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Gin_Blossoms

Barrels Matter with Battleships

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Lyon or Gneis?

Vladivostok or Vanguard?

Massachusetts or Bismarck?

Wyoming or Myogi?

Montana or 457 Conq?

The answers above are obvious.  Now, I am sure there are those within the top 1 percent of the community who will make those 6 to 8 barrel ships work.  Most of them have 10k plus games and access to these ships and associated strengths and weaknesses through their roles as testers.  The rest of us average players however or even those among us who fit the bill as legitimate taters cannot make more with less, i.e. 6 guns versus 12 or more.

I for one am pleased that there are ships with "shotguns".  Let's discuss why.  I am a bad player with bad accuracy...and watching that one RNG blessed shell veer off from where I was aiming (and poorly I might add) and citadel the unicum player who was doing everything right makes me feel rewarded and included in this gaming environment.

A shotgun can blanket a gridsquare and at least gives me the confidence of knowing I will get chip damage.  As a casual USN player, I can take my ship out point shoot without real effort and watch a hit or two...all the while relaxing and having fun.

Now, that leads me to the Georgia...and soon to be Ohio.  Yes...they have REALLY accurate guns, but for those of us who are more casual...they are a step in the wrong direction and I will never invest in them.  I dont have the time or energy TO invest like the super tester unicums out there.  This leads to a problem.  An overpowered ship in the hands of a few is just another step in the wrong direction by WG to separate the haves/overly invested whales against those of us who make up the bottom 80 percent of the actual playerbase here on the NA server.  Not to mention specs for Ohio, when laid down...never showed an 8 gun layout...

On this topic I would like to add that a "glass cannon" still has the most important feature in this game...the cannons...which is why Lyon is such a great ship with 16 guns.  Compared to Gneis...this isnt even a conversation.  With that said...I would like to see an Ohio with 16 guns...not 8...this is an arcade game...lets spice it up so us average folk can actually do some damage and punish the good players evry now and again!

Edited by Gin_Blossoms
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Just now, Gin_Blossoms said:

For who?

That's all anyone in my clan and the clans I hang around with is talking about. 

Guns aren't the be all end all. Some cruisers can face tank a lyon, but can't face tank a colorado. They come with disadvantages. Typically reload, or caliber. 

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Just now, Arlensauce93 said:

For anyone can aim effectively 

Rip 80 percent of the USN playerbase...if we can even get our hands on it.  GJ wg way to promote fair play.

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21 minutes ago, Gin_Blossoms said:

Lyon or Gneis?

Gneis. You have speed, decent-range secondaries, better protection, and guns that can overmatch same-tier BB plating.

21 minutes ago, Gin_Blossoms said:

Now, I am sure there are those within the top 1 percent of the community who will make those 6 to 8 barrel ships work.  

Lol it's a lot more than that

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13 minutes ago, Gin_Blossoms said:

For who?

Think about it, it's literally a Montana with any sort of practical weakness removed.  It can overmatch 30mm, has better reload, better accuracy, half of the heal cooldown, stupid good secondaries, even better AA, and all without any sort of real weakness.

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It's clear that DPM and a high number of barrels increases your likelihood of doing solid damage and contributing to your teams chances of winning. I wish the lesser-armed ships got something to make their damage more meaningful, otherwise its just going to be a lot of the same looking stuff. 

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1 hour ago, Gin_Blossoms said:

For who?

Ohio loses alpha strike, but wins or draws in every other catergory versus Montana. Secondaries, Ohio. Overmatch: Ohio. Heal, Ohio, both more health per second and quick reload, Montana gets neither. AA: DPS wise, both are close, but Ohio has 76.2mm AA guns at mid range, bumping that aura up to 4km, instead of Montana's 3.5km aura. Dispersion: Ohio by... about as big a hatred Ohio State has against Michigan. The more I look at Ohio, the more I think @Ducky_shot is right that Ohio is probably not just better than Montana, but better than any other T10 BB.

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OP: "Ohio and Georgia are too high skilled pls gib more guns / lower skilled ships for us taters"

Iowa and Montana: *exist* Are we a joke to you?

Dunno why you're complaining so hard about lack of shotgun ships when these two exist.

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1 hour ago, Gin_Blossoms said:

Lyon or Gneis?

Vladivostok or Vanguard?

Massachusetts or Bismarck?

Wyoming or Myogi?

Montana or 457 Conq?

The answers above are obvious.  Now, I am sure there are those within the top 1 percent of the community who will make those 6 to 8 barrel ships work.  Most of them have 10k plus games and access to these ships and associated strengths and weaknesses through their roles as testers.  The rest of us average players however or even those among us who fit the bill as legitimate taters cannot make more with less, i.e. 6 guns versus 12 or more.

I for one am pleased that there are ships with "shotguns".  Let's discuss why.  I am a bad player with bad accuracy...and watching that one RNG blessed shell veer off from where I was aiming (and poorly I might add) and citadel the unicum player who was doing everything right makes me feel rewarded and included in this gaming environment.

A shotgun can blanket a gridsquare and at least gives me the confidence of knowing I will get chip damage.  As a casual USN player, I can take my ship out point shoot without real effort and watch a hit or two...all the while relaxing and having fun.

Now, that leads me to the Georgia...and soon to be Ohio.  Yes...they have REALLY accurate guns, but for those of us who are more casual...they are a step in the wrong direction and I will never invest in them.  I dont have the time or energy TO invest like the super tester unicums out there.  This leads to a problem.  An overpowered ship in the hands of a few is just another step in the wrong direction by WG to separate the haves/overly invested whales against those of us who make up the bottom 80 percent of the actual playerbase here on the NA server.  Not to mention specs for Ohio, when laid down...never showed an 8 gun layout...

On this topic I would like to add that a "glass cannon" still has the most important feature in this game...the cannons...which is why Lyon is such a great ship with 16 guns.  Compared to Gneis...this isnt even a conversation.  With that said...I would like to see an Ohio with 16 guns...not 8...this is an arcade game...lets spice it up so us average folk can actually do some damage and punish the good players every now and again!

Or maybe you could just learn to aim better and get better at the game, rather than expect WG to give you pay to win ships to cover up for your lack of ability.

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1 hour ago, Ducky_shot said:

Ummm, Ohio is shaping up to be the strongest bb at t10

The Georgia is a pretty damned strong BB for tier 9, despite having only 6 guns.

 

2 hours ago, Gin_Blossoms said:

Lyon or Gneis?

Vladivostok or Vanguard?

Massachusetts or Bismarck?

Wyoming or Myogi?

Montana or 457 Conq?

The problem here is that you're comparing a 12 gun AP slinger to an 8 gun HE spammer.  And the thing is with the British HE spamming BBs is that their accuracy isn't that great, IMO because that would make them incredibly deadly HE spammers.  Imagine the 12 gun Conq tossing out 12 HE spells and regularly landing 6-8 shells with their high fire start chance.  They'd be starting 2+ fires almost every time.  I believe that the devs intentionally reduced their MG accuracy a bit just to counter this.  But then you look at the 8 gun Conq with a similarly weak accuracy, and it gets worse with those fewer shells to produce fewer hits.  IMO, the 18" Conq could use an accuracy buff to make up for the smaller number of guns.

 

As for Mass vs Bismarck, the difference is a mere 1 gun.  But also, the Mass is a 3x3 ABX turret layout while the Bismarck is a 4x2 ABXY turret layout.  This means that the two ships will be fighting very differently.  The Mass will be showing more bow, while the Bismarck will prefer to open up enough to get all of its guns on target.  But also, the Bismarck, having an equal number of guns fore and aft, will be able to engage in fighting retreats more easily than the Mass, which will have to open up to get its 6 forward guns on target.  Frankly, don't think that a single gun's difference matters a hill of beans.  With these two ships, it's all about fighting the ship to its strengths and understanding how to fight to take advantage of the ship's turret layout.

 

And the Vladdy and Vanguard are in a similar situation, except that the Vanguard should try to keep the range open on a Vladdy, since the Vlad is a Russian BB which will be much less accurate above 12 km or so.

 

 

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OP - if a ship has fewer guns then it likely  has other strengths that make up for it - larger caliber, better reload, more armor, more speed, better AA, etc.

Learn to leverage these strengths like you do extra gun barrels. As a matter of fact, things like better armor and more AA are even more idiot/noob proof than extra guns....zero skill is needed for them to be useful.

That said if shotguns are your thing then have at it - I do love my Fuso -  just realize most players also want more variety than that.

Edited by Dr_Powderfinger
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I have a 28% hit rate in my Gneisenau, second highest behind my (newly acquired) Georgia, also 6 guns.  Also my highest WR ship at 70%. And I'm far from being a 1%er, basically just above 50% WR overall. 

Probably an outlier, but am proof barrels don't necessarily improve result. 

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Hey Captains,

This is an interesting discussion! I am not sure that I agree 100% agree that the more barrels the better and here is why: Some of the ships with less barrels have other characteristics that make them better than ships with more barrels.

First Comparison:

Yamato versus Montana: The classic 9 barrel 18.1 in guns of the Yamato versus the 12 barrel 16 in guns of the Montana.

  • Yamato advantages:
    • 18.1 in guns being the largest in the game! This means the Yamato can overmatch most armor in the game. 
    • The accuracy of the Yamato rewards good aim, this is due to the high sigma value and good dispersion.
    • Shell damage per shell is a bit higher (second highest in the game).
    • Accuracy and ROF can further be improved with the Unique Upgrade.
  • Montana advantages:
    • Number of guns, 12 barrels gives you more "mass" per salvo.
    • Heaviest broadside in the game and best DPM. 
    • More shells, means more chances to do damage and this really shows when you are targeting DDs and cruisers.
    • SHS (super heavy shells) that do great damage if they penetrate. Comparable to GK in damage per shell. 
    • Dispersion is decent but still a bit of a shotgun effect.

Advantage: Yamato!

This comparison is just taking the guns into account. This is kind of the comparison that is fun to make and there will be players on both sides of the conversation. I personally choose the Yamato over the Montana because of a few distinct reasons.

  • Yamato's ability to overmatch most armor, this is really important when you are facing bow on BBs and cruisers that can be troublesome for the Montana to deal reliable damage to.
  • Yamato's ability to do reliable damage to most tier X cruisers, where the Montana can struggle with angled cruisers with thicker armor.
  • Accuracy, for the most part if I miss in the Yamato it is not because my shells didn't go where I aimed. I also find when I am away from the Yamato for a bit, my accuracy suffers and that is because I am not used to the shells going where I am aiming for the most part. 

Second Comparison:

Warspite versus Fuso: The accurate eight 15 in guns of the Grand Old Lady versus the twelve 14 in guns of the classical name of Japan, the Fuso!

  • Warspite advantages:
    • 15 inch guns that are able to overmatch most if not all other ships at the same tier.
    • Accurate guns that most of the time go where you aim.
    • Average reload but keeps you firing at a good pace.
  • Fuso advantages:
    • Lots of barrels, this leads to a big shotgun like effect!
    • Great reload time for tier VI, allowing you to fire more salvos than your contemporaries. 
    • Long range and still the longest at tier VI I believe.
    • Decent HE if you have to use it, making fighting higher tier BBs a bit easier.

Advantage: Fuso!

Of course this is my opinion but I would much rather take the Fuso, but it is close. I like the accuracy of the Warspite but she is at some very distinct disadvantages and these include: range, dealing with DDs and barrels. 

So you can see in both of these comparisons the strenths of the ships (missed some probably) and you can see where number of barrels can play a role! 

What are some comparisons you captains make when choosing a ship to play?

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2 hours ago, Kami said:

Montana advantages:

  • Number of guns, 12 barrels gives you more "mass" per salvo.
  • Heaviest broadside in the game and best DPM. 
  • More shells, means more chances to do damage and this really shows when you are targeting DDs and cruisers.
  •  

:Smile_great:

I state again, I love my Monty! 😉 lol

 

After watching one of Flamu's vids he had put his Halsey on his Montana and found success. I've found his enhanced shell switch capability comes in super handy when dealing with BB's who give angle on bow. Can swap to HE in 7 seconds and start burning.

Edited by Capt_Ahab1776

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3 hours ago, Crucis said:

 

The Georgia is a pretty damned strong BB for tier 9, despite having only 6 guns.

Hey Crucis... I have the Georgia, like her a bunch, but it seems to me that though she has 18' guns, they don't seem to pen like a Yami's guns...is it my imagination, lack of enough games...any hints on game play?

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2 hours ago, Kami said:

snip

I'd honestly say Monty has the advantage considering Yammy's armor tends to fall apart like cheap paper if it shows enough side to get that last turret firing. Also, I'd be willing to bet @LittleWhiteMouse demands you be burned for your Heresy of suggesting Warspite is inferior to Fuso.

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1 minute ago, JediMasterDraco said:

I'd honestly say Monty has the advantage considering Yammy's armor tends to fall apart like cheap paper if it shows enough side to get that last turret firing. Also, I'd be willing to bet @LittleWhiteMouse demands you be burned for your Heresy of suggesting Warspite is inferior to Fuso.

Fuso is easier to use but Warspite is better.

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11 minutes ago, Morpheous said:

Hey Crucis... I have the Georgia, like her a bunch, but it seems to me that though she has 18' guns, they don't seem to pen like a Yami's guns...is it my imagination, lack of enough games...any hints on game play?

Yammys guns are 460mm and can overmatch 32mm. Georgia's guns are only 457mm and cannot overmatch 32mm. 

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Fuso has a lower skill floor, but Warspite has a higher skill ceiling. Warspite is a very capable ship, able to really dominate games at her tier, but players of her more but careful to not show too much side. She's honestly very similar to a tier 6 Yamato.

 

3 minutes ago, JediMasterDraco said:

I'd honestly say Monty has the advantage considering Yammy's armor tends to fall apart like cheap paper if it shows enough side to get that last turret firing. Also, I'd be willing to bet @LittleWhiteMouse demands you be burned for your Heresy of suggesting Warspite is inferior to Fuso.

As somebody who has played both Montana and Yamato at a competitive level, I'd argue strongly in favor of Yamato. You can remain well angled and get all guns to bare still, while the over-match really helps when dealing with cruisers like Henri. Montana is a very good ship, and I enjoy it, but Yamato has a few key advantages.

One way a Yamato can angle is [edited] in, using it's excellent rear-facing turret angles to angle "over the shoulder" and look backward, targetting ships behind it. This also means it can relatively safely kite out, instead of being HE spammed down, drastically increasing your survivability because you're not stuck bow in. However, if you need to push you can also relatively quickly and easily turn in with Yamato's good turning circle.

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