Jump to content
You need to play a total of 20 battles to post in this section.
warheart1992

Is NTC still a bit broken in the form of WiP Colbert? (Flamu gameplay vid)

65 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

5,255
[KWF]
Members
6,715 posts
7,321 battles

A couple of hours ago Flamu uploaded a vid on the new updated version of Colbert, that for some reason was buffed after a few rounds of testing. The footage, along with his commentary made me wonder whether Colbert is simply too potent (albeit fragile and bland gameplay wise) in it's current form in the game. While Flamu sometimes overreacts, his worry in the one feels warranted. The devils advocate could of course consider that Colbert is that big fat juicy carrot at the end of the stick that will be NTC, therefore giving you a tool to dominate for all your hard work (or free XP). Now, I'm not saying that a broken ship is as bad as the ability to make any ship you wish broken, but still, not particularly liking the direction this is headed to. Moreover, the absurd theoretical DPM this ship can reach, even if we take into account shatters, will turn high tier gameplay even more passive. And this one has insane AA to make it nigh immune to any CV strike that could dislodge one from its position.

The vid is definitely worth a watch if interested in this.

Edited by warheart1992
  • Cool 2
  • Funny 1
  • Boring 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36,640
[HINON]
Alpha Tester
26,251 posts
22,540 battles

It's as OP as Atlanta, but softer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7,513
[HINON]
Members
14,340 posts
5 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

 And this one has insane AA to make it night immune to any CV strike that could dislodge one from its position.

Hmm better star shells? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5,255
[KWF]
Members
6,715 posts
7,321 battles
Just now, RipNuN2 said:

Hmm better star shells? 

At some point I guess this typo should make actual sense :Smile_hiding:.

  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
564
[R-F]
Members
333 posts
11,970 battles

I think fundamentally that glass cannon ships are really hard to balance, for good players that can really max them out they do more than any other ships. But for not great players they can be really bad. I know this opinion is less popular but I think Slava is probably at least sort of the same way, that BB will be soft as hell.

 

Colbert is 127s right? What are the IFHE change implications on that caliber at tier 10?

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
839
[USN]
Members
1,753 posts
22,014 battles
4 minutes ago, Ossiuum said:

Colbert is 127s right? What are the IFHE change implications on that caliber at tier 10?

HE pen goes from 21 to 25mm. And every cruiser she'll face will get 27 or 30mm deck and side armor, so IFHE will do basically nothing of value.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6,279
[SIM]
Members
5,909 posts
9,432 battles

No, the new NTC is not broken (at least it doesn’t appear to be). If Colbert is overpowered then that’s a problem with the ship, not the system. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11,043
[SALVO]
Members
26,737 posts
32,126 battles

@warheart1992  To address the NTC part of your thread's subject line question, I think that it will be forever broken if it relies on a player having to regrind lines they've already completed.  I hate the idea that they're going to hide reward ships behind this sort of grind wall with a bloody passion.  And I hate the idea of having to regrind any tech tree line more than once for any reason other than perhaps just because the player wants to do it for its own sake.

I would rather that an "NTC" be a concept related to training.  Training new players, for starters.  Maybe some kind of thing that gives you a Commander's XP bonus, whether in a straight up fixed amount of Commander's XP or Elite Commander's XP, or possibly a number of battles where you get something like a +100% Commander's XP bonus.  This could be on a specific ship, or a specific ship type (BB, cruiser, DD, CV), or just a general bonus (usable on whatever ship you happen to play) or a straight to Elite Commander's XP bonus.  Of course, there's nothing in this idea (at least at the moment or from what I can see) that can be marketed for WG to milk its customer base for more money, unless of course they require you to pay a certain amount of doubloons to take the NTC class (for the second part, not the training new players part).  I wouldn't be offended, I guess, if the amount of doubloons required was nominal (say 100 db or less), but knowing WG, they'd probably want to hit you up for more like 1k db.

 

 

 

 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,038
[TOG]
Members
4,610 posts
29,159 battles

Well, they have to make NTC appealing to grind out. So new ships that makes it appealing to grind. At least it's not behind a steel wall.

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,787
[DEV_X]
[DEV_X]
Alpha Tester
3,376 posts
28,291 battles
17 minutes ago, Crucis said:

To address the NTC part of your thread's subject line question, I think that it will be forever broken if it relies on a player having to regrind lines they've already completed.  I hate the idea that they're going to hide reward ships behind this sort of grind wall with a bloody passion.  And I hate the idea of having to regrind any tech tree line more than once for any reason other than perhaps just because the player wants to do it for its own sake.

A big part if the game is grinding though, trying to get the best scores to progress quickly up to the best ships. It seems fitting to me in a way. In another way I sort of get not wanting to give up your ships and doing it all again though.

I think it's a good thing to make people have something that's more engaging than what we currently have. So much of the game is wrapped up at tier 10 it's not always worthwhile to visit the lower tiers. Combine in the constant up-tiering due to a lack of low level players and I think it might work out well. As long as I keep my captians and my modules I'm cool with it. I know we get to keep any permanent camos.

Guessing, by your number of games, you've probably maxed out about everything there is to do. I know I have. Also, you were probably around for when a grind really was a grind. Now they give out so many bonus camos and flags with +100% experience, or even more, that it seems like it will be far easier. Add to that certain ships that were garbage back in the day have been buffed or moved position now and the York, Izumo, and other formerly garbage ships are way better now. Finally, add in all the free experience modifiers for clan battles as well as with flags and camos, it should be easy street.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,787
[DEV_X]
[DEV_X]
Alpha Tester
3,376 posts
28,291 battles
1 minute ago, Bill_Halsey said:

Well, they have to make NTC appealing to grind out. So new ships that makes it appealing to grind. At least it's not behind a steel wall.

I agree. The number of ships compared to the ratio of rare resources an average player gets can quickly spiral out of control.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11,043
[SALVO]
Members
26,737 posts
32,126 battles
2 minutes ago, Skuggsja said:

A big part if the game is grinding though, trying to get the best scores to progress quickly up to the best ships. It seems fitting to me in a way. In another way I sort of get not wanting to give up your ships and doing it all again though.

I think it's a good thing to make people have something that's more engaging than what we currently have. So much of the game is wrapped up at tier 10 it's not always worthwhile to visit the lower tiers. Combine in the constant up-tiering due to a lack of low level players and I think it might work out well. As long as I keep my captians and my modules I'm cool with it. I know we get to keep any permanent camos.

Guessing, by your number of games, you've probably maxed out about everything there is to do. I know I have. Also, you were probably around for when a grind really was a grind. Now they give out so many bonus camos and flags with +100% experience, or even more, that it seems like it will be far easier. Add to that certain ships that were garbage back in the day have been buffed or moved position now and the York, Izumo, and other formerly garbage ships are way better now. Finally, add in all the free experience modifiers for clan battles as well as with flags and camos, it should be easy street.

 

I can't agree.  The regrinding lines thing is very offensive to me.  It seems like they'd rather just create a small number of high tier ships and then force us to regrind lines, rather than do proper second lines, like a second USN BB and second USN DD line.  For crying out loud, there's no reason they couldn't have done a second BB line and used the Georgia and Ohio as the tiers 9 and 10.  Or a second DD line where the Benham and Sommers were the tier 9 and 10.  But noooooo, they probably think that that's too damned much work.

 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,038
[TOG]
Members
4,610 posts
29,159 battles

You don't have to do the grind. You do want to see and adequate reward, if you do decided to grind. At least they didn't follow through on the first idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,787
[DEV_X]
[DEV_X]
Alpha Tester
3,376 posts
28,291 battles
23 minutes ago, Crucis said:

I can't agree.  The regrinding lines thing is very offensive to me.  It seems like they'd rather just create a small number of high tier ships and then force us to regrind lines, rather than do proper second lines, like a second USN BB and second USN DD line.  For crying out loud, there's no reason they couldn't have done a second BB line and used the Georgia and Ohio as the tiers 9 and 10.  Or a second DD line where the Benham and Sommers were the tier 9 and 10.  But noooooo, they probably think that that's too damned much work.

 

I see your point there. My thought is I'd rather have to regrind a line for a ship than something like the Benham fuel tokens or max out rewards from ranked and Clan battles every season to get a ship once every 6 months.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11,043
[SALVO]
Members
26,737 posts
32,126 battles
1 minute ago, Skuggsja said:

I see your point there. My thought is I'd rather have to regrind a line for a ship than something like the Benham fuel tokens or max out rewards from ranked and Clan battles every season to get a ship once every 6 months.

I don't mind having to work the event tokens.  Anyone can do that.  I do mind having ships hidden behind Ranked and Clan Battles steel.  So I suppose that NTC grinding isn't as bad as Ranked and Clan steel grinding, but not by much.

I would MUCH rather that they get off their behinds and just create second lines.  Second USN BB and DD lines, and RN and German BC lines, for starters.  But now that they are or seem committed to having ships like the Benham/Somers and Georgia/Ohio and Siegfried, among others, as coal/steel/FXP/whatever ships, they're pretty much making those second line much more difficult to do since they're sort of removing some great candidates to fill the tier 9/10 slots on those lines.  And it pissesmeoff.

 

 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,351
[EQRN]
Members
2,301 posts
21,469 battles

Watch his video on Black and Somers, same sort of “the sky is falling” without taking into account how infrequently these ships will be seen (when the Black was only available to people who ranked out x amount of times)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
268 posts
13,103 battles

It still doesn't have radar, so I don't see how it can be impactful enough to be "overpowered."  It takes up a cruiser slot, and can't even slot Hydro without giving up DFAA. It's concealment isn't even that great compared to how fragile it is.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
168 posts
12,147 battles
5 hours ago, warheart1992 said:

A couple of hours ago Flamu uploaded a vid on the new updated version of Colbert, that for some reason was buffed after a few rounds of testing. 

Oh yes. Super low risk. I am within 5km of an Alaska and Yoshino and below 10k twice but yes, yes, observe my low risk play.

He pulls this off, you won’t.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10,398
[B2P]
Members
13,459 posts
40,272 battles
4 hours ago, Crucis said:

I don't mind having to work the event tokens.  Anyone can do that.  I do mind having ships hidden behind Ranked and Clan Battles steel.  So I suppose that NTC grinding isn't as bad as Ranked and Clan steel grinding, but not by much.

I would MUCH rather that they get off their behinds and just create second lines.  Second USN BB and DD lines, and RN and German BC lines, for starters.  But now that they are or seem committed to having ships like the Benham/Somers and Georgia/Ohio and Siegfried, among others, as coal/steel/FXP/whatever ships, they're pretty much making those second line much more difficult to do since they're sort of removing some great candidates to fill the tier 9/10 slots on those lines.  And it pissesmeoff.

Totally with you there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9,857
[NMKJT]
Beta Testers
24,800 posts
3,912 battles
5 hours ago, SkaerKrow said:

No, the new NTC is not broken (at least it doesn’t appear to be). If Colbert is overpowered then that’s a problem with the ship, not the system. 

The problem is the system that encourages paying for gold to convert FXP and repeat-grind the lines for an overpowered premium.

They didn't do away with the pay-to-win aspect. They just moved it.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9,763
[CMFRT]
[CMFRT]
Banned
16,985 posts

NTC is still broken in that it requires players to sell off ships they've kept, and often that they're already playing, under the excuse of "encouraging" them to play the very ships they're being required to sell off and regrind. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,119
[TARK]
Members
7,331 posts
3,407 battles
1 hour ago, KiyoSenkan said:

The problem is the system that encourages paying for gold to convert FXP and repeat-grind the lines for an overpowered premium.

They didn't do away with the pay-to-win aspect. They just moved it.

Yup.

Told y'all so.

Naked pay2win is coming.

  • Cool 1
  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,734
[KIA-C]
Members
3,831 posts
17,012 battles
7 hours ago, warheart1992 said:

. Moreover, the absurd theoretical DPM this ship can reach, even if we take into account shatters, will turn high tier gameplay even more passive.

-When Henri was added to the game, people claimed it will make the game more passive because high fire chance

-When Minotaur was added to the game people said it will make the game more passive because smoke + stupid DPM

-When Harugumo was added people also said it will make the game passive because high DPM ship

-Same for Worcester.

 

Each time a new ship with either good fire chance or good DPM is added, people always says it will make the game more passive. Spoiler alert, it doesn't change the game at all.

 

 

With that said, I agree this ship can be stupid in hands of unicum but again, that works with every ship. But this looks very fun to play to say the least.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,559
[--K--]
[--K--]
Alpha Tester, In AlfaTesters
2,918 posts
10,625 battles
3 hours ago, KiyoSenkan said:

The problem is the system that encourages paying for gold to convert FXP and repeat-grind the lines for an overpowered premium.

They didn't do away with the pay-to-win aspect. They just moved it.

Its a practice of "how much can we get away with?" for what it is.  Ultimately, they have just moved but then one can argue "but its only OP at X tier they place the premium at!" which is indeed better than their buff system for the line but really all this does is continuously poison what is already a cesspool at tier 10.  

As LWM and others have pointed out, the overall balance of the game isn't horribly affected by hard to get Premium, but what happens when you oversaturate the game with reward premiums that are OP at endgame?  I don't think I need to explain what implications there are to people with more than two braincells to rub together.

Still a not very good system, but we are already trained to accept these things with the "balanced" existence of things such as Stalingrad.  I would go as far as to say this was always plan B to have things like Ohio be around and their real goal, not the buffs.  

In the AAA gaming industry which Jim Sterling always points out, these game corporations always release a product that has issues and an egregious monetization system in order to move the goal posts back because this does TWO things:  Allows them to have the move back point what they truly want and making it SEEM better because they did and making it seem more acceptable but also conditioning us in the long run, but also score PR victories for the problem THEY created, a fact that average potato doesn't even stop to consider for a split second.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
123
[NSFW]
[NSFW]
Members
199 posts
8,183 battles
3 minutes ago, CaliburxZero said:

 

Still a not very good system, but we are already trained to accept these things with the "balanced" existence of things such as Stalingrad.  I would go as far as to say this was always plan B to have things like Ohio be around and their real goal, not the buffs.  

 

Imagine the exodus if people de-trained themselves. But, you have to ask why we continue to accept it and support companies that keep doing this kind of crap.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×