I also heard that Georgia's Secondaries also enjoy the same kind of improved dispersion. :fish_book:

For ships like German BB's, however, it's a different story, AFAIK. :Smile_hiding:

Edited by Blorgh2017

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I haven't ran manual control since I watched my Massachusetts secondaries firing from both sides as I engaged another battleship in front.

The secondaries finished both ships off.

Edited by Double_Doody

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6 minutes ago, NoSoMo said:

The skill needs to be changed to increase accuracy --- NO manual input needed.  The manual requirement makes it worthless IMO since it halves the number of guns that could fire at other ships.  Slightly less accurate while still auto would be preferential.

I feel like changing the skill so that it can be called "improved secondarys" or something like that. Make it so the dispersion is reduced by 40% and the reload is reduced by 5% for all secondarys. Secondarys can still fire on both sides, but improved dispersion and reload would make it stronger. Would make it far more useful for secondary builds, and more viable as a 4 point skill in general.

Edited by MuricanClassBattleship
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I made an interesting build for my Georgia by skipping a lot of key secondary skills. I didn't take manual secondaries, nor did I take AFT. Why is this? Simple: without manual, the extra range is nearly useless. Likewise, I didn't take IFHE, as it's rarely useful against anything but cruisers, as the guns will not often pen a BB either way, but instead took BFT, increased fire chance, and AR. Taking this combo into random, even if I built it for co-op, I charged into a cap at speed boost speed mid-game that had 3 DDs and a Belfast, as there was no escaping my fate by that point, and the smoke was getting close.

By the end of that I had 2 CQEs and forced the Belfast to hide! XD

Edited by Shoggoth_pinup

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For the Mass, Georgia, Bismarck and GK full secondaries can be a blast.  Believe me three or four hundred secondary hits can do a lot of damage.

1751450942_WorldofWarships7_9_20199_25_10AM.thumb.png.aaea56115d287963b58168f44cc23879.png

Here is a battle from my Bismarck. I have similar battles I my Mass and Georgia.

So yeah, it's worth it...

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For killing DDs...and actually hitting stuff at 10km...yes it is absolutely well worth the points. Games with 400+ secondary hits are fairly common. It just requires more awareness.

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Yes, you do need it.  Old pics but you get the point:

 

shot-18.10.13_21.22.46-0579.jpg

 

shot-19.02.14_13.59.03-0566.jpg

 

shot-19.03.02_08.46.09-0299.jpg

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Take two otherwise identical ships, one with MFCS and the other without. Close to secondary range and let the gunners have at it. The ship with MFCS will wreck the one without.

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