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CaptainTeddybear

The Italians are coming

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I'm waiting for an RoF buff, unless these guns fire shells in perfect arcs at superspeed or the SAP is just that ludicrous. I don't fancy super-cruiser reload without a lot of hitting power.

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28 minutes ago, JediMasterDraco said:

I'm waiting for an RoF buff, unless these guns fire shells in perfect arcs at superspeed or the SAP is just that ludicrous. I don't fancy super-cruiser reload without a lot of hitting power.

On paper the alpha strike of the SAP seems potent even potentially OP in some cases. From appearances Giussano, Brindisi and Milano appear to have quite strong SAP alpha strike for their tier if you are willing to accept a paddlin'. :cap_popcorn: The tier VIII - X 203mm shells have excellent drag however using the lower weight of HE shells and not the greatest range which doesn't exactly combine well with low rate of fire. However no burn or blast damage is a hefty price to pay for high initial damage.

For the mechanics of the autobounce for the SAP I will quote @Aetreus

On 7/30/2019 at 3:26 PM, Aetreus said:

SAP is much more limited than it first appears because SAP has to be used against belts, decks will ricochet it regularly even with 60-85 angles. Basically it's the fault of the extremely good ballistics that the 203mm/55 has. It has only around 10-15 degrees(didn't figure out exactly how much, but less than Zao more than Moskva) angle of fall at 15km. That means the shell has an incidence of 75-80 degrees, and will usually ricochet. Obviously superstructure will still take damage in that case, but superstructure saturates super quick. Same story will hold for ships angling at something like 70 degrees, they will ricochet ~50 percent of shells(slightly higher incidence due to AoF).

The m/v goes from 900->950 for SAP and 900->910 for AP. More important though, drag goes from 0.254->0.234. The /55 uses a "mod 2" shell, whatever that is supposed to mean.

It will be fascinating to try all three ships out in the test client.

Montecuccoli -

AP with .338 drag and 850 mps at 13 second reload vs .326 drag and d'Aosta's 1000 mps will be a rude awakening for most. :Smile_veryhappy: So I think most will want to stick with SAP just for the speed of the shell 950 mps and .325 drag so you are using a familiar ballistics.

Trento -

This is really just a modest rifle. Meh velocity however the more aerodynamically efficient AP shell is actually given worse drag because reasons. Both shells at 840 mps with .361 for the AP and .319 for the SAP. Kind of selling the SAP a little hard here. Near 17km range and that speed should make for a fun combo though. Sierra Mike is a go. :Smile_playing:

Zara - 

This is where it gets interesting. On paper AP with 900 mps and drag of .29 and SAP with a drag of .256 with 5050 alpha seems exciting. If it wasn't for Yorck getting the extreme upgrade that makes these shells look slow this would really be something. However Lesta dropped the mic with the Yorck buff so Zara is actually a bit meh at tier VII as is. Yorck has better AP thanks to German AP bonus giving Yorck a 5600 vs 4800 advantage. Even while SAP looks a lot better with a 5050 vs 2900 SAP to HE damage difference. The German HE can damage modules and fires every 12 seconds versus 15 seconds. Not to mention a much better range of 17.3 for Yorck versus Zara's 15.7.

I realize everything is WIP and the gm3d data pull can be inaccurate.

Very excited to try these out on the test server. Maybe not so much after we see what hurdles have to be jumped to unlock the ships. :Smile_hiding:

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3 minutes ago, Battleship_Elisabeth said:

15.7 km at tier 7? Gaaarrrrbbbbaaaaggggeee.

The ranges are all over the place so I expect some changes. Unless boom and zoom with sprinting smoke is the game plan. As Aetreus pointed out it is a bit of "not so fast" on the expectations of massive alpha strikes. That's why I'm a bit disappointed the AP remains at 900 mps at the higher tiers. If we are going to have a 20 second reload let's have 960 mps rail gun shells. :fish_viking:

Everything is still a work in progress of course!

Edited by Sparviero

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5 minutes ago, Sparviero said:

The ranges are all over the place so I expect some changes. Unless boom and zoom with sprinting smoke is the game plan. As Aetreus pointed out it is a bit of "not so fast" on the expectations of massive alpha strikes. That's why I'm a bit disappointed the AP remains at 900 mps at the higher tiers. If we are going to have a 20 second reload let's have 960 mps rail gun shells. :fish_viking:

Everything is still a work in progress of course!

Pardon me for my cynicism, but I expect the worst. Because Zara is the most iconic ship in the tree, and because that tree is Italian, it would surprise me greatly if she was anything but junk. Yes, it's still early, but I'm not optimistic when it comes to this company's handling of that nationality.

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12 minutes ago, Battleship_Elisabeth said:

15.7 km at tier 7? Gaaarrrrbbbbaaaaggggeee.

Baltimore is 15.8 at Tier 8.

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11 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Baltimore is 15.8 at Tier 8.

I'm guilty of making an assumption. Different play styles. Baltimore and Edinburgh are expected to play much closer as an example meanwhile Charles Martels are all on the backline.  :Smile-_tongue:

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8 minutes ago, Sparviero said:

I'm guilty of making an assumption. Different play styles. Baltimore and Edinburgh are expected to play much closer as an example meanwhile Charles Martels are all on the backline.  :Smile-_tongue:

See, that's the problem. Depending on how the battle goes, intended play style could all go to hell. How you ought to fight and how a desperate situation requires you to fight are two different things.

I've recently been reading Norman Friedman's "US Cruisers", and he states the opinion that none of the US cruisers designed and built before the Second World War fought the sort of conflict they were actually designed for.

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1 hour ago, Battleship_Elisabeth said:

Pardon me for my cynicism, but I expect the worst. Because Zara is the most iconic ship in the tree, and because that tree is Italian, it would surprise me greatly if she was anything but junk. Yes, it's still early, but I'm not optimistic when it comes to this company's handling of that nationality.

I think it has been pretty well established the community wants their stereotypes stop ruining their fun. WG is happy to oblige. :cap_book:

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54 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

See, that's the problem. Depending on how the battle goes, intended play style could all go to hell. How you ought to fight and how a desperate situation requires you to fight are two different things.

I've recently been reading Norman Friedman's "US Cruisers", and he states the opinion that none of the US cruisers designed and built before the Second World War fought the sort of conflict they were actually designed for.

Especially exacerbated for Italy. There were only two cruisers that really took all the lessons learned, Abruzzi and Garibaldi. Diullio and Doria were much less needed than a half a dozen new generation cruisers. 

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10 hours ago, CaptainTeddybear said:

I was surprised not to see anything about this.

This is what FREEXP is for.

I’ll take 1 Italian Heavy Cruiser...Tier 10 please.

 

 

 

The Bows are all to long for no reason.. Look wierd

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1 hour ago, Battleship_Elisabeth said:

Pardon me for my cynicism, but I expect the worst. Because Zara is the most iconic ship in the tree, and because that tree is Italian, it would surprise me greatly if she was anything but junk. Yes, it's still early, but I'm not optimistic when it comes to this company's handling of that nationality.

Sad but true.  I love the Roma - but she is so inconsistent.   Just some minor buffs and she'd be a great ship and a big seller for WG.

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15 minutes ago, Sparviero said:

Especially exacerbated for Italy. There were only two cruisers that really took all the lessons learned, Abruzzi and Garibaldi. Diullio and Doria were much less needed than a half a dozen new generation cruisers. 

Maybe, but let's face it. You can't blame the Italians for expecting to face the French and British Mediterranean fleets, which leaves them at a disadvantage if the MN and the RN have battleships and the Italians don't. Against the British alone (and supported by German land-based air power) they probably didn't need the battleships AS MUCH, but I don't think anyone expected France to fall the way it did, Germany's hand to be as free as it was (at least until Barbarossa turned from a ROFLstomp into a slugfest) and the French fleet to suffer the fate that it did.

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1 hour ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

I've recently been reading Norman Friedman's "US Cruisers", and he states the opinion that none of the US cruisers designed and built before the Second World War fought the sort of conflict they were actually designed for.

I've not read that book.  Need to check it out.  I would also add to this, few if any of the naval commanders, even thru the first year of the war, trained for the type of war they actually fought.  Some great evidence of this in Neptune's Inferno.

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2 hours ago, Battleship_Elisabeth said:

15.7 km at tier 7? Gaaarrrrbbbbaaaaggggeee.

I noted this elsewhere, but the Italians get access to spotter plane at tier V. They have to give up fighter to get it though, which could be a problem for Zara given her AA power isn't great(Tier VII ships rarely have good AA though, so maybe it's okay?)

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55 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Eventually we'll all be doing our best Italian impersonations.

 

 

Honest question. Do you use insulting and derogatory accents and stereotypes when playing Japanese or other ships? 

At least some lip service of respect for the men and women who served their country would be nice. 

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7 hours ago, JediMasterDraco said:

I'm waiting for an RoF buff, unless these guns fire shells in perfect arcs at superspeed or the SAP is just that ludicrous. I don't fancy super-cruiser reload without a lot of hitting power.

I think 950m/s qualifies as super speed and the SAP sounds like it will be quite good.

 

 

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3 hours ago, SeaborneSumo said:

I've not read that book.  Need to check it out.

Pray that your nearest large reference library has it to read in-house. It's out of print, and expensive second-hand. 

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7 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Pray that your nearest large reference library has it to read in-house. It's out of print, and expensive second-hand. 

Looked it up earlier.  $111 on Amazon,,,, not in the budget.   There are some 'old' book stores around I contact occasionally.  Maybe they can find a copy.

Here's another book I'd recommend.  My father had a 1st edition, which I read multiple times growing up.  Its a collection of stories from WWII taken from multiple sources, including letter and diary entries if I recall.  The supply officer and beans is my favorite part.

United States Navy in World War II

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000OLJLJQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

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