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Col_Nasty

SO? Whats the counter?

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Island humpers are easy  ( In a DD or CV)  but what about these guys who simply have it better than anyone in the game....they can float around in a cloud of smoke and burn down a BB with 90K HP steaming away at 30knts??  Really?  Was having a great TEAM based game.  suddenly this firehose is on all of us and one by one while RUNNING they were melted.    In my BB I can be seen firing from smoke.  Most CAs too I believe..  SO whats the counter for a ship that basically travels with it's own MOUNTAIN that you can't fight back through? 

1) Can't rush it , you will be dead before you get there.

2) Can't run away or you will die

3)  Can't wait out the smoke or you are dead

4) Without Radar it seems invincible

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Spotter plane. Learn to use it to blind fire into smoke. You be amazed what you can accomplish.

pop spotter plane then its time to be patient. Watch his movements in his smoke while he’s spamming rounds and judge where he will be. Fire a salvo and watch the cits pour in.

Edited by Legio_X_

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Shoot dds that are spotted.

Learn to use the minimap and position such that they can't hit you.

Understand when that damage actually matters (I took 100k or so from a wooster the other day in my Lion. I repaired nearly all of that damage, so the wooster got a big damage game by farming just me for close to 5 minutes while my team killed everything that mattered, leaving him alone).

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1) work your way out of range. Typically this only 12-14 km 

2) head to the training room with some friends and learn how to target into smoke. 

3) the only way they are doing massive damage to you is f you sit there and let them do it. 

 

Remember... the biggest counter to DDs is using your WASD keys. 

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The quickest fix for HE spamming island humping cruisers is a CV.

Ask the CV player on your team to start torping the cruisers that are camping. Not even smoke will save them from random torpedoes being dropped by bombers...

Trust me, they'll move out into the open real quick.

Edited by ElectroVeeDub
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Stay with a cruiser to support you. I can't count the times I tried to stay near a BB but they either stayed in the back or turned away from the fight.  Cruisers love shooting DD and other cruisers but need a BB nearby to draw fire and keep the enemy BB occupied. BBs get burnt down when they fail to stick with their team.

And yes, I know BB usually go a bit slower but it's not 10km away slower. Cruisers push up so they can maneuver but that doesn't mean the BB should stay way back. Push up some, stay near terrain, and help that cruiser give your team the advantage. Worse case you'll have a great fight before you die.

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Thnx everyone.  I was with a CA and a DD but they got deleted.  I was doing Max speed in my Lenin trying to get away.  a DD and that Cloud just followed me back to the green side... of course no one on my team helped but it IS Randoms LOL   Spotter planes and blind firing it is...  WATCHOUT!!!

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1 hour ago, Col_Nasty said:

Island humpers are easy  ( In a DD or CV)  but what about these guys who simply have it better than anyone in the game....they can float around in a cloud of smoke and burn down a BB with 90K HP steaming away at 30knts??  Really?  Was having a great TEAM based game.  suddenly this firehose is on all of us and one by one while RUNNING they were melted.    In my BB I can be seen firing from smoke.  Most CAs too I believe..  SO whats the counter for a ship that basically travels with it's own MOUNTAIN that you can't fight back through? 

1) Can't rush it , you will be dead before you get there.

2) Can't run away or you will die

3)  Can't wait out the smoke or you are dead

4) Without Radar it seems invincible

1. Put up spotter plane (BONUS: you can often reach CVs with it too. Nothing like having First Blood and Dev Strike on a Sky Parasite)

2. Carefully watch shells to see where ship is.

3. Shoot it.

4. Collect citadels.

If you dont have spotter, 2, 3, and 4 will be sufficient. Don't salvo fire, fire turrets in slightly different places -- walk them vertically and horizontally to cover max space. Often the cruiser will skeddadle if you show you can hit it in smoke.

Edited by Taichunger
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2 hours ago, Col_Nasty said:

Thnx everyone.  I was with a CA and a DD but they got deleted.  I was doing Max speed in my Lenin trying to get away.  a DD and that Cloud just followed me back to the green side... of course no one on my team helped but it IS Randoms LOL   Spotter planes and blind firing it is...  WATCHOUT!!!

Are you talking about the new ships that can go full speed in moving smoke?

Edited by Sovereigndawg

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if you have really good player in the red team in    machine gun bote,  you really need to have decent team to beat them    they will put themselves in fairly safe spot  and rain down  dmg on your head.     only way to get them is to really collapse one side so you can flank them.  I am learning to play my neptune and  learning lot about map positioning.       one match today, I did 50k+ to GK     without being detected by red team.       at least I wasn't raining fire  :D

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6 hours ago, ElectroVeeDub said:

The quickest fix for HE spamming island humping cruisers is a CV.

Ask the CV player on your team to start torping the cruisers that are camping. Not even smoke will save them from random torpedoes being dropped by bombers...

Trust me, they'll move out into the open real quick.

Lol guess what the most vocal anti CV voices play.

It's even funnier when they say things like "wasd" which is "Just dodge" and "Be with another ship" which they throw the biggest fit when you suggest they keep their DD near another ship for AA protection.

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17 minutes ago, StoneRhino said:

Lol guess what the most vocal anti CV voices play.

It's even funnier when they say things like "wasd" which is "Just dodge" and "Be with another ship" which they throw the biggest fit when you suggest they keep their DD near another ship for AA protection.

I know, right? :)

LOL

You should see this other thread here called "lets rework CV's" . I literally have CV haters there claiming cruisers don't camp islands and solo sniper BB's shouldn't be punished...

wth?

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Actually, pushing does work...especially in a KM brawler with hydro.  If there's lots of smoke, you can even go quite and disappear as well.  You'll detect the DD with hydro before they detect you....and your secondaries will kick in (and you remain undetected).  Not to mention hydro makes dodging torps pretty easy.

If you have friendly DD support, they can often get close enough to detect DDs that are shooting from smoke, while remaining undetected themselves.  This is very effective vs CAs firing from smoke because their bloom is relatively large compared to a DDs. 

Granted, you often can't yolo.  But lots of options are available.  I've even had situations where I've pushed DDs out of their smoke, and into detection by friendlies, while I get to park in their smoke and rain secondaries on them as they retreat, remaining undetected myself...letting secondaries do the attrition work while I line up a kill shot with the mains.  

Bismarck is very good at this.  Fast.  Maneuverable.  Hydro.  Secondaries.  Good turret rotation rates.  

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17 hours ago, Col_Nasty said:

Island humpers are easy  ( In a DD or CV)  but what about these guys who simply have it better than anyone in the game....they can float around in a cloud of smoke and burn down a BB with 90K HP steaming away at 30knts??  Really?  Was having a great TEAM based game.  suddenly this firehose is on all of us and one by one while RUNNING they were melted.    In my BB I can be seen firing from smoke.  Most CAs too I believe..  SO whats the counter for a ship that basically travels with it's own MOUNTAIN that you can't fight back through? 

1) Can't rush it , you will be dead before you get there.

2) Can't run away or you will die

3)  Can't wait out the smoke or you are dead

4) Without Radar it seems invincible

Hey Col_Nasty,

The number one counter to ships sitting in smoke in a BB is learning to use your spotter plane correctly (if your BB has one). This is a skill that takes time to master but you will see results if you keep practicing. There are also other options you can do but this depends on how far away from the smoke you are and what ship you are in.

Options:

  • Spotter Plane is first and foremost. Learn to use this consumable and you will see results. There are very few things that are as satisfying doing good damage to ships sitting in smoke.
  • If you are in a German BB with hydro, you can try and rush the smoke. This is risky because if you are spotted while trying to move to the smoke the ship in the smoke and other ships will shoot you.
  • The easiest thing to do is just disengage and use your concealment to put distance between you and the smoked area.

Good luck and definitely learn to use the Spotter plane, look for where the shells are coming from in the smoke and fire at it. Remember you will not have "locked on" aim so the shells will disperse more.

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17 hours ago, ElectroVeeDub said:

The quickest fix for HE spamming island humping cruisers is a CV.

Ask the CV player on your team to start torping the cruisers that are camping. Not even smoke will save them from random torpedoes being dropped by bombers...

Trust me, they'll move out into the open real quick.

Dive bombing works well against island-humpers too. The island blocks AA so DBs can drop down over the island right on the with no chance for the AA to do anything. 

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Lots of good advice above me. Your DD should have torpedoed the smoke, the CA as well if so equipped. Remember that if they are in smoke the only way they can see you is if you're spotted elsewhere. Deal with the ship spotting you or disengage to safety. For luls bring a BB that has torps and do the needful.

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18 hours ago, Col_Nasty said:

Island humpers are easy  ( In a DD or CV)  but what about these guys who simply have it better than anyone in the game....they can float around in a cloud of smoke and burn down a BB with 90K HP steaming away at 30knts??  Really?  Was having a great TEAM based game.  suddenly this firehose is on all of us and one by one while RUNNING they were melted.    In my BB I can be seen firing from smoke.  Most CAs too I believe..  SO whats the counter for a ship that basically travels with it's own MOUNTAIN that you can't fight back through? 

1) Can't rush it , you will be dead before you get there.

2) Can't run away or you will die

3)  Can't wait out the smoke or you are dead

4) Without Radar it seems invincible

First thing is if this is happening a lot you aren't positioning yourself well. Sometimes you can't do anything about it, but most of the time you can follow your own DDs and/or cruisers or move through areas that your teammates have already passed through. On maps with islands move to areas where islands block fire on you from one side. 

Second what ship are you talking about? Different ships counter this different ways. Most cruisers can simply go dark. The DD can't see out of its own smoke. BBs as a group are probably the worst at countering smoking DDs. They can't go dark easily, they don't accelerate or turn well, and their detections are fairly high. Your best bet is your team doing something helpful. You can use the spotter to try to nail it in the smoke, but that is far from reliable. If it's a DD or a RN CL, it will just move around a bit in the smoke leaving you to take potshots. If that's all you have, take the shot but don't expect it to work well. It is actually more reliable to stop shooting and try to drop off of detection unless you know something else is nearby and spotting you. 

When you come under fire ffrom a smoking DD you need to take stock of a couple of things:

First, is it actually doing any real damage? Most DDs don't do a lot of damage unless they are consistently hitting your superstructure. If it isn't (say you are bow-on to it) decide if you have to move at all. 

Second, if it is doing damage, you need to figure out the fastest way to extricate. Charging him is not always a bad idea. For German BBs (with hydro) and good secondaries it is actually perfectly reasonable. You can see the torps and you can see him to get your secondaries on him which will force him out. Other ships with good secondaries (Mass, Georgia, some Frenchies) may have some success forcing him out, but without hydro to see what you are going into it is dicey. For those ships, either head behind the nearest island or turn directly away, whichever is quickest and doesn't leave you exposed to fire from the rest of the red team. 

Third, if you can't really extricate turn in or directly away to minimize the hit locations. Then move away until you drop off detection. 

Fourth, call for help. Don't assume your teammates know you are in trouble. Most don't have great map awareness, and even great players don't know what is going on at all times. Call for a radar, or for the CV to try to help you, or for a nearby DD to torp the smoke. You'd be surprised how often people will respond if you let them know you are in trouble. 

Fifth, don't panic or get frustrated. That leads to stupid decisions. Most of the time people panic when a smoking DD starts shooting at them and that is what got them killed. There is no DD in the game that can reduce a same-tier BB from full health to zero all that fast. Even Haragumo can't shred a Kremlin or Yamato all that fast. You have time to make a rational decision. Panicking is what gets you killed. If you can't do anything else, back directly away or move directly away and stop shooting. Save your heal for when the damage starts building up. Don't use DamCon unless you have a lot of fires raging and a long time before they burn out. Not every ship has a good counter for every situation, but every captain can do the best he can with what he has. 

Edited by Tzarevitch
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37 minutes ago, Kami said:

Spotter Plane is first and foremost. Learn to use this consumable and you will see results.

Uhh... what?  Correct me if I'm wrong, but since when can any aircraft spot into smoke? 

 

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4 minutes ago, iDuckman said:

Uhh... what?  Correct me if I'm wrong, but since when can any aircraft spot into smoke? 

 

They dont. It's just easier to see where the shots are coming from exactly

Edited by Arlensauce93

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Someone can correct me If I'm wrong here.  It should be easier to see looking down from above, looking from sea level it is hard to estimate how far into the smoke the shots are coming from (and how far into the smoke your shells are aimed.)

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Battleships have the highest average damage and survival rates (besides CV).  These gunboats ships are low range ships, a battleship has like double their range so don't sail into caps in a bb.

Shooting into smoke I find I get more hits aiming a little lower.  Just wait for Colberts smoked up then you will really see.

Edited by 0NutsNBolts0

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53 minutes ago, iDuckman said:

Uhh... what?  Correct me if I'm wrong, but since when can any aircraft spot into smoke? 

 

When you are in the spotter plane view, you can see more clearly where the tracers are originating from the smoke. This doesn't make the ship visible, just allows you to get a better idea of where the ship is and where to aim. 

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46 minutes ago, HayabusaZ said:

It should be easier to see looking down from above, looking from sea level it is hard to estimate how far into the smoke the shots are coming from (and how far into the smoke your shells are aimed.)

4 minutes ago, Kami said:

When you are in the spotter plane view, you can see more clearly where the tracers are originating from the smoke. This doesn't make the ship visible, just allows you to get a better idea of where the ship is and where to aim. 

Ah, okay.  Thanks.  Something new to try.

 

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Just now, iDuckman said:

Ah, okay.  Thanks.  Something new to try.

 

Anytime, it will take some getting used to but if you can learn to do this properly the results will be good for you =). 

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