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AvengerBak

Manual Seconadires

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Recently I was wondering why secondaries could not be controlled manually? I would love to be able to while in my battleship manually control my secondary guns under some circumstances. Between salvos you could control them to increase accuracy, then let them go back to AI controlled while firing main guns. Even if the accuracy wasn't vastly improved it would at least allow you to feel like you are doing something rather then just letting it all be RNG. I would especially like this under those circumstances when a destroyer is on the other side of your main guns, you could now feel like you are actually the one doing dmg to him instead of how it currently is, even when you do dmg it doesn't feel substantial since is all done automatically.

Maybe this isn't a great idea, but I just wanted to share it.

 

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Well you do know you can manually target your secondaries, right? Especially helpful when multiple targets are all within range and your ship is not firing on the target you want it to hit. 

I believe the Ctrl and LMB does the job. 

Anything more than that is too much effort for the standard potatoplayer. 

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Secondaries as a whole could use some TLC. They're just bland and point-consuming. Personally, I never spec fully for secondaries. Massachusetts and Georgia I just pretend like they have none, and Germans I may throw out the range to that 11km, but not mess with MF or IFHE

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I never use the 4pt Manual Secondaries skill.  I do designate targets frequently though.  I like the secondaries going off to warn me some DD is sneaking up my butt.

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13 minutes ago, Herr_Reitz said:

Well you do know you can manually target your secondaries, right? Especially helpful when multiple targets are all within range and your ship is not firing on the target you want it to hit. 

I believe the Ctrl and LMB does the job. 

Anything more than that is too much effort for the standard potatoplayer. 

Yeah I do that, but it never feels like it does much. I just want more control. 

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Hi avenger 

    Manual secondaries can be had! There is a captain skill for this, great for that German national flavor of great secondaries that kinda gets handed out to other nations at WG discretion. 

    There is a 4 point skill that allows you to designate a Target for your secondaries, so they aren't firing at whatever they feel like. 

    This also greatly increases their accuracy. 

    Note that once you have this skill if a sneaky destroyer gets within torps range and you don't manual select you won't fire at it. You must manually select for all secondary targets, a point I wasn't aware of when I took it lol. 

   To do this binocular view an enemy, hold the Ctrl button down, this frees the mouse. With the mouse not the aiming reticle click on the ship left click until there's a big A above it. Now when Target is in range of your secondaries they will fire on it specifically and you can have a tea party. 

     A for secondary target......ok. 

      Hope this helps.

      Btw what is your favorite secondary ship 😁

Edited by grorg

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Just curious, have you guys who said you don't bother with the secondary skills ever actually trained them?  Asking because I get the Close Quarters Expert achievement almost every time I play my German BBs when ships come in their range.  And that's often since I get close and personal most times in my German BBs. I always have an over abundance of the signals from the Close Quarters Expert achievement rewards. Also, the secondaries tend to scare DDs away when you manually target them.  I think the positives far outweigh the negatives on ships that have the secondary bonuses.

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Manual secondaries on Mass, Georgia, Bis, etc. are awesome. The main guns on Mass particularly aren't accurate enough at range to use them reliably. Since you need to get in close anyway, train up those secondary skills and tear things up! In 2ndary range your main guns are super-blappers as well. There's really no point to playing Mass without going the 2ndary route. It was designed to be played that way. 

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11 minutes ago, Croda said:

Manual secondaries on Mass, Georgia, Bis, etc. are awesome. The main guns on Mass particularly aren't accurate enough at range to use them reliably. Since you need to get in close anyway, train up those secondary skills and tear things up! In 2ndary range your main guns are super-blappers as well. There's really no point to playing Mass without going the 2ndary route. It was designed to be played that way. 

This.

If you’re not doing a secondary build of Massachusetts you should be playing Alabama instead.

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Control like manual aiming and press to shoot? Will make bbs too strong. (but thats also sounds really fun to play with the 18 180mm guns from a midway)

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It should be noted that the 105mm secondaries got buffed today to be able to pen 25mm (26mm after the HE pen update) without IFHE. This means they can not only pen high tier DDs without shattering, but mid tier BBs and most high tier cruisers as well. That's a pretty big deal.

It should also be noted that after the HE pen update, the 128s on GK will be able to pen 32mm without IFHE. Basically, you will never need IFHE on German BBs to make them potent. This is a huge boon to German BB captains who will have an extra 4 points to play with, allowing them to grab important skills like BOS and AR.

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1 hour ago, Colonel_Potter said:

Just curious, have you guys who said you don't bother with the secondary skills ever actually trained them?  Asking because I get the Close Quarters Expert achievement almost every time I play my German BBs when ships come in their range.  And that's often since I get close and personal most times in my German BBs. I always have an over abundance of the signals from the Close Quarters Expert achievement rewards. Also, the secondaries tend to scare DDs away when you manually target them.  I think the positives far outweigh the negatives on ships that have the secondary bonuses.

I’ve tried them during free respec events.

The problem is that it costs 4 points and comes with the pretty severe disadvantage of not firing on a ship that isn’t selected.

Its actually hilarious at times. The dispersion is reduced greatly, but the secondaries aim at the waterline. So a ship with MS will be shattering on my belt armor while my drunken monkey gunners are at least hitting sections that can be dealt HE damage.

Then you have the players who have to choose between having secondaries on me or on the BB they are fighting. They focus me, i disengage. Often they never re-target the secondaries, saving my teams BB a bunch of damage. Sometimes they do, then I re-engage. They have to stop and switch again to me or, as often happens, they don’t and I get to chew on them with no threat of secondaries. UK DD are good at this because of the short smokes.

I find that the points are better spent on other things.

Yes you will sometimes get some hilarious games. You’ll also get plenty where you never have the chance to use that skill or even get screwed because of it.

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13 minutes ago, HazardDrake said:

I’ve tried them during free respec events.

The problem is that it costs 4 points and comes with the pretty severe disadvantage of not firing on a ship that isn’t selected.

My testing has shown that MS triples your average hit rate on secondaries.

To your point, if they player doesn't manage secondary targeting effectively, it can be a problem.  But if you are managing your secondaries well, it makes them much more lethal.

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25 minutes ago, KaptainKaybe said:

It should be noted that the 105mm secondaries got buffed today to be able to pen 25mm (26mm after the HE pen update) without IFHE. This means they can not only pen high tier DDs without shattering, but mid tier BBs and most high tier cruisers as well. That's a pretty big deal.

It should also be noted that after the HE pen update, the 128s on GK will be able to pen 32mm without IFHE. Basically, you will never need IFHE on German BBs to make them potent. This is a huge boon to German BB captains who will have an extra 4 points to play with, allowing them to grab important skills like BOS and AR.

Wow, I hadn't even really thought about GK in terms of that change.  That's a big benefit!

Was that HE pen change effective with 8.6, or with the new IFHE mechanics they are testing?

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1 minute ago, TheDreadnought said:

Wow, I hadn't even really thought about GK in terms of that change.  That's a big benefit!

Was that HE pen change effective with 8.6, or with the new IFHE mechanics they are testing?

The 105s were buffed today. But the HE pen that's changing pen to equal rather than equal +1 is happening at a later time once the IFHE changes go live.

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3 minutes ago, KaptainKaybe said:

The 105s were buffed today. But the HE pen that's changing pen to equal rather than equal +1 is happening at a later time once the IFHE changes go live.

Ok, good to know.  Thanks!

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3 minutes ago, TheDreadnought said:

My testing has shown that MS triples your average hit rate on secondaries.

To your point, if they player doesn't manage secondary targeting effectively, it can be a problem.  But if you are managing your secondaries well, it makes them much more lethal.

Great. What skills don’t you have because of that?

“Managing your secondaries well” is also a lot easier said than done. Especially when you have issues like firing arcs to take into consideration. I play my Mass a lot and I still don’t have a good grasp of the firing angles they have.

As well as the problem from that HE spamming Nagato wiping an entire side of secondaries off your ship if you don’t take the secondary armaments mod, something many people don’t/won’t do. (I do on secondary ships.)

I do this a lot in my French BBs. A couple HE salvos on angled ships to specifically to wreck secondaries on ships with capable ones.

Can some people make it work, sure. Is it a good default build? Not really IMHO.

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20 minutes ago, KaptainKaybe said:

The 105s were buffed today. But the HE pen that's changing pen to equal rather than equal +1 is happening at a later time once the IFHE changes go live.

Did the French 100mm guns ever get changed? I forget if they did or not. 

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1 minute ago, HazardDrake said:

Did the French 100mm guns ever get changed? I forget if they did or not. 

They have not.

I think these changes to German BB secondaries is meant to highlight the fact that these are supposed to be secondary guns brawlers. While French BBs have good secondaries, they do not normally brawl as their thin armor can get them melted by sustained HE fire.

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1 hour ago, HyenaHiena said:

Control like manual aiming and press to shoot? Will make bbs too strong. 

Not really. The only difference between manual aiming and the ctrl-click we have now, is that the AI always aims at the centre of the ship, whereas with truly manual, you could start fires in different locations.

Having said that, the AI uses aim assist, so is better at aiming than most players. And the dispersion means that being able to target different areas of the ship is largely irrelevant.

Not only that, but giving players something else to juggle means a wider skill gap.

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7 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

Not really. The only difference between manual aiming and the ctrl-click we have now, is that the AI always aims at the centre of the ship, whereas with truly manual, you could start fires in different locations.

Having said that, the AI uses aim assist, so is better at aiming than most players. And the dispersion means that being able to target different areas of the ship is largely irrelevant.

Not only that, but giving players something else to juggle means a wider skill gap. 

" is better at aiming than most players " ok i laugh for that (what is true btw).

 

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42 minutes ago, HazardDrake said:

Great. What skills don’t you have because of that?

“Managing your secondaries well” is also a lot easier said than done. Especially when you have issues like firing arcs to take into consideration. I play my Mass a lot and I still don’t have a good grasp of the firing angles they have.

As well as the problem from that HE spamming Nagato wiping an entire side of secondaries off your ship if you don’t take the secondary armaments mod, something many people don’t/won’t do. (I do on secondary ships.)

I do this a lot in my French BBs. A couple HE salvos on angled ships to specifically to wreck secondaries on ships with capable ones.

Can some people make it work, sure. Is it a good default build? Not really IMHO.

I think my Massachusetts has my highest average damage of any ship I play.  So whatever skills I'm missing, they're not hurting anything.

Everybody should be taking the Secondary Armaments mod on almost all their battleships.  Why?  Have you seen how much damage you take from losing AA mounts and such?  It's an excellent damage prevention mod.

For Massachusetts its the ONLY build worth running.   Again, if you're not running a Mass secondary-focused build, you're better off playing Alabama for the increased main battery accuracy.   

I will also say that supposedly Alabama and Massachusetts have the same armor scheme, but the Mass just seems squishier than the Alabama to me for some reason.  But could just be my imagination.

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I asked the same question not long ago in regards to getting it for my Richelieu. The consensus seemed to be that it was worthwhile getting.

 

Edited by Aurora_7

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I should clarify I know there is a skill for manual secondary guns, I don't mean that. I want to be able to actually aim and shoot my secondaries myself. 

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