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Martymart1976

Aircraft carrier help!

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First, my whole squadron seems to get knocked out of the air with little or no damage caused to the ship.  I single out ships isolated alone.  I attack ships with little/bad AA fire.  Yes I know about dodging the flak bursts, but I can only pull off about one good run before my whole flight is dead.  What am I doing wrong or is the AA just that broken?  Keeping my CVs in port for a bit...

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AA is over broken, stop playing with cv util they buff the cvs again.

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19 minutes ago, Martymart1976 said:

First, my whole squadron seems to get knocked out of the air with little or no damage caused to the ship.  I single out ships isolated alone.  I attack ships with little/bad AA fire.  Yes I know about dodging the flak bursts, but I can only pull off about one good run before my whole flight is dead.  What am I doing wrong or is the AA just that broken?  Keeping my CVs in port for a bit...

It's hard to say without knowing what you are playing and seeing what you are doing. The most useful thing I've found that works for everything is plot your attack over islands. Tall islands block AA fire and they can allow you to get through long and medium range AA without facing any real flak and little sustained damage. You want to prioritize weaker AA ships that are close to islands (but not so close that your TBs and Attack planes don't arm.) 

Secondly I boost through the attack when I hit the AA aura. You need to keep your speed reserves for that especially for nations with slower planes (USN + lower tier RN). It is vital to not spend any more time in the aura than you have to. Also spec your captain for durability when you can. 

Also, when your planes start the attack run they gain a damage reduction (I don't think attack planes have it, but DBs and TBs do). Trigger that quickly (TBs mainly) once you enter the AA envelope. It'll help them survive. if you are taking a ton of damage trigger it again as you are leaving. Use this along with boosting to minimize the damage you take. You have to get closer for DBs before starting the attack run (and thus take some damage) but they seem to have a better damage reduction. 

You also need to understand how defensive fighters (both ship and CV dropped) work. In general X fighters will kill X planes in your group. The fighters will rarely come in to attack in time to stop your incoming attack if you are fast, but they WILL kill planes before they get out. You need to decide if it is worth it. If you only have 1/3 or less of your airgroup left, attack and don't worry about the fighters. Once your planes drop defensive fighters will lock onto them but they'll leave the AA area safely and the consumable is wasted. If you have more of them left it may be worth going after something else until the fighters go away.

The final thing is sometimes you need to wait. Early game isn't great for CVs. You are facing undamaged AA and ships tend to be too clumped together. Don't rush in. Fly around and keep things spotted, then go after targets being focused. You'll help kill them faster and they'll be easier to attack due to lost AA mounts. 

Again, it is hard to tell what you are doing wrong without video or a better description. 

 

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31 minutes ago, Martymart1976 said:

First, my whole squadron seems to get knocked out of the air with little or no damage caused to the ship.  I single out ships isolated alone.  I attack ships with little/bad AA fire.  Yes I know about dodging the flak bursts, but I can only pull off about one good run before my whole flight is dead.  What am I doing wrong or is the AA just that broken?  Keeping my CVs in port for a bit...

You can follow the advice some are giving and quit, or you can stick it out and try to get better.  Right now the expectations for CVs have changed.  You used to be able to make attacks on ships with few plane losses.  Not anymore, as you learned.  The expectation now is you more or less only get one good attack run out of your squadron.  This is especially true in the early game.  Be more selective in your targeting early, and only make one attack run.  As the match goes on the ships will thin out and you'll have more room and much less overlapping AA to deal with, and the added bonus of destroyed AA mounts on most of the remaining ships.  This is your time to play more aggressively, but you've still got to use common sense.  The key is you can't just mindlessly farm damage anymore.  You have to be more selective and make the attacks you do get count.  Good luck. 

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@Kami I concur! This garbage CV Rebork is despicable. It has been from the start and no matter what you do with the current Wylie Coyote flying bullets is going to fix that. A CV Commander that did not use all he had to strike an enemy task force would be court marshalled.

See that this and the other complaints get to the CEO!

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Well I'm on the other side of the fence I feel like AA is just fine in fact I'm a lot happier about it:cap_rambo:

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14 minutes ago, Slimeball91 said:

You can follow the advice some are giving and quit, or you can stick it out and try to get better.  Right now the expectations for CVs have changed.  You used to be able to make attacks on ships with few plane losses.  Not anymore, as you learned.  The expectation now is you more or less only get one good attack run out of your squadron.  This is especially true in the early game.  Be more selective in your targeting early, and only make one attack run.  As the match goes on the ships will thin out and you'll have more room and much less overlapping AA to deal with, and the added bonus of destroyed AA mounts on most of the remaining ships.  This is your time to play more aggressively, but you've still got to use common sense.  The key is you can't just mindlessly farm damage anymore.  You have to be more selective and make the attacks you do get count.  Good luck. 

OP - AA is broke AF right now....  ....And one of the most outspoken anti CV critics on these forums giving advice on how to play CVs is truly hilarious!     He has literally played 1 game in a CV...pre rework and hasn't played at all in months...   Forums are a riot! 

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7 minutes ago, RA6E_ said:

OP - AA is broke AF right now....  ....And one of the most outspoken anti CV critics on these forums giving advice on how to play CVs is truly hilarious!     He has literally played 1 game in a CV...pre rework and hasn't played at all in months...   Forums are a riot! 

So what's your advice, quit?  This is most likely what AA is going to be from now on so you better be learn to play with how it is, or just quit.  The CV players that aren't quitting are doing exactly what I suggested.  Many of them are doing just fine.

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Probably no, they will going nerf the AA or over-buff the cv to make people play again... then nerf again, its a cycle. it always like that sinse closed beta.

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3 minutes ago, Slimeball91 said:

So what's your advice, quit?  This is most likely what AA is going to be from now on so you better be learn to play with how it is, or just quit.  The CV players that aren't quitting are doing exactly what I suggested.  Many of them are doing just fine.

My advice...visit every single post about CVs and let everyone know how terrible they are for your feels...sooner or later you can though sheer volume,  portray the outrage that the entire player base apparently feels about it and perhaps effect change. I seriously doubt that WG checks forum posts vs games played to even determine if a poster actually even really plays their game or just haunts the forums.    GG well-played

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4 minutes ago, RA6E_ said:

My advice...visit every single post about CVs and let everyone know how terrible they are for your feels...sooner or later you can though sheer volume,  portray the outrage that the entire player base apparently feels about it and perhaps effect change. I seriously doubt that WG checks forum posts vs games played to even determine if a poster actually even really plays their game or just haunts the forums.    GG well-played

So you're just bitter CVs are being brought more in line with the other ships?  Not OP anymore so you're taking your ball and going home?  Now maybe you understand what majority of players had to deal with when CVs were running wild.  

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I disagree with Slime myself, but he is genuinely offering advice. It's a [edited]-ish thing to stick to tribalism and attack him for offering genuine advice. Even if he almost literally has no experience with CV play, it's clear he's read the advice of other cv players and is trying to offer that back to someone struggling.  At least be civil.

 

CV have it tough right now. You need to know how they play and work.  And it doesn't help that even CV of the same line play different half the time.  As far as you losing squadrons, it's best to scout targets with rockets. These are probably the only option you have in the terms of weakening AA and sussing how much more aa power is left on a ship.  Some cv, like the Audacious, can have better luck against some ships with rockets once you change your perspective on them a little, but the Audacious which excels in just repeat minor rocket attacks does not play like the Furious, which is very torpedo dependent.  Ranger has almost nothing in common with it's Midway and lexington brothers either.  Ryujo can be stealthy, but has little in common with the crappy Shokaku and the Hak.  

As such, busting into CV play takes a lot of experimentation, and it's going to be maddening as the game is unfairly stacked against the CV itself.  Stealth AA for example is immensely exploited now.  

 

Here is my advice.

1. Rockets are your clay pidgeons. These guys exist purely to annoy DDs and to pepper the aa mounts on isolated ships.  You losing whole squadrons is just how it goes, Im afraid, even if you destroy a few mounts.  However even a few lost mounts can make a difference.  Raid isolated high hp targets with rockets, 2-4 planes at most.  With how dps now focuses a plane, if you can get island cover, use it.  I just send 2 rockets at once now. After a raid of rockets, Depending on how many mounts I hit, I will then send dives.  Dives tend to do better at killing mounts, second to rockets in this regard, with level bombers being particularly good in this regard due to the bomb count.

2. Dives are not your ace.  Even for the US line.  You are slow, have to literally fly into the closest AA aura with no reduction, and you have no heal.  It is absolutely [edited], but what can we do.  Dives have varying levels of use, with AP hurting big ships and HE setting fires and Yes, damaging AA mounts. All very important.  Use these guys near islands and about anywhere you can do damage.  Make sure to fly frequently in a wavey motion. You want the flak to miss as much as you can.   Also make your approaches behind the enemy ships and from the sides.  Dives can reorient like crazy for their drops, so you dont have to be lined up a mile away.  Just get close, get behind, and twist while the planes ascend to start the dive.  It will take a little practice but you will get a hang of it.

3. Torpedos, boy this is a mixed bag. These are probably your most consistent damaging tools. Easily the most effective.  RN probably have the best, due to drops, and how you can drop these even on the noses of battleships. Damage is good too.  Japan's are also strong being very fast, though with how fragile these planes are, you might not see those pilots again, even if they took no damage what so ever before the drop due to excellent island use.  DPS is so high these guys never really make it back sometimes. Its better though now then it was with the rando system.

 

Tips and tricks

1. Pre drop. You NEVER want to send all the planes in till late game.  Any that you have left post drop will take heavy damage just for existing.  It is far better to drop nearly all your planes save the attack wave, maybe 2.  I use 1 now. I may lose all the planes, but at least I only lose 3 instead of 6.  Or, with the RN's rockets for example, I only lose 1, allowing repeated attacks with minimal losses. Someone cussed me out for infinite planes when really I just gave him no clouds of planes to shoot at.

2. Islands. These bad boys can be life or death for some squadrons. A lot of DDs and ships hide behind them too.  What I like to do is round them.  I start a attack run even if I see nothing, and twist the planes around the Island's sea cliff.  I will have the attack ready when that DD is revealed, something I have done to devastating effect.  Even with impunity.  Skill and tactics matter to a CV as much as a DD or some cruisers. You only get one shot, and you have the initiative to avoid losing planes, or when and where to strike. You HAVE to use this to make it.

3.  Help your sometimes neighborly DD.  I can't begin to describe what a difference a DD and CV working together can make.  CV can give DDs early warning on ships and other DD to such effect.  I worked two nights ago with 4 of my teams DDs.  The result was I tipped each of their knife fights in my favor, and we coordinated on enemy positions with me giving tactical advice on what was a bad approach or not. The result was we sank 4 of their DDs and lost none of our own, with minimal rocket loss to my audacious.  We got flanked, but our DDs ran havoc for the enemy cruisers.   DD players can be damn toxic at times, but when you get one willing to work with you, Cv and DD players are  a match made in heaven, perhaps more synergistic then any other class pairing in the game. It only sucks that we can't dispatch effective cas support to them at times.  Though you can certainly try.

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Well, I am reasonably happy with the current state of CVs. AA damage is only annoying if you play against ships that are of a higher tier, but other ships have similar problems then. I think what needs to be fixed is the matching algorithm. In particular, tier VI vs VIII, and tier VIII vs X means you can just hide and wait for a leftover. The problem with CV airplanes is that you see many ships so late that you easily run into AA fire before you know it. That could be fixed by increasing the detection range.

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1 hour ago, Slimeball91 said:

So what's your advice, quit?  This is most likely what AA is going to be from now on so you better be learn to play with how it is, or just quit.  The CV players that aren't quitting are doing exactly what I suggested.  Many of them are doing just fine.

The advice is to stop playing CVs for a while.

WG is balancing based on population, not performance. There is no point in just feeding the fools at Development data that reinforces their rose colored glasses view of the world.

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The return of AI CVs demonstrated what I knew already - AA is broke.  I was zipping around in my T6 IJN DDs today and every attempt by the AI to attack me resulted in 100% plane loss. A t6 DD with 20+ plane kills and zero damage taken. 

So ditto. 

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You cant do nothing even if you dodge the flak, stop playing them until they fix this stupid mess, fyi they are working on a new AA buff that maybe goes live in the next patch, it can literally delete 1/3 of the squad in less than a sec, are you really willing to feed the data they need?

And no, im not a cv hater, thats exactly why i advice you stop playing them because the "people" in charge of balancing the game ironically dont play it

Screenshot_2019-07-24-21-09-44-1.png

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I see more people with little to no games played in a CV... are being silly and commenting on CV balancing issues again?

That's like saying: "I'm a Nuclear Physicist! I never made it out of High-School, University, ever worked in the industry or have any experience on the job. My word is LEGIT."

 

 

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36 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

The advice is to stop playing CVs for a while.

WG is balancing based on population, not performance. There is no point in just feeding the fools at Development data that reinforces their rose colored glasses view of the world.

Sure you can stop playing and hope this makes WG buff CVs, however... It's not likely to ever go back to what it was before 8.4.  What we have for AA now is what its going to be.  WG might buff plane HP, or regen rates some but that's probably it.  Meaningful planes losses are the new standard (as it should have always been). 

6 minutes ago, taberuco said:

You cant do nothing even if you dodge the flak, stop playing them until they fix this stupid mess, fyi they are working on a new AA buff that maybe goes live in the next patch, it can literally delete 1/3 of the squad in less than a sec, are you really willing to feed the data they need?

Fake news, don't believe this non-sense. 

Priority sector is going to be changed where it does a burst of damage when activated.  The number for the  damage burst was listed as 5% (assigned per class) of the total HP of the squadron.  God only knows what the "assigned per class" means.  AA will gradually ramp up when the sector is activated and only last for a certain time, then goes on a cooldown.  We don't know enough details to say this is going to be a buff to AA or not.  With a cooldown the new priority sector might be nerfed compared to old priority sector that could stay active all the time.  We will have to wait and see.  In the mean time let's not spread fake news.   

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I am not really sure "stop playing them" is the greatest advice (may be wrong)

I mostly just play tier 6 CVs so I dont really know what tier 8-10 is like if you play those (I have kaga but I have not touched it in some time) 

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56 minutes ago, Slimeball91 said:

Sure you can stop playing and hope this makes WG buff CVs, however... It's not likely to ever go back to what it was before 8.4.  What we have for AA now is what its going to be.  WG might buff plane HP, or regen rates some but that's probably it.  Meaningful planes losses are the new standard (as it should have always been). 

I don't want it to go back to 0.8.4.

I want the Developers to actually pay attention to the fundamental problems with AA and plane interactions and actually address them.

I'm ok with taking acceptable losses of planes. That's not the issue.

The issue is WG's statements that the changes in 0.8.5 and 0.8.6 would have negligible impact on plane losses...when it was painfully obvious to anyone who actually understands how the AA system in the rework ACTUALLY WORKS that WG development staff was and is either lying or is so totally incompetent that they don't understand their own AA system.

What confidence is that supposed to engender in me? At this point I've resigned myself to being ignored and simply applying sledgehammer 'balancing' right back. I don't have to play garbage if that's what they want me to play.

...and I sure as hell won't recommend this game as a good experience for new players.

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1 hour ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

I don't want it to go back to 0.8.4.

I want the Developers to actually pay attention to the fundamental problems with AA and plane interactions and actually address them.

I'm ok with taking acceptable losses of planes. That's not the issue.

The issue is WG's statements that the changes in 0.8.5 and 0.8.6 would have negligible impact on plane losses...when it was painfully obvious to anyone who actually understands how the AA system in the rework ACTUALLY WORKS that WG development staff was and is either lying or is so totally incompetent that they don't understand their own AA system.

What confidence is that supposed to engender in me? At this point I've resigned myself to being ignored and simply applying sledgehammer 'balancing' right back. I don't have to play garbage if that's what they want me to play.

...and I sure as hell won't recommend this game as a good experience for new players.

No doubt WarGaming has something in the works. They're pretty good at addressing issues. For anybody who doesn't agree... log into Steam and buy an Early Access title for a quick attitude adjustment...

Most likely what they are doing right now is collecting data. They issued a survey regarding CV's and AA last week asking for opinions. Obviously the forums are on fire with threads fighting for/against AA changes etc, etc, and they're monitoring the situation. Regardless of what WoWs whiney player base thinks...

I've heard rumors from AA sector reinforcement changes, to captains perk buffs, to squadron HP and regeneration tweaks. But nobody knows for sure what is planned, however I can guarantee we haven't seen the end of the adjustments. There's no way in hell they'll leave AA in such an over-powered state at high tiers.

The very interesting part is that survey last week was particularly asking about flak bursts. Which suggests they're thinking of nerfing them...

Edited by ElectroVeeDub

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7 hours ago, Martymart1976 said:

First, my whole squadron seems to get knocked out of the air with little or no damage caused to the ship.  I single out ships isolated alone.  I attack ships with little/bad AA fire.  Yes I know about dodging the flak bursts, but I can only pull off about one good run before my whole flight is dead.  What am I doing wrong or is the AA just that broken?  Keeping my CVs in port for a bit...

4k+ battles... lol this has to be trollery. no way some one with this many battles doesn't know CV's are in WG's garbage bin right now.

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