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Jimmybobcornflake

Thoughts on Research Bureau

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So I have been giving this a lot of thought to the whole research bureau and although for the most part I am completely against it. 
I don't see WG changing it. At-least, they aren't listening. 

I think, in order to get more people on-board with this and to make it more fair. they NEED to go back to what they originally said and make it 2 tier 10's in order to qualify to reset a line.

My reason for this is I am a casual player. I have limited time. I watch a lot of streamers when I just want to relax from a stressful day. I've watched many play the Colbert. It's a ship I really need ( want too! ) to have in my port. Unfortunately, the original plan of 2 tier 10's has been changed to 5 tier 10's and the result of this makes it so I can't participate because I only have 2 tier 10 ships ( République and Henry IV )

So, I have to grind out 3 more tier 10's that I don't want.. and then grind out 3 more tier 10s in 3 seasons to get the Colbert. That should take me roughly 1.5-2 years at the rate I play.

This is disgusting. There is no way I will have the Colbert. Even if I sleep on this and decide I want to regrind through hell.. I can't even START.

WG needs to lower the requirement back to 2, or offer other methods of obtaining this ship. ( Future ships afterwards, ie; Ohio )

The major gripe of "regrinding" of lines will still exist. I am very against that.  WG won't throw this away. however.. if WG opens up other opportunities to obtaining these rewards AND lowers the requirement to enter.. I can see that being far more popular and positive for the game. 

 

Edited by Jimmybobcornflake
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I agree it is a bit over the top.  Honestly though the people that have the time for this, have at it.  I have zero intentions at this time to partake in this obvious money grab.  I will play Smolensk instead.

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The move to five lines was to ensure they would actually spend some time in the lower tiers. With a 19 point captain and a fully outfitted ship with premium time and camouflage you can grind through a line pretty fast by just upgrading the minimum items.

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requiring 2 x tier 10, or 5 x tier 10, is excessive.

regrinding any tech tree, however many times, is excessive. 

the entire RB proposal is abusive, and wrong headed.

(nobody is actually expected to "grind" the tech trees; those that reset will predominantly sink their available free xp to minmize the grind, run their gluts of flags and special camos to speed up the rest, and spend cash to convert elite ship xp to free xp when they lose patience.)

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7 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

The move to five lines was to ensure they would actually spend some time in the lower tiers. With a 19 point captain and a fully outfitted ship with premium time and camouflage you can grind through a line pretty fast by just upgrading the minimum items.

I don't think you understand what I am saying friend. In order to participate in the Research Bureau, I need to have 5 tier 10s. ( ie; Montana, Midway , Shimikaze, Henry IV, Republique etc ) but when it was announced initially, you only needed to have 2 tier 10 ships. 

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As long as the reward ships are balanced, I think it's fine. It's entirely optional.

But when the reward ships are turning out to be overtuned pieces of sh*t, now we are having a problem.

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7 minutes ago, Jimmybobcornflake said:

I don't think you understand what I am saying friend. In order to participate in the Research Bureau, I need to have 5 tier 10s. ( ie; Montana, Midway , Shimikaze, Henry IV, Republique etc ) but when it was announced initially, you only needed to have 2 tier 10 ships. 

The NTC was two lines but the RB was five at least from when it went up on the PT if not from the beginning.

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11 minutes ago, pikohan said:

But when the reward ships are turning out to be overtuned pieces of sh*t,

well this is inevitable. People won't reset and regrind (or sink their free xp) 5 x a tech tree for anything less.
Which is one major reason, (among several) that the RB/NTC concept, is wrongheaded, and harmful to the game's health.

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35 minutes ago, Jimmybobcornflake said:

So I have been giving this a lot of thought to the whole research bureau and although for the most part I am completely against it. 
I don't see WG changing it. At-least, they aren't listening. 

I think, in order to get more people on-board with this and to make it more fair. they NEED to go back to what they originally said and make it 2 tier 10's in order to qualify to reset a line.

My reason for this is I am a casual player. I have limited time.  ...

I wasn't happy with the 10K RP reward bar being raised from 2 to 5 Tier Xs either. However, as you say, you are a casual player with limited time to play (and hence you are unlikely to be able to grind an additional 3 lines) then that means you are also unlikely to complete the necessary re-grinding to get a research point reward ship (even more out of reach for you than 3 more Tier Xs).

I don't mind the grind (I take it slow, typically play for first win for XP bonus) and play lots of ships that I enjoy playing.  I managed to finish my 5th Tier X grind (Zao - 148K XP) in two days of play (almost exclusively playing Ibuki) by mounting EVERY XP flag I had with combined XP camouflage.  I certainly don't see myself doing this over and over again (resetting the line and re-grinding) just to get some perceived OP reward ship. Nor do I see spending real dollars to convert the elite ship XP I have to sufficient Free XP (to avoid the grinds).

I tend to keep my ships throughout the tech tree and simply just play them when I feel like it (so, if WG really wants to encourage players to play outside of Tier X they really don't have to do anything for me as that's my normal play behavior).

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You want the reward you do the requirements. It works like that with everything. I want a couple premiums, but don’t want to pay for them, but I’m not whining on the forums. You don’t want to fulfill the requirements you don’t get the ship.

I want Ohio, but not badly enough to regrind lines. So I don’t get it, oh well, moving on. This is real life, we don’t get everything we want.

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@Jimmybobcornflake If you want the rewards then meet the requirements needed just as everyone else has to do in every other event/mission/campaign.

Also if you didn't participate in the 8.7 Public Test you don't know what you are talking about.

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15 minutes ago, Jimmybobcornflake said:

I don't think you understand what I am saying friend. In order to participate in the Research Bureau, I need to have 5 tier 10s. ( ie; Montana, Midway , Shimikaze, Henry IV, Republique etc ) but when it was announced initially, you only needed to have 2 tier 10 ships. 

No, you have it wrong.  To get a 10,000 RP reward at the patch release you would have to have now 5 tier Xs (up from 2 on PTS).  The article states:

If you have at least five Tier X ships researched, you will gain access to the Research Bureau, along with a one-time reward of fa69ed4c-c015-11e9-86c9-d89d6715223c_10010,000 Research Points and the option to reset any of the researched branches of ships.

You would only need ONE Tier X to participate in Research Bureau so that you could reset that branch. 

The RB (in the Armory) becomes active as soon as you get research points, which you would earn on your first re-grind ship victory (tier 6+).  The 10,000 RP reward simply means those players with more Tier Xs have slightly less re-grinds to do. Same with the first 2x RP bonus, which you have a 3 month season to complete the regrind over (and if you don't finish that one ship line the unfinished bonuses are supposed to be captured on that line so you could reset a different line and get the 2x bonus on that line in the following season).  As long as you are willing to wait (i.e., take more than 6 months), you would only have to reset and re-grind completely 3 times (plus one partial) - 10,000 (5  or more Tier Xs) + 2x 10,000 (season 1) + 2x 10,000 (season 2) + 7,000 (remainder) to get the 57,000 RPs for the Colbert (NOTE: cost of Ohio not yet announced).

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27 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

The move to five lines was to ensure they would actually spend some time in the lower tiers. With a 19 point captain and a fully outfitted ship with premium time and camouflage you can grind through a line pretty fast by just upgrading the minimum items.

Eh, I can’t sit there and play the same ship, over and over, and over.  So grinding through a line takes me a little longer because I like to play my premiums, DD’s, BB’s and Cruisers often.  I’ve been on the Izumo for a week and I’ve only researched the B Hull.  It’ll take me quite some time to get the Yamato.

my point is, even playing every single day, it’s time consuming to an average player.  Hours and hours.  In 3 months, I may get one line done? So the 5 tree regrind will take me forever. For what? A cancer ship that spews HE or a Montana that’s slower but has some tricks?

Unless they offer these ships for money elsewhere or another resource this will turn people away, including myself, who spends a good chunk of time and money on this game.  2 lines would be worth it, but 5 is outrageous.

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1 minute ago, BarneyStyle said:

Eh, I can’t sit there and play the same ship, over and over, and over.  So grinding through a line takes me a little longer because I like to play my premiums, DD’s, BB’s and Cruisers often.  I’ve been on the Izumo for a week and I’ve only researched the B Hull.  It’ll take me quite some time to get the Yamato.

my point is, even playing every single day, it’s time consuming to an average player.  Hours and hours.  In 3 months, I may get one line done? So the 5 tree regrind will take me forever. For what? A cancer ship that spews HE or a Montana that’s slower but has some tricks?

Unless they offer these ships for money elsewhere or another resource this will turn people away, including myself, who spends a good chunk of time and money on this game.  2 lines would be worth it, but 5 is outrageous.

I am with you on that, I rarely play the same ship after getting the first win.

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Honestly,  unless it's changed to a system that you can regrind without having to give up your current ships,  WG can keep this whole thing.  Aside from having to lose access to the ships you already grinded to, a lot of people play more casual so setting a time limit on the regrinding is also a bad move imo.

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1 minute ago, BarneyStyle said:

Eh, I can’t sit there and play the same ship, over and over, and over.  So grinding through a line takes me a little longer because I like to play my premiums, DD’s, BB’s and Cruisers often. ...

my point is, even playing every single day, it’s time consuming to an average player.  Hours and hours.  In 3 months, I may get one line done? So the 5 tree regrind will take me forever.

This is REALLY no different than wanting a (1,000,000) FREE XP ship and it taking months to accumulate.  These RB ships have no stated expiration, so if you take a year to do the re-grind then what's wrong with that?  You set your own pace to get the stated reward.

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9 minutes ago, dashtardly said:

No, you have it wrong.  To get a 10,000 RP reward at the patch release you would have to have now 5 tier Xs (up from 2 on PTS).  The article states:

If you have at least five Tier X ships researched, you will gain access to the Research Bureau, along with a one-time reward of fa69ed4c-c015-11e9-86c9-d89d6715223c_10010,000 Research Points and the option to reset any of the researched branches of ships.

You would only need ONE Tier X to participate in Research Bureau so that you could reset that branch. 

The RB (in the Armory) becomes active as soon as you get research points, which you would earn on your first re-grind ship victory (tier 6+).  The 10,000 RP reward simply means those players with more Tier Xs have slightly less re-grinds to do. Same with the first 2x RP bonus, which you have a 3 month season to complete the regrind over (and if you don't finish that one ship line the unfinished bonuses are supposed to be captured on that line so you could reset a different line and get the 2x bonus on that line in the following season).  As long as you are willing to wait (i.e., take more than 6 months), you would only have to reset and re-grind completely 3 times (plus one partial) - 10,000 (5  or more Tier Xs) + 2x 10,000 (season 1) + 2x 10,000 (season 2) + 7,000 (remainder) to get the 57,000 RPs for the Colbert (NOTE: cost of Ohio not yet announced).

I am not talking about the reward. I am talking about being able to reset a branch and start the grind. As you have highlighted in red, if you have at least 5... FIVE.. Tier X ships researched, you will gain access to the Research Bureau. I only have TWO. I can't start this.  Originally, the requirement was TWO, now it was changed to FIVE. 

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I say just play for fun and to shoot things first. The rest is a nice bonus for your work. Just relax and play the game. I got a nice georgia and musashi just for having fun playing.

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1 minute ago, Jimmybobcornflake said:

I am not talking about the reward. I am talking about being able to reset a branch and start the grind. As you have highlighted in red, if you have at least 5... FIVE.. Tier X ships researched, you will gain access to the Research Bureau. I only have TWO. I can't start this.  Originally, the requirement was TWO, now it was changed to FIVE. 

question : even if access to the RB were conditional on having only 2 x tier 10 ships researched, would you be seriously interested in resetting them multiple times to regrind, and earn the RB token currency, in order to obtain one of the reward ships?

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8 minutes ago, Sanndor said:

Honestly,  unless it's changed to a system that you can regrind without having to give up your current ships,  WG can keep this whole thing.  Aside from having to lose access to the ships you already grinded to, a lot of people play more casual so setting a time limit on the regrinding is also a bad move imo.

Yeah, a series of missions requiring certain tiers to accomplish that will take a long time to get to the end would have been better. However I feel that a series of daily missions for the three tier groups, 1 - 4, 5 - 7, & 8 - 10 with an additional reward for finishing all three groups would have done a better job of getting people out of the top tiers.

There is no time limit but there are seasons that are meant to slow down the speed that people get back to tier 10.

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1 minute ago, LoveBote said:

question : even if access to the RB were conditional on having only 2 x tier 10 ships researched, would you be seriously interested in resetting them multiple times to regrind, and earn the RB token currency, in order to obtain one of the reward ships?

Absolutely I will. The carrot on the end of the stick is too damn tasty not to imo. 

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I don`t meet the requirements and probably would not even if I did because it takes way to much time in my opinion.

I prefer researching a new ship line than grinding though the same one again and the only commander I am close to get to 19 points is a french bb commander anyways :/

The Colbert seems to be a nice ship but I don`t feel it would be worth putting so much time into(Even if I met the requirements).

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4 minutes ago, Jimmybobcornflake said:

I am not talking about the reward. I am talking about being able to reset a branch and start the grind. As you have highlighted in red, if you have at least 5... FIVE.. Tier X ships researched, you will gain access to the Research Bureau. I only have TWO. I can't start this.  Originally, the requirement was TWO, now it was changed to FIVE. 

Hmm.  I did the PTS (and had 4 Tier X at the time) but when I was reading the PTS notes it sounded as though the RB tab in the Armory was active only after you got RPs and you got RPs immediately for having at least 2 Tier X.  However, after re-reading the article and after checking @Femennenly post about the Research Bureau, where she also says it clearer

How does it work?

  • The Research Bureau is available to players who have reached Tier X on 5 separate lines.
  • When a player has reached their fifth Tier X, they will see an option to restart a line from the Tech Tree Tab:

I agree you are correct on needing 5 Tier Xs to be able to reset and participate in acquiring research points.

I guess the question you'd have to ask yourself (which is maybe why they raised the threshold from 2 to 5) - would you enjoy your game time/play by re-grinding the same ship line over and over again when (with only 2 Tier Xs) you may not have really experienced all of the game play diversity available?  Also, with 5 lines (and if I choose to reset just one line) I still have multiple tier Xs to play and I won't (maybe) regret my decision to do the reset (if I'm only able to play a single Tier X for whatever long time period it takes me to re-grind the reset Tier X).

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If its excessive it's going to be for the Clan Wars and Competitive players..    It is optional,  but if the reward ships become meta breaking then that really pushes the envelope IMO.    We'll see.. I for one do not have any doubt that these ships are going to push that line.  We all remember where this started in terms of reward....  this just feels to me like a stealthier way to push the same buttons.   I'd say if these ships do turn out to be requirements for competitive play,  WG is risking a big push back from some long time veterans.     

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