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KaptainKaybe

Quarter Pen on German DD HE?

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So we all know that German DD HE is pretty pathetic. At only 1500 alpha, even IJN torpedo boats pose a challenge. Their Hydro was fantastic back when the boats first came out, but since that time, Radar became a thing and in general, the cap bullying aspect of German DDs is just not that great anymore.

Also, since the flooding changes, German DDs took a HUGE HUGE nerf. Used to be the very low torp damage at high tiers was greatly compensated by fast reload time, allowing these DDs to cause permanent floods that would eventually sink any battleship. But now, flooding is basically just slightly stronger than fire which ended up being a huge damage hit for these DDs. Now, the DDs that are feared the most are those who's torps have big damage. 14400 damage is solid at tier 7. Not at tier 10.

Now if they wish to keep their balance the same as it is now for dealing with other DDs, then logically, the best buff for these ships would be to give their HE the 1/4 pen treatment that *every other German ship AND secondary gun* gets in the game. May as well unify the guns for the whole nation, right? With the supposed upcoming HE changes, this means the 128s can pen 32mm of armor. So their low damage is compensated by more much reliable pen damage on larger ships to compensate for their weak torps.

I know this has been brought up here and there, but I figured we might create a thread on this and hopefully get Wargaming's attention.

German DDs need love. Their gimmick is no longer that useful. And for that gimmick that's rarely used, they also get the worst smoke in the game. In fact, British Hydro is now widely considered more useful since it lasts a long long time and is just as good as German Hydro for dealing with torps. And their smoke is WAY better.

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The German DD AP is excellent. That's the balancing factor to the anemic HE. I have zero problems bullying anything except maybe a HMCS Haida out of a cap.

And the AA is surprisingly powerful at high tiers I noticed...

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I don't think German DDs are at the best spot right now, but they still hold their own. Maybe they could use a bit longer Hydro ranges but that's about it. The anemic HE is compensated by good shell ballistics and mean AP.

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Perhaps, but it's very situational. Also, they gave the German cruisers quarter pen on their HE despite the fact that their AP is the hardest hitting in the game for any cruiser due to their weak penetration at range.

Out of curiousity, where do you aim on DDs to activate the fuse? As far as I know, 128s should not fuse on 19mm plating. Do they need to be at an angle? And against larger ships, I gather you aim for the nose or aft? Casemate? I've tried on the superstructures, but it's definitely not consistent.

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Agreed. Their HE damage output means that you rarely want to engage another DD unless you've caught them off guard and their AP is too situational to be used as the main armament. I am not sure I entirely with the torpedoes because I'd rather have fast reloading torpedoes for area denial than slow reloading torpedoes with better alpha. Maybe a slight damage bump if they do not touch reload speed, I'd be happy.

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4 minutes ago, KaptainKaybe said:

Perhaps, but it's very situational. Also, they gave the German cruisers quarter pen on their HE despite the fact that their AP is the hardest hitting in the game for any cruiser due to their weak penetration at range.

Out of curiousity, where do you aim on DDs to activate the fuse? As far as I know, 128s should not fuse on 19mm plating. Do they need to be at an angle? And against larger ships, I gather you aim for the nose or aft? Casemate? I've tried on the superstructures, but it's definitely not consistent.

For 128s, it takes 20-21mm of armor to arm the AP shells. It boils down to only a handful of DD ships that can arm the AP shells: Gearing, Khab, YY to name a few. Otherwise, it is overpen city. You also have to factor in the fuse time as well. 128s have a 0.01 fuse time so you may be arming the AP but the AP shell exits before the timer can hit 0 for that full pen damage.

As for larger ships, I aim above the armor belts/casemates at close range, those shots guarantee arming of the fuse and are wide enough to allow the shell to explode inside the ship. If I'm firing long range and need to use AP, I aim center mass on the superstructure, it's mostly up to RNG at that point. The USN 128s start avoiding the auto bounce angle (for plunging fire) at around 9km for decks but by then, the AP has lost most of its pen capability, to around 50mm.

I try to only fire AP at broadsided ships, however, as nosing on will create too many autobounce angles from even 19mm of plate from superstructures and enemy DDs.

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I doubt that the HE pen is really the issue. More is it that they are lacking a significant amount of HE Alpha. If you calculate it through, you end up with an Alpha between 1700 and 1800. This alone would solve the issues at hand for Gaede, Maass, Z-46 and Z-52.

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1 hour ago, KaptainKaybe said:

So we all know that German DD HE is pretty pathetic. At only 1500 alpha, even IJN torpedo boats pose a challenge. Their Hydro was fantastic back when the boats first came out, but since that time, Radar became a thing and in general, the cap bullying aspect of German DDs is just not that great anymore.

Also, since the flooding changes, German DDs took a HUGE HUGE nerf. Used to be the very low torp damage at high tiers was greatly compensated by fast reload time, allowing these DDs to cause permanent floods that would eventually sink any battleship. But now, flooding is basically just slightly stronger than fire which ended up being a huge damage hit for these DDs. Now, the DDs that are feared the most are those who's torps have big damage. 14400 damage is solid at tier 7. Not at tier 10.

Now if they wish to keep their balance the same as it is now for dealing with other DDs, then logically, the best buff for these ships would be to give their HE the 1/4 pen treatment that *every other German ship AND secondary gun* gets in the game. May as well unify the guns for the whole nation, right? With the supposed upcoming HE changes, this means the 128s can pen 32mm of armor. So their low damage is compensated by more much reliable pen damage on larger ships to compensate for their weak torps.

I know this has been brought up here and there, but I figured we might create a thread on this and hopefully get Wargaming's attention.

German DDs need love. Their gimmick is no longer that useful. And for that gimmick that's rarely used, they also get the worst smoke in the game. In fact, British Hydro is now widely considered more useful since it lasts a long long time and is just as good as German Hydro for dealing with torps. And their smoke is WAY better.

Their hydro is ridiculously long-lasting and quite OP German DD is the one DD I fear to be in a cap with because of this.  I hardly think that they need a buff in anything. Flooding is still very easy to rack up damage with just have to space out your torp hits so they use RP before you launch a second spread. 

 

Getting in close to another DD smoking up and popping hydro is a death sentence for the enemy DD even using the HE. 

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