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Bill_Halsey

Okay..explain this to me

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Why is it that you have torp boat drivers who absolutely refuse to fire the guns even if they are already inside 5 km engagement range? I 've seen it happen twice tonite. Once against a Yugumo and the other against a shima. I was driving a Mogador. Is there some union rule I'm not aware of?

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2 minutes ago, Bill_Halsey said:

Why is it that you have torp boat drivers who absolutely refuse to fire the guns even if they are already inside 5 km engagement range? I 've seen it happen twice tonite. Once against a Yugumo and the other against a shima. I was driving a Mogador. Is there some union rule I'm not aware of?

It's most likely that the Yugumo and Shima were trying to disengage and go undetected. Your spotting range increases when you fire your guns.

Edited by Neko_Ship_Akashi
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report them in a support ticket for not doing/playing exactly as you want them to.

Petty gripe

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Like Neko says, they are trying to disengage. 

Sometimes they are just bad or are very bad at reading the situation. 

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Just now, Neko_Ship_Akashi said:

It's most likely that the Yugumo and Shima were trying to disengage and go undetected. Your spotting range increases when you fire your guns.

That only helps if they're outside their detection and range and they can detect me. Mogador has a base speed of 45.7 knots, There's no way you can outrun a Mogador, even with engine boost. Outrunning a Mogador with engine boost engaged? lol.

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1 minute ago, Bill_Halsey said:

That only helps if they're outside their detection and range and they can detect me. Mogador has a base speed of 45.7 knots, There's no way you can outrun a Mogador, even with engine boost. Outrunning a Mogador with engine boost engaged? lol.

Did they smoke up? Because smoking up can let them disengage and find their friends. If they didn't smoke then they were likely just being stupid.

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5 minutes ago, CAPTMUDDXX said:

report them in a support ticket for not doing/playing exactly as you want them to.

Petty gripe

I don't mind them playing dumb. I am curious is why they're playing dumb.

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7 minutes ago, Bill_Halsey said:

Is there some union rule I'm not aware of?

Once upon a time there was a Japanese DD called the Mutsuki, whose gun armament sucked. It sucked harder than deep space when your airlock door gives way. And because of this suckage, and the suckage of some other Japanese destroyer guns, the legend grew that Japanese destroyer guns are so utterly effing useless that they must never under any circumstances be fired.

This knowledge spread across YouTube and infected the minds of countless naive potatoes, who believe it to this day and who consequently will not engage with guns even if the last enemy ship is on 1 HP, sitting 2km away doing nothing.

 

The above is an exaggeration, of course, but there is a grain of truth to it.

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13 minutes ago, Bill_Halsey said:

Why is it that you have torp boat drivers who absolutely refuse to fire the guns even if they are already inside 5 km engagement range? I 've seen it happen twice tonite. Once against a Yugumo and the other against a shima. I was driving a Mogador. Is there some union rule I'm not aware of?

 

10 minutes ago, Neko_Ship_Akashi said:

It's most likely that the Yugumo and Shima were trying to disengage and go undetected. Your spotting range increases when you fire your guns.

I have seen what Bill saw and they were under fire where firing the guns was not going to alert the enemy to their presence.

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1 minute ago, Neko_Ship_Akashi said:

Did they smoke up? Because smoking up can let them disengage and find their friends. If they didn't smoke then they were likely just being stupid.

Yugumo smoked up and sat there. Shima bolted out of his smoke once I fired torps into his smoke. In both cases, they were Isolated. I use RPF on the Mogador so I know where to point the bow

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2 minutes ago, Bill_Halsey said:

That only helps if they're outside their detection and range and they can detect me. Mogador has a base speed of 45.7 knots, There's no way you can outrun a Mogador, even with engine boost. Outrunning a Mogador with engine boost engaged? lol.

The root cause is bad reading of the situation. Firing guns and getting everyone to shoot at you is not a good idea either...

Once spotted, all a torp DD can do is run... Guns are decent in high tiers, but they're not going to out gun anyone...

It happens to me too. I read the map wrong, next thing I know I have 4 guns shooting at me.. The must obvious course of action is run to a friendly cruiser and regroup... Sometimes, it dos not end well.

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have seen it too, nobody within 15km but dd and target but he's doing circles and zigzag waiting for torp reload

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12 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

 

I have seen what Bill saw and they were under fire where firing the guns was not going to alert the enemy to their presence.

True, but it's alot harder to try and disengage if your shooting. 

 

12 minutes ago, Bill_Halsey said:

Yugumo smoked up and sat there. Shima bolted out of his smoke once I fired torps into his smoke. In both cases, they were Isolated. I use RPF on the Mogador so I know where to point the bow

Then they were being plain stupid, in a torpedo boat you should always have an exit strategy. 

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I have also seen this when only a couple of hits from the DD's guns would have killed the target spotting them. The general rule in torpedo boats is to not fire your guns. However, it is not written in stone and there are times to use them.

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Yug has excellent guns. Finished a lot of ships with them. 

Most likely as others thought, they wanted to disengage and didn't want to be spotted once they went undetected. They might have thought you wouldn't follow since friendlies were around....

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You’d be surprised how many times that happens in the Mog. I feel what they’re trying to do is line up torps because they are flustered by the ambush. Mog has the distinct ability to disengage or engage at will which can surprise DD captains that are used to being the fastest ship on the map. 

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I've seen this too many times. IJN DD jumped at close range by low HP gunboat DD. The gunboat is dead in one or two salvoes, and immediately drops torps and starts shooting preparing to die. The IJN DD turns broadside, and tries to line up his torps. Despite the fact that a couple salvoes would finish the job, he insists on using torps. This usually ends one of two ways. The IJN eats torps and dies because he turned broadside on to get his torps off, or he gets his torps off, starts getting lit up by the gunboat, has to dodge the incoming torps, further preventing him from getting the guns on target, and then gets one salvo off as the gunboat finishes him off. Infuriating to see. Why is your first reaction at close range to turn broadside to dump torps? The other guy knows they're coming, can dodge them, and you have now made yourself an easy target for his torps!

I can't recall ever seeing the IJN boat sink the other guy in this situation with torps. USE. YOUR. GUNS. Shima for example actually has pretty good guns, I've actually had a couple good shima drivers give me a hard time while firing from smoke. Maybe if people used the guns there wouldn't be so many complaints about how bad the IJN DDs are.

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1 hour ago, Bill_Halsey said:

Why is it that you have torp boat drivers who absolutely refuse to fire the guns even if they are already inside 5 km engagement range? I 've seen it happen twice tonite. Once against a Yugumo and the other against a shima. I was driving a Mogador. Is there some union rule I'm not aware of?

try playing IJN line and come back and talk. 

IJN has nerfed to the hilt guns and their torps are visible from orbit. IJN hate code all the way. 

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6 minutes ago, Skyfaller said:

try playing IJN line and come back and talk. 

IJN has nerfed to the hilt guns and their torps are visible from orbit. IJN hate code all the way. 

Which line? The 100mm guns has been buffed to 1/4 pen, IIRC. Nothing wrong with the IJN gunboat line.  Been playing the Kita for ranked. I've grinded out the IJN torp boat line in the past. Also take out the Asashio for a spin every once in a while.  Look at my stats and see if I'm lying.

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15 minutes ago, Bill_Halsey said:

Which line? The 100mm guns has been buffed to 1/4 pen, IIRC. Nothing wrong with the IJN gunboat line.  Been playing the Kita for ranked. I've grinded out the IJN torp boat line in the past. Also take out the Asashio for a spin every once in a while.  Look at my stats and see if I'm lying.

IJN torp line. The one where the torps are nerfed and the guns are nerfed. A stock gearing out-torp performs a fully torp-spec'd shimakaze in every stat possible except number of tubes... which miss like crazy because even the 8km torps have higher visibility than gearing's 16km torps and give targets more reaction time than gearing's. 

Asashio is a perfect example of an IJN torp DD done almost right. Even with its also-excessively penalized DW torps (since ONLY IJN ships must be penalized in their national flavor weapon when using gear from another nation... you hardly see chinese DDs suffering from guns or torps or anything for that matter ...not even premiums eh?)  it does a better job of being a shima than a shima in tier 10 battles. 

The fact that in tier 10 asashio can pull over 150k damage firing 20km torps that only hit BBs and CVs while Shimakaze 20km is nerfed to such garbage that the torp-centric ship of the torp-centric nation which historically had the best torpedo of the war from BEFORE the war started.... is forced to use torps of shorter range and still visible from significantly farther away than gearing (a gunboat) while suffering horrendous penalties to HP, turret rotation and ROF JUST to be somewhat functional... tells you all you need to know. 

People can do great in a shima yes. Point is they would do hundreds of times better in a STOCK Gearing with a 10pnt captain and not suffer all the above mentioned IJN-dev-hate penalties for it. Better torp range, better torp hit chances and insanely better guns, smoke and for all purposes , the same damn stealth.  

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if you are in a IJN torp boat against a gun boat, in a 1v1 situation, then it very much logical to try to disengage as fast as possible... Unless that gunboat was low health, enough for slow load IJN torp dds to kill it with gun, its best to pull out. 

Edited by Nagato_Kai__Ni

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Not sure about higher IJN tiers, but some of the DDs I've played have terrible turret rotation speed, and it's almost impossible to get a shot off on target if you're juking and jiving to keep from getting shot yourself, especially if the enemy is very close to you. Noticed it mostly in Pan-Asia ships, dunno about high tier IJN DDs. I haven't been able to get shots off before because of this.

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3 hours ago, Bill_Halsey said:

Why is it that you have torp boat drivers who absolutely refuse to fire the guns even if they are already inside 5 km engagement range? I 've seen it happen twice tonite. Once against a Yugumo and the other against a shima. I was driving a Mogador. Is there some union rule I'm not aware of?

Like Col Potter says.  Turret rotation may have something to do with it.  Catch an IJN DD with his turrets facing the wrong way and it is going to be a month of Sundays before he can even attempt to shoot back.  In this situation, it isn't uncommon to get melted before you can even return fire if you're so inclined.  Given your DDs speed, you may have ambushed them from an unexpected direction and they were helpless.

Even when the barrels finally point the correct direction, they struggle to keep up with violent ship maneuvering.

Even with those limitations though, the guns on the torp IJN DDs can be very effective if the Captain has the moxy to pull the trigger.  I have roughly the same number of gun kills as torp kills in several IJN DDs.  They can also kite effectively in the right situations.

The inclination to shoot torps first and guns second isn't limited to IJN DDs.  It happens all too often with all DDs.

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IJN guns are deadly since the HE unerf. They lack DPM but 3-4k per salvo against a DD is very strong.

 

I pick a lot of gunfight in my Shima against other T10 DD and can get some good gun damage to help my team shooting them down. If people are trying to disengage from the fight then it's fair to hold your fire but when you're being radared or rushed by faster DD, there's not point holding your fire.

 

I saw so many IJN DD just turn broadside to torps instead of using their guns to help me shoot down another DD / finish off a 5% DD and this just pisses me off. People still have the stigma about IJN DD gun having cruiser turret traverse and low DPM that it isn't worth using them. Not only these people are throwing away the game but they're also throwing away their own reward.

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