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Lert

(Some of) the upcoming submarines (WIP!)

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So, someone posted this on youtube:

This is datamined info! Everything in here is subject to change! Don't take anything in this video as unchanging gospel!

That said, here are some things I found interesting ...

Although my opinion on subs in this game is well known and hasn't changed with the announcement, I can find peace with the fact that they are coming and will look forward to seeing how they implement them. Some interesting things from this video:

  • Dual T10s for US and Germany? Gato and Balao for the US, a Type XXI and Type XXVIW for the Germans. Dual T8s for the Russians? What are they planning?
  • Only T6, T8 and T10 ones? Are they going to reveal uneven tiered ones later, or are they going the CV route and only doing even tiers at first?
  • I'ma going to have to get me a Type VII (U-69 at T6) and a Type XXI (U-2501 at T10), always loved these botes - Type VII for the movie Das Boot and Type XXI because there's one afloat and in good condition: U-2540, a beauty
  • They all seem to be about 50% faster than they were historically. This was inevitable I think, to make them viable to begin with

The models are spot on and beautiful.

I'm not going to draw conclusions on the various stats. It's very likely that they're all going to change anyways. The stats here are just preliminary placeholders, a first stab at making them work. The fine tuning has yet to even begin.

Finally, once again ...

This is datamined info! Everything in here is subject to change! Don't take anything in this video as unchanging gospel!

 

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4 minutes ago, Lert said:
  • They all seem to be about 50% faster than they were historically. This was inevitable I think, to make them viable to begin with

Which is a strong indication that they'll be nothing like real subs other than the submerging part, and violate the framework of how ships have been translated into the game.

 

 

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1 minute ago, KilljoyCutter said:

Which is a strong indication that they'll be nothing like real subs other than the submerging part, and violate the framework of how ships have been translated into the game.

 

 

come on man, literally EVERY ship in this game has something that make them a-historical, BBs being extremely accurate, DDs having unlimited torps, CVs having planes that magically regenerate, but a submarine being faster than it was IRL is what breaks it for you?

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2 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

Which is a strong indication that they'll be nothing like real subs other than the submerging part, and violate the framework of how ships have been translated into the game.

Which touches on my main reasons for always having been against subs to begin with.

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1 minute ago, tcbaker777 said:

come on man, literally EVERY ship in this game has something that make them a-historical, BBs being extremely accurate, DDs having unlimited torps, CVs having planes that magically regenerate, but a submarine being faster than it was IRL is what breaks it for you?

It's a difference of scale. Yes, every shp has gameplay compromises. But not on the scale of a 50% over something that every other class keeps historical - with some very rare singular exceptions.

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Just now, tcbaker777 said:

come on man, literally EVERY ship in this game has something that make them a-historical, BBs being extremely accurate, DDs having unlimited torps, CVs having planes that magically regenerate, but a submarine being faster than it was IRL is what breaks it for you?

Name for me a single ship in the game with 50% to 100% extra speed, or far more armor, or etc?   Compare the Halloween subs to real subs of the WW1/WW2 era, and tell me that's really in the same framework as the rest of WOWS.

All ships are "too accurate", but that's part of the compression of gameplay so it doesn't take hours for a single battle. 

Infinite torpedoes... I'm still 50/50 on how I feel about that.

 

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2 minutes ago, Lert said:

Which touches on my main reasons for always having been against subs to begin with.

Same here -- WG can't make them work and make them fit at the same time, and WG can't make them fun to play and fun to play against at the same time... because those are both impossible.

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1 minute ago, KilljoyCutter said:

Name for me a single ship in the game with 50% to 100% extra speed

Was it Normandie or Lyon that got a huge speed buff compared to design specs?

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4 minutes ago, tcbaker777 said:

come on man, literally EVERY ship in this game has something that make them a-historical, BBs being extremely accurate, DDs having unlimited torps, CVs having planes that magically regenerate, but a submarine being faster than it was IRL is what breaks it for you?

Where is my 28-30 knot Colorado or New Mexico?

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We'll have to see what the submerged speeds are, but the surface speeds are ridiculous.

The turning circles are pretty spicy, surface detections are very good, down to 4.8km or better for a couple, assuming they can take CE and CSM1. 

Otherwise there's very little to go on. Some of the tiering is rather questionable.

Even tiers is a good idea, leaves some tiers sub-free by default. Concentrates players in limited matchmaking which may be an initial problem. It does suggest though that as with carriers splitting up enough tiers to make them worthwhile steps is hard. To be honest there's little practical difference between a Type VII and Type IX U-boat compared to the corresponding difference New Mexico-North Carolina or Icarus-Lightning or Nurnberg-Hipper.

That does by itself suggest some serious lack of depth to submarine game space.

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3 minutes ago, puxflacet said:

they also have speed between 25 - 31 knots...as WW2 subs should have, ofc

Top speed for a late war WWII sub is about 20-24 knots surfaced, and 8 to 10 submerged. These's a few faster, but not many, and those had problems.

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16 minutes ago, Lert said:

Was it Normandie or Lyon that got a huge speed buff compared to design specs?

but WG basically redesigned Normandie so that she can reach that speed (made her longer that the actual design). But at least they made the effort to make the model look like she could reach the in-game speed...but speed boosts are completelly different story - there was no 50 knots WW2 vessel (even today)

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1 minute ago, Lert said:

Was it Normandie or Lyon that got a huge speed buff compared to design specs?

I think both, but look at what year they're from vs what tier they're in and against which ships on other nations' lines.  See also, the guns.

They're an example of the problem at hand. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Lert said:

Was it Normandie or Lyon that got a huge speed buff compared to design specs?

 Bayern is 4 knots too fast, or about 20%.

Normandie is 8.5 knots too fast, or about 40%

Lyon is 6 knots too fast, or about 30%.

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12 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

Name for me a single ship in the game with 50% to 100% extra speed, or far more armor, or etc?   Compare the Halloween subs to real subs of the WW1/WW2 era, and tell me that's really in the same framework as the rest of WOWS.

All ships are "too accurate", but that's part of the compression of gameplay so it doesn't take hours for a single battle. 

Infinite torpedoes... I'm still 50/50 on how I feel about that.

 

The entire USSR navy... 

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I have always supported the idea of subs, but now they are announced, cannot help but feel some trepidation. Introducing subs late on in the games content rollout/development has echoes of Navyfield. Though Weegees are doubtless aware of this, and hopefully have drawn the appropriate lessons. As for the shown stats, I am skeptical and would not take them too seriously. That being said, what with time and volume compression in WOWS, fantasy stats left right and centre, 50% of ships which would turn turtle in the slightest breeze, a good half being teenage bedroom fantasy "whatifs", I am not expecting Sub stats to be any less "historical" than those of any other ship currently in game.

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The even tier ordeal would be a huge turnoff for me. It would almost seem like "less variation" is equal to "less effort". If you wanted a 5 tier progression system, imo that is something that should have been tested and viewed at the games creation, not something that comes along with new additions. 

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I think this is the same boost as subs got during the event? +8 knots on most ships. Except U-4501, which is 21 knots for... some reason, despite being the fastest boat here. Maybe it is faster submerged? Personally I still don't like speed boosting subs given there's plenty of later faster subs, but whatever.

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Just now, LoveBote said:

I have always supported the idea of subs, but now they are announced, cannot help but feel some trepidation. Introducing subs late on in the games content rollout/development has echoes of Navyfield. Though Weegees are doubtless aware of this, and hopefully have drawn the appropriate lessons. As for the shown stats, I am skeptical and would not take them too seriously. That being said, what with time and volume compression in WOWS, fantasy stats left right and centre, 50% of ships which would turn turtle in the slightest breeze, a good half being teenage bedroom fantasy "whatifs", I am not expecting Sub stats to be any less "historical" than those of any other ship currently in game.

All I can hope is that they don’t make the Uboats suck, they didn’t suck historically so they shouldn’t suck in game. Buuuuuut it is the KM. the red headed stepchild of WG. 

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22 minutes ago, RumpledSteelskins said:

I think this should be the tier 10.

72CD1595-7AAD-4E9A-BAC2-CFEE53ADDD15.jpeg

True person of culture.

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I have a bigger issue if WG makes the subs fast enough to render destroyers obsolete. High speed, invisible, and probably invulnerable if everyone dumps DD for subs. Just trading smoke for submerging.

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