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landedkiller

Sorry wargaming time to put this in the trash

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I have a few T10s and I fully endorse the idea of the NTC. It gives a reason to play ships below T8 other than ops. 

For some of us all the rewards we want are best earned at T10, so to maximize rewards we play there. If the NTC launches I'll have a reason to go back to the low and mid tiers as I work back up to T10 again in ship lines that I enjoy. 

Complaints about the NTC seem to echo the complaints about Steel. Essentially they boil down to "I don't want to do the thing that earns the currency, so nobody else should have the option to either". Does it suck that I'll likely never earn the steel for the French steel BB? Yes, but that doesn't mean nobody else should have the chance to get it. 

Edited by VeatherVitch
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The system exists to unclog the matchmaker of people spamming T10s, by giving those players something new to do at other tiers. It also makes their econ team happy, because fewer players will have hit the economic ceiling.

 

14 minutes ago, landedkiller said:

Your hard work on grinding to tier 10 doesn’t matter to us as we want more money.

That would be a more reasonable complaint if this system were money-based. It's really much more time-based, with moderate potential to be accelerated with money (e.g. converting FXP). Which is a universal design feature of this game's economy.

But if you're super in love with a particular T10 ship as a symbol of your accomplishment, then pick some other line to regrind?

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9 minutes ago, landedkiller said:

All I am seeing is rush rush rush to make the cash cash cash.

What you aren't seeing, (but WG obviously is) is rush rush rush to pay pay pay.

For all you blame WG, they just offer the carrot. The ones chasing it are equally to blame.

It's no different than drugs. If nobody in the USA wanted cocaine, it wouldn't be smuggled into the country, because there would be no profit in selling it.

9 minutes ago, landedkiller said:

A product is doomed to fail eventually when the cash flow stops and that will happen and a lot of you will be out of the job....

No different from any other business. The cash flow doesn't even have to stop, just slow down. Ask any autoworker whose job got shipped abroad.

Also, nobody is more aware of WG's financial situation than WG. For all we know, they plan for their games to turn into a cash grab crap show after a given number of years.

Keeping a game running a long time isn't necessarily more profitable than squeezing the players a few years in, and then have them migrate to one of your newer games. 

And the thing is, WG employees won't necessarily be out of a job, because it's the acquisitions like Lesta that are tied to a particular game, not WG proper. Again, for all we know, the cost to acquire Lesta is factored in as expendable. It could have been chump change compared to what WoWS rakes in.

Dasha could just as easily put on a space suit and promote World of Starships, and the rest of the WG employees can do the same thing they're doing now, just for a different game.

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All you have to do is play the game. The entire game is based around grinding and progressing up the tech lines to reach high tier and compete in high tier modes.

Between the camos and flags theyve added with bonuses to experience it should be no problem at all. For those of us that played since the begining, the real targeted group, that did these grinds without Dragon Flags and Asian Lantern Camos, this is easy.

Besides, what money are they going to make aside from people that waste money on booster packs and free experience because they cant be bothered to to just play the game as it is intended to be?

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8 minutes ago, VeatherVitch said:

I have a few T10s and I fully endorse the idea of the NTC. It gives a reason to play ships below T8 other than ops. 

For some of us all the rewards we want are best earned at T10, so to maximize rewards we play there. If the NTC launches I'll have a reason to go back to the low and mid tiers as I work back up to T10 again in ship lines that I enjoy. 

Complaints about the NTC seem to echo the complaints about Steel. Essentially they boil down to "I don't want to do the thing that earns the currency, so nobody else should have the option to either". Does it suck that I'll likely never earn the steel for the French steel BB? Yes, but that doesn't mean nobody else should have the chance to get it. 

Agreed.

I mean personally, I think anyone who regrinds is silly, but it doesn't hurt me if they do.

The reward offered isn't enough to tempt me, but if it keeps others interested in the game, great!

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33 minutes ago, landedkiller said:

The naval research center(carrot on a stick) is being renamed to Research bureau(carrot on a stick). This is just like the cv rework another bad idea just to encourage players to open up their wallets to get to tier 10 faster. As well as gating more ships behind about currency wall aka “research points”. I find this to be very ridiculous as we disliked the armory most of us anyway whom aren’t in clans. Now they want to tell ya that 3-6 months of grinding means nothing and that you should drop all of that for some stupid ship locked behind a currency wall.

They had a choice to make these ships available for coal or steel, but decided not to due to wanting to make more money off of people regrinding the tech tree. I am pissed beyond belief to see wargaming creating a new armory and thinking that we as players want this. I grinded our some tech trees like 8 of them yes I regretfully spent money on free xp conversion and signal flags. Now I regret it as it provides me with little value and accomplishment. So I am telling you that this Research bureau(carrot on a stick) is not worth your time or investment.

  As wargaming is essentially tell us “we want more money, so we are going to lock these pretty ship pixels behind a wall to entice you to spend more money. Your hard work on grinding to tier 10 doesn’t matter to us as we want more money.” The money being spent again on grinding to tier ten. I have stopped spending money since the disaster that is the cv rework and now I am getting the same gut feeling that this will also be a disaster and will not be supporting this.

 As someone who has several tier 10’s this is dumbest idea I have seen come out of wargaming for a long time and I suggest scrapping this feature until it is further refined. As again it seems you have not listened to the players. We have a talented community on reddit, why not ask them for some ideas on how to refine this feature. If anyone supports this idea then they simply are saying “ I don’t care about my hard work grinding, I want the pretty pixelship gimme it now.” Of course they’re people who don’t care at all and will just pass over this post and let wargaming do whatever they want by not saying anything.

 I am sure the majority at least wants to see this idea reworked some more and is not in a rush to see in the game by 8.7. All I am seeing is rush rush rush to make the cash cash cash. No more cash from me until improvement is made on this research burea(carrot on a stick). Honestly do think people will forget that easily that Naval Research Center= Research Bureau.

 No matter how many times you have changed the name on The armory for instance, I forget the old name, some people will still be around to remind you that we did not ask for these things and offered plenty of alternatives and wargaming did not listen. A product is doomed to fail eventually when the cash flow stops and that will happen and a lot of you will be out of the job, because you did not listen to your player base. Remember that larger California office it got closed and now wargaming NA is in a tiny dental office in Austin, Texas.  It is sad to see so many lose their jobs due to someone making poor decisions up top. Maybe next it will be the tiny dental office in Austin Texas that goes next and then a server merge within 5-10 years. All due to the game designers not listening to the player base. You make money, by keeping the consumer happy end of story. 

 

put in a support ticket

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16 minutes ago, Edgecase said:

The system exists to unclog the matchmaker of people spamming T10s,

Instead of doing something about why so many players hide at T10 to start.

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16 minutes ago, VeatherVitch said:

I have a few T10s and I fully endorse the idea of the NTC. It gives a reason to play ships below T8 other than ops. 

For some of us all the rewards we want are best earned at T10, so to maximize rewards we play there. If the NTC launches I'll have a reason to go back to the low and mid tiers as I work back up to T10 again in ship lines that I enjoy. 

Complaints about the NTC seem to echo the complaints about Steel. Essentially they boil down to "I don't want to do the thing that earns the currency, so nobody else should have the option to either". Does it suck that I'll likely never earn the steel for the French steel BB? Yes, but that doesn't mean nobody else should have the chance to get it. 

This ^^^^

The only thing bad about the original NTC proposal was that the rewards were just too OP. The idea of the NTC is a great one.

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21 minutes ago, Edgecase said:

The system exists to unclog the matchmaker of people spamming T10s, by giving those players something new to do at other tiers.

Again and again and again. :Smile_trollface:

I read the dev blog post on Facebook and OMG, it's going to be FOUR regrinds to get the Colbert (but for a first-time bonus, it would be FIVE). :cap_wander_2:

I have ONE researchable T10 ship. ONE. Dear sweet Lord, that's a lot of grinding! :Smile_teethhappy: Older crate bundles are going to sell like hotcakes for the Draconic flags, that's for sure.

For those who are asking themselves "Why did I research [Insert ship line here] when it's been nerfed into utter garbage?", now at last all that work you put in has a payoff. 

 

 

I prefer the Research Bureau name; Naval Training Centre was somewhat misleading.

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I know they are WIP, but some of the ships look OP so it's basically like the NTC concept.  Hopefully it won't give an advantage in clan battles.

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14 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

Agreed.

I mean personally, I think anyone who regrinds is silly, but it doesn't hurt me if they do.

The reward offered isn't enough to tempt me, but if it keeps others interested in the game, great!

Exactly, as with many other things in the game.  To paraphrase Jefferson ...

But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say NTC is great or NTC is terrible. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.

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57 minutes ago, Edgecase said:

The system exists to unclog the matchmaker of people spamming T10s, by giving those players something new to do at other tiers. It also makes their econ team happy, because fewer players will have hit the economic ceiling.

No.

If the point were to get people to play low and mid tier ships more often, then the system would be built around actually playing those tiers, not selling off all the ships in those tiers back to the nub of the line. 

It's built around regrinding those tiers, and is intended to drive money expenditure on premium time and converting "elite" XP to "free" XP.   WG clearly considers the tens of millions of EXP sitting around unconverted on many of our accounts "lost revenue" because we won't mass covert it to FXP at the onerously expensive rates WG has set (25 per doubloon). 

Wargaming doesn't care if you ever replay those tiers, they want your money for skipping replaying those tiers to get the shiny new ships. 

 

Edited by KilljoyCutter
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Nothing is stopping people from playing the lower tier boats that they have yet they don't. Regrinding a line just puts you in the same place again and once you progress past a tier that boat will probably be left behind again. You end up in the same space but now have been ripped off for your xp in the process.

Edited by Chain_shot
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1 minute ago, Chain_shot said:

Nothing is stopping people from playing the lower tier boats that they have yet they don't. Regrinding a line just puts you in the same place again and once you progress past a tier that boat will probably be left behind again. You end up in the same space but now have been ripped off for your xp in the process.

Some people don't play lower tiers because the rewards are lower compared to the higher tiers. 

I don't care that I can play my T4 boats if the reward for doing so isn't as good as playing my T8-10. 

I also fail to see how you are "ripped off" with xp in the proposed process? 

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1 hour ago, VeatherVitch said:

I have a few T10s and I fully endorse the idea of the NTC. It gives a reason to play ships below T8 other than ops. 

For some of us all the rewards we want are best earned at T10, so to maximize rewards we play there. If the NTC launches I'll have a reason to go back to the low and mid tiers as I work back up to T10 again in ship lines that I enjoy. 

Complaints about the NTC seem to echo the complaints about Steel. Essentially they boil down to "I don't want to do the thing that earns the currency, so nobody else should have the option to either". Does it suck that I'll likely never earn the steel for the French steel BB? Yes, but that doesn't mean nobody else should have the chance to get it. 

If steel is only available in clan wars, then the very powerful steel ships earned should only be able to be played in clan wars.  Yes ?

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5 minutes ago, VeatherVitch said:

Some people don't play lower tiers because the rewards are lower compared to the higher tiers. 

I don't care that I can play my T4 boats if the reward for doing so isn't as good as playing my T8-10. 

I also fail to see how you are "ripped off" with xp in the proposed process? 

not sure if this qualifies (depends on your standards/expectations), but as the tech tree xp is stacked on the tier 1 after a tech tree reset, players have the option of converting it all to free xp for cash. I struggle to imagine many players will honestly grind x 5 tech trees to unlock one premium tier 10, without resorting to xp to free xp conversion. Often, players wil lhave already converted xp to free xp to speed up their original tech tree grind, so we will have situations where players :

  1. convert xp to free xp to speed up IJN dd tech tree
  2. convert xp to free xp to speed up KM dd tech tree
  3. reset KM and IJN tech trees, XP from these tech trees is stacked on the tech tree tier 1
  4. convert reset xp to free xp to speed up IJN dd tech tree
  5. convert reset xp to free xp to speed up KM dd tech tree

rinse and repeat. (I don't think many people here have understood this yet)

 

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Why are you complaining? Dont like it? Don't regrind. I personally have no desire to regrind and I wont. I have alot of other lines to grind. 

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45 minutes ago, LoveBote said:

not sure if this qualifies (depends on your standards/expectations), but as the tech tree xp is stacked on the tier 1 after a tech tree reset, players have the option of converting it all to free xp for cash. I struggle to imagine many players will honestly grind x 5 tech trees to unlock one premium tier 10, without resorting to xp to free xp conversion. Often, players wil lhave already converted xp to free xp to speed up their original tech tree grind, so we will have situations where players :

  1. convert xp to free xp to speed up IJN dd tech tree
  2. convert xp to free xp to speed up KM dd tech tree
  3. reset KM and IJN tech trees, XP from these tech trees is stacked on the tech tree tier 1
  4. convert reset xp to free xp to speed up IJN dd tech tree
  5. convert reset xp to free xp to speed up KM dd tech tree

rinse and repeat.

 

I don't see the issue with that. I don't spend money on fxp conversions myself, but if others wish to, then all the more power to them.

From my point of view, if people want to spend money on getting Colbert first that's cool. I'll get to it when I do, if ever...

What I take issue with is people trying to prevent other players from having options. (I don't think that's what you are saying)

Edited by VeatherVitch
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1 hour ago, Edgecase said:

That would be a more reasonable complaint if this system were money-based. It's really much more time-based, with moderate potential to be accelerated with money (e.g. converting FXP). Which is a universal design feature of this game's economy.

This statement shows a great deal of ignorance about the NTC.

It's fully designed to capitalize on people buying gold, converting XP, and blasting back up the line they just re-sold to get the overpowered bonus premium at the end.

It is a naked cash grab and a transparent pay-to-win system. Yes, there are some folks who will grind it normally, but there are easily just as many who will skip the grind with cash and that is what WG is counting on.

 

If WG really cared about incentivizing mid-tier play (after over a year of doing everything they can to incentivize high tier play and then acting surprised that most people play high tiers) they'd just hold more events in mid and low tiers. This motivation WG hides behind is a lie. The P2W scheme outlined above is the actual motivation behind the NTC and always was.

 

Defending this mechanic is cheerleading P2W and ushering in the death of any semblance of fairness this game ever had.

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38 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

Wargaming doesn't care if you ever replay those tiers, they want your money for skipping replaying those tiers to get the shiny new ships. 

8 minutes ago, KiyoSenkan said:

If WG really cared about incentivizing mid-tier play (after over a year of doing everything they can to incentivize high tier play and then acting surprised that most people play high tiers) they'd just hold more events in mid and low tiers. This motivation WG hides behind is a lie. The P2W scheme outlined above is the actual motivation behind the NTC and always was.

Smart designers make systems that do more than one thing at a time. The idea that because it can incentivize whales to whale, it's not ALSO designed to get people out of T10 is a false dichotomy. It actually does a number of other things as well.

Edited by Edgecase
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4 minutes ago, Edgecase said:

Smart designers make systems that do more than one thing at a time. The idea that because it can incentivize whales to whale, it's not ALSO designed to get people out of T10 is a false dichotomy. It actually does a number of other things as well.

It's a transparent cash grab made by desperate developers running the game into the ground while trying to keep their profit margins up.

The game's population is dropping on all servers, most dramatically in RU. Lesta/WG are trying to keep the cash flowing but have to come up with stupider and stupider monetization schemes to rake in their income with fewer people to fleece.

 

This is obvious.

Painfully obvious.

Edited by KiyoSenkan
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23 minutes ago, Edgecase said:

Smart designers make systems that do more than one thing at a time. The idea that because it can incentivize whales to whale, it's not ALSO designed to get people out of T10 is a false dichotomy. It actually does a number of other things as well.

You can't incentivize people to play at lower tiers by forcing them to sell off their lower tier ships and then giving them every incentive to skip those tiers and get back to tier X as fast as possible. 

The only way to incentivize play in the lower tiers is to actually reward people for playing a significant number of battles in those tiers. 

If the goal was to get players to play in the lower tiers, then the system would be designed around "play X battles and earn Y base XP in each ship in the line, from tier 4 to tier 7" or whatever, building up "Research Tokens" for completing the mission at each tier.  

 

 

Edited by KilljoyCutter
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20 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

You can't incentive people to play at lower tiers by forcing them to sell off their lower tier ships and then giving them every incentive to skip those tiers and get back to tier X as fast as possible. 

The only way to incentivize play in the lower tiers is to actually reward people for playing a significant number of battles in those tiers. 

If the goal was to get players to play in the lower tiers, then the system would be designed around "play X battles and earn Y base XP in each ship in the line, from tier 4 to tier 7" or whatever, building up "Research Tokens" for completing the mission at each tier.  

 

 

^^^^ This is right. In my experience any game that ends up resorting to player resets back to first level end up being boring after the first pass. The same problems persisted that were there in the first place and the reset just kicked the original complaints down the road for a couple of months.

You want lower tier play then give people competitions and rewards for becoming masters at the lower tiers. Give em ranked and rouge wave and clan battles from 2-7. let them get fancy flags and stuff.

let them (lower tiers) deck out their ship with mods that make em legendary when they get enough xp.

 

The tier 10 NTC ships should be available when a player wins 3000 battles in a T10. that would be an incentive.

Edited by Chain_shot

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