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NoZoupForYou

Hayate - A Better Shimmy (Preview)

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Keep your eyes on this boat... she's a good one.

 

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Hayate piqued my interest a while back, and I'm not even a DD guy.  Shimakaze's guns are actually pretty decent, it's just the gun handling, reload characteristics make them suck.  The raw alpha damage of the guns are actually pretty good.  So a DD that can shoot those high alpha IJN 127mm shells faster?  Looks pretty decent to me.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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If she's for coal or FXP and her service costs are comparable to Salem's, all I can say is "WHEN?"

I've seen at least one other review, which was not as glowing because she's not quite the stealthy torp boat the Shimmy is and she's not quite the gunboat that Gearing is, but any one ship which is both those things is going to be the sort of ship that keeps the Belfast company in exile. You cannot simply walk into Mordor put the Gearing's turrets onto the Shimakaze's hull, give it TRB and let it loose on the world, not outside the special test servers anyway.

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Looks good, still haven't gotten around to testing it yet as I've been a bit busy. Wonder though how it is going to be released and where, currency wise and whatnot.

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This is a high tier DD that I'm very much looking forward to.  A "balanced", aka hybrid, IJN DD, rather that a hardcore gunboat or torp bote DD.  I just hope that it's worth the cost (and that it's available for coal or FXP).

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32 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Hayate piqued my interest a while back, and I'm not even a DD guy.  Shimakaze's guns are actually pretty decent, it's just the gun handling, reload characteristics make them suck.  The raw alpha damage of the guns are actually pretty good.  So a DD that can shoot those high alpha IJN 127mm shells faster?  Looks pretty decent to me.

Shima guns are only a handicap if you get into a sub 5k knife fight. They have the accuracy that allows you to kite away from the other dds and burn them down. Add rpf and you can have your guns pointing the right way when that red dd pops into view. I can get off at least two good salvos before they can return fire. That equates to at least quarter of their health and panic mode as they either try to smoke or disengage. 

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Please be a coal ship, please be a coal ship, please be a coal ship, please be a coal ship, please be a coal ship, please be a coal ship.

 

I'm really looking forward to this DD, so I hope it's not locked behind steel(we dont have a high tier DD for coal yet either), or free exp (I haven't built much back up since purchasing Alaska, certainly not enough for another free exp boat).

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I want.. I want now,, I want seriously want..

IJN Hybrid is good.. ask any HSF Harekaze driver about that they'll confirm... Hybrid is good.   

NOT for novice players however.  A novice can do ok in one,  but its going to take the truly sneaky thinking assassin type high skill expert DD player to get the best out of her and I predict her best will be very very scary.   Has the torps to scare the big ship right out of their bloomers.  Has the guns to give any other DD serious pause.. if they have any brains!

By biggest complaint how ever is not her lackluster concealment but her lackluster speed.  She should be topping 40 to 42 knots under boost with a speed flag and she doesn't.   There are as of now far to many high tier cruisers and battleships that can not only catch her... but pass her!  DD's already have serious survivability issues at high tier with out making it easier by design for them to be sunk.

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1 hour ago, GhostSwordsman said:

Please be a coal ship, please be a coal ship, please be a coal ship, please be a coal ship, please be a coal ship, please be a coal ship.

 

Are you absolutely, positively sure that you want it to be a coal ship?  :Smile_trollface:

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2 hours ago, GhostSwordsman said:

Please be a coal ship, please be a coal ship, please be a coal ship, please be a coal ship, please be a coal ship, please be a coal ship.

 

I'm really looking forward to this DD, so I hope it's not locked behind steel(we dont have a high tier DD for coal yet either), or free exp (I haven't built much back up since purchasing Alaska, certainly not enough for another free exp boat).

I sure hope not. I've already got to build up enough coal to grab Smolensk.

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24 minutes ago, JediMasterDraco said:

I sure hope not. I've already got to build up enough coal to grab Smolensk.

Have we gotten any official word that the Smolensk will be coal? Because that would be awesomesauce and all that.

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Different but better? Hmmm....I don't see it. Speed and concealment is a big deal.

I would just say Different. I will be picking it up but..... I still think the Shima is better.

 

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So it's a decent ship that's fun to play?  I guess that answers the question of how it's going to be purchased - steel.

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The ship looks nice but 6.1km and worse handling than Shima is a bit too much.

 

Personnally I would either give that ship Shima handling and keep the current concealment or keep the current handling but reduce the concealment to 5.9 to match Gearing.

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6 hours ago, TL_Warlord_Roff said:

IJN Hybrid is good.. ask any HSF Harekaze driver about that they'll confirm... Hybrid is good.   

I'll throw in my 2 cents and say that I can confirm. Harekaze with the B-hull (the 100mm Akizuki guns) and the TRB (instead of the smoke) can be quite fun to play, at times. :crab:

Of course, Harekaze has one of the best concealment in the game... while Hayate doesn't, and seems a bit... iffy in that regard, if you ask me. :Smile_hiding:

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6 hours ago, Rabin69 said:

Shima guns are only a handicap if you get into a sub 5k knife fight. They have the accuracy that allows you to kite away from the other dds and burn them down. Add rpf and you can have your guns pointing the right way when that red dd pops into view. I can get off at least two good salvos before they can return fire. That equates to at least quarter of their health and panic mode as they either try to smoke or disengage. 

I remember long ago (2016 or 2017) being in a division with my friend for a Randoms game.  The game was literally down to his low HP Shimakaze to an enemy Gearing that has more HP.  Both ships by this point had done well to carry their team.  At that time, I figured Gearing would win with her superior angling and guns.  What I saw my friend do was bait the Gearing into a gunfight.  Ranges where the USN DD thought it had a good chance to hammer the Shimakaze, but in reality the floaty USN DD shells would not be in Gearing's favor.  The Gearing spammed, spammed, spammed her rainbow HE shells.  Trying to charge quickly bow on, angling out to fire all guns, etc.  The Shima just kept the fight at range, hammering with precision.  IJN DD guns don't fire fast, but the shell arcs are a lot nicer than USN.  Those Shima 127mm shells were simply taking good, periodic chunks of HP.  The once higher HP Gearing starts to panic as it tries to break contact, but it's over as Shima finishes the kill.  Our team wins.  The "Torpedo IJN DD" outguns the "Gunboat Rapid Firing USN DD."

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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8 hours ago, NoZoupForYou said:

Keep your eyes on this boat... she's a good one.

 

I just dont see that.

Shima is the best scout in the game, highly survivable with players that know how to juke in radar heavy environments.  This ship has neither the concealment, the speed and agility, nor the narrow profile.  She's a nice boat, but she has no role in competitive due to the qualities that gets Shima a starting spot.

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31 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

I remember long ago (2016 or 2017) being in a division with my friend for a Randoms game.  The game was literally down to his low HP Shimakaze to an enemy Gearing that has more HP.  Both ships by this point had done well to carry their team.  At that time, I figured Gearing would win with her superior angling and guns.  What I saw my friend do was bait the Gearing into a gunfight.  Ranges where the USN DD thought it had a good chance to hammer the Shimakaze, but in reality the floaty USN DD shells would not be in Gearing's favor.  The Gearing spammed, spammed, spammed her rainbow HE shells.  Trying to charge quickly bow on, angling out to fire all guns, etc.  The Shima just kept the fight at range, hammering with precision.  IJN DD guns don't fire fast, but the shell arcs are a lot nicer than USN.  Those Shima 127mm shells were simply taking good, periodic chunks of HP.  The once higher HP Gearing starts to panic as it tries to break contact, but it's over as Shima finishes the kill.  Our team wins.  The "Torpedo IJN DD" outguns the "Gunboat Rapid Firing USN DD."

I hate that this meme won't die. IJN 127mm DD guns do not have good arcs. They have slightly better than USN/PADD arcs. This is at best around equivalent to worse than the UK 114mm gun arcs, and clearly inferior to the gun arcs of all other destroyer lines. Much like the USN DD guns, it is basically impossible to successfully use these guns outside of 10km and they only have a very narrow advantage over the USN gun inside that. Your friend was simply more accurate and evasive than the Gearing, the ship had little to do with it. I was hoping that Hayate would get superior ballistics using the new, heavier shell the IJN had in development, but this hasn't occurred.

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22 minutes ago, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

I just dont see that.

Shima is the best scout in the game, highly survivable with players that know how to juke in radar heavy environments.  This ship has neither the concealment, the speed and agility, nor the narrow profile.  She's a nice boat, but she has no role in competitive due to the qualities that gets Shima a starting spot.

I agree, 6.1km minimum concealment is Harugumo (6.2km) level concealment, and no one calls the Harugumo a stealthy DD.

I suspect this ship was to be used the same way as the Akatsuki down at T7, powerful guns to remove any DD threat and decent torpedoes to harass BBs. The problem is that with Hayate's current concealment she can't get the drop on any DD except the largest gunboats. Even a Daring will out-spot and out-trade the Hayate in a direct fight. Good IJN DD captains rely on concealment to set up ambush attacks against other DDs, often dealing 3-4k salvos before the opponent can respond while disengaging. Missing that first few seconds of spotting is a great detriment (lose the ability to pick fights) and isn't justified by the 30% faster reload (4s vs 5.7s).

I say keep the Hayate the way she is, but drop the concealment to 5.9km (7.62km stock) to match other hybrids at her tier.

Also 750m turning circle...yikes. A Baltimore can out-turn Hayate...

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21 minutes ago, Aetreus said:

I hate that this meme won't die. IJN 127mm DD guns do not have good arcs. They have slightly better than USN/PADD arcs. This is at best around equivalent to worse than the UK 114mm gun arcs, and clearly inferior to the gun arcs of all other destroyer lines. Much like the USN DD guns, it is basically impossible to successfully use these guns outside of 10km and they only have a very narrow advantage over the USN gun inside that. Your friend was simply more accurate and evasive than the Gearing, the ship had little to do with it. I was hoping that Hayate would get superior ballistics using the new, heavier shell the IJN had in development, but this hasn't occurred.

That's a whole lot of theory. My experience with my Shima after 700+ tells me differently , mind you I do not claim to be an expert Shima player. I have over 150 kills with the guns and to the best of my memory a fair chunk have been against dds.

I have more faith in the accuracy of the guns on the Shima over all my other dds except maybe the high tier RU dds. The turret layout allows you to keep at least two turrets on target while kiting away. The high fire chance and pen damage that you are able to dish out will make any other dd regret their life choices. Too many Shima players in my experience try to get the torps off and lose the early advantage that those guns would give you in a one on one fight.

As with all ship types practise makes perfect, getting these guns to hit at mid to max range is what will separate the better Shima players from the weekend warriors.

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38 minutes ago, Aetreus said:

I hate that this meme won't die. IJN 127mm DD guns do not have good arcs. They have slightly better than USN/PADD arcs. This is at best around equivalent to worse than the UK 114mm gun arcs, and clearly inferior to the gun arcs of all other destroyer lines. Much like the USN DD guns, it is basically impossible to successfully use these guns outside of 10km and they only have a very narrow advantage over the USN gun inside that. Your friend was simply more accurate and evasive than the Gearing, the ship had little to do with it. I was hoping that Hayate would get superior ballistics using the new, heavier shell the IJN had in development, but this hasn't occurred.

Your post doesn't refute that the IJN DDs gunnery is still competitive with USN "Gunboats" :Smile_trollface:

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I love the Akatsuki at tier 7. To me it is one of the best DDs in game because it has pretty decent guns and torps at the same time. Ok most DDs will out-spot you but it normally works fairly well if you play it as a torp boat in the beginning and only use your guns later when red DDs are either dead or on low health. I will get this ship unless it is stupid expensive or difficult to get.

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37 minutes ago, Rabin69 said:

That's a whole lot of theory. My experience with my Shima after 700+ tells me differently , mind you I do not claim to be an expert Shima player. I have over 150 kills with the guns and to the best of my memory a fair chunk have been against dds.

I have more faith in the accuracy of the guns on the Shima over all my other dds except maybe the high tier RU dds. The turret layout allows you to keep at least two turrets on target while kiting away. The high fire chance and pen damage that you are able to dish out will make any other dd regret their life choices. Too many Shima players in my experience try to get the torps off and lose the early advantage that those guns would give you in a one on one fight.

As with all ship types practise makes perfect, getting these guns to hit at mid to max range is what will separate the better Shima players from the weekend warriors.

You can just look at the numbers and see the difference between the arcs. Shima does not possess good gun arcs. Just because the ship has guns that can actually be used to kill targets doesn't make them some sort of revolutionary weapon with redeeming qualities.

33 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Your post doesn't refute that the IJN DDs gunnery is still competitive with USN "Gunboats" :Smile_trollface:

And yours doesn't demonstrate it, being entirely anecdotal. 

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