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Researchable Italian tier I-X cruisers, as well as Italian Premium tier V cruiser Genova and Italian tier X destroyer Paolo Emilio will be added to the game in the upcoming super test session.

Italian cruisers have special consumable "Fuel Smokes", unique ammunition - semi-armor piercing shells, good maneuverability and a high salvo weight with long reload time.

Semi-armor piercing shells have the features of two types of shells at once:

  • Semi-armor piercing shells can ricochet, but the angles of the ricochet are more comfortable than those of armor piercing shells (60-85°);
  • For semi-armor piercing shells, the 14.3-caliber rule will apply;
  • If the ricochet does not happen, the mechanics of semi-armor piercing shells is similar to high explosive ones;
  • Semi-armor piercing shells don't have over penetrations;
  • Can't cause a fire;
  • Damage and penetration is better than high explosive shells;
  • Semi-armor piercing shells deal only 10% of their damage to destroyers.

Semi-armor piercing shells are designed to deal stable high damage when armor piercing shells are not effective.

Fuel smokes are almost similar to a usual smoke generator, but a ship equipped with fuel smokes is able to be concealed at full speed. Therefore, Italian cruisers will be able to hide from enemy ships or aircraft, without sacrificing speed and the ability to maneuver. Fuel smokes last from 25 to 40 seconds and disperse in 10 seconds.

Italian cruisers are equipped with a small number of torpedoes with not the highest damage and speed, but with good range, low visibility and short reload time. 

 

We also want to comment on the situation with the names of Italian cruisers. It is indeed true that Italian heavy cruisers of 1920-1930 were named after the cities conquered in WWI. However, from what we see, Italians specifically chose the cities that had significant value – either strategic or ideologic. Most of such symbolic names were all used up for historic ships already – like Trento, Fiume, Zara, Pola, Gorizia and Bolzano. Since no further heavy cruisers were actually built after Bolzano, it’s difficult to state with certainty what names they would have received.

We did consider a couple of options for new ship names, and we decided to go on with the “signature” Italian cities for their significance and strong association with Italy, even if they do not follow the tradition above. Hence, we have Milano, Torino, Verona and Genova. We also reserved Venezia for future possible ships.

It's worth mentioning that Regia Marina did use such Italian city names before – if we look at armored cruisers of the 1910s and light cruisers of the 1920s - Pisa, Taranto, Bari, etc. So, this naming concept is not entirely made up or erroneous, it was used already.

We thank you for your contributions and discussion. 

 

Italian cruiser Eritrea, tier I

Hit points – 8100. Plating - 6 mm. semi-AP

Main battery - 2x2 120 mm. Firing range - 9.9 km. Maximum HE shell damage – 850. Chance to cause fire – 6%. Reload time - 4.5 s. 180 degree turn time - 22.5 s. Maximum dispersion - 90 m. HE initial velocity - 750 m/s. Sigma – 2.00.

Maximum speed - 20.0 kt. Turning circle radius - 310 m. Rudder shift time – 5.7 s. Surface detectability – 6.8 km. Air detectability – 7.1 km. Detectability after firing main guns in smoke  – 2.4 km.

Available consumables:

1 slot - Damage Control Party.

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Italian cruiser Nino Bixio, tier II

Hit points – 16600. Plating - 6 mm.

Main battery - 8x1 120 mm. Firing range - 11.4 km. Maximum semi-AP shell damage - 2850. Maximum AP shell damage - 2100. Reload time - 13 s. 180 degree turn time - 22.5 s. Maximum dispersion - 111 m. Semi-AP initial velocity - 840 m/s. AP initial velocity - 850 m/s. Sigma – 2.00.

Maximum speed - 26.8 kt. Turning circle radius - 480 m. Rudder shift time – 4.8 s. Surface detectability – 8.1 km. Air detectability – 4.0 km. Detectability after firing main guns in smoke  – 2.9 km.

Available consumables:

1 slot - Damage Control Party.

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Italian cruiser Taranto, tier III

Hit points – 19600. Plating - 6 mm.

Main battery - 7x1 150 mm. Firing range - 10.6 km. Maximum Semi-AP shell damage - 3550. Maximum AP shell damage - 3700. Reload time - 13 s. 180 degree turn time - 25.7 s. Maximum dispersion - 106 m. Semi-AP initial velocity - 835 m/s. AP initial velocity - 835 m/s. Sigma – 2.00.

Torpedo tubes - 2x2 533 mm. Maximum damage - 9067. Range - 8.0 km. Speed - 51 kt. Reload time - 47 s. Launcher 180 degree turn time – 7.2 s. Torpedo detectability - 1.0 km.

AA defense:

2x1 76.2 mm.

AA defense mid-range: number of explosions in a salvo - 1, damage within an explosion - 210, continuous damage per second - 18, hit probability - 74 %, action zone 1.0-3.0 km;

Maximum speed - 28.2 kt. Turning circle radius - 450 m. Rudder shift time – 5.7 s. Surface detectability – 9.4 km. Air detectability – 4.0 km. Detectability after firing main guns in smoke  – 4.1 km.

Available consumables:

1 slot - Damage Control Party.

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Italian cruiser Alberto di Giussano, tier IV

Hit points – 24000. Plating - 10 mm.

Main battery - 4x2 152 mm. Firing range - 15.6 km. Maximum semi-AP shell damage - 3850. Maximum AP shell damage - 3000. Reload time - 15 s. 180 degree turn time - 25.7 s. Maximum dispersion - 140 m. Semi-AP initial velocity - 950 m/s. AP initial velocity - 850 m/s. Sigma – 2.00.

Torpedo tubes - 2x2 533 mm. Maximum damage - 9067. Range - 8.0 km. Speed - 51 kt. Reload time - 47 s. Launcher 180 degree turn time – 7.2 s. Torpedo detectability - 1.0 km.

AA defense:

2x1 20.0 mm, 4x2 20.0 mm, 3x2 100.0 mm.

AA defense short-range: continuous damage per second - 88, hit probability - 72 %, action zone 0.1-1.5 km;

AA defense long-range: number of explosions in a salvo - 1, damage within an explosion - 350, continuous damage per second - 35, hit probability - 77 %, action zone 1.5-4.6 km;

Maximum speed - 36.5 kt. Turning circle radius - 580 m. Rudder shift time – 7.0 s. Surface detectability – 11.1 km. Air detectability – 4.0 km. Detectability after firing main guns in smoke  – 5.1 km.

Available consumables:

1 slot - Damage Control Party.

2 slot - Fighter.

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Italian cruiser Raimondo Montecuccoli, tier V

Hit points – 26500. Plating - 13 mm.

Main battery - 4x2 152 mm. Firing range - 14.9 km. Maximum Semi-AP shell damage - 3850. Maximum AP shell damage - 3000. Reload time - 13 s. 180 degree turn time - 30 s. Maximum dispersion - 136 m. Semi-AP initial velocity - 950 m/s. AP initial velocity - 850 m/s. Sigma – 2.00.

Torpedo tubes - 2x2 533 mm. Maximum damage - 12667. Range - 10.0 km. Speed - 51 kt. Reload time - 47 s.  Launcher 180 degree turn time – 7.2 s. Torpedo detectability - 1.0 km.

AA defense:

10x1 20.0 mm, 3x2 100.0 mm, 4x2 37.0 mm.

AA defense short-range: continuous damage per second - 158, hit probability - 74 %, action zone 0.1-1.5 km;

AA defense mid-range: number of explosions in a salvo - 3, damage within an explosion - 350, continuous damage per second - 88, hit probability - 79 %, action zone 1.5-3.5 km;

AA defense long-range: number of explosions in a salvo - 1, damage within an explosion - 490, continuous damage per second - 35, hit probability - 79 %, action zone 3.5-4.6 km;

Maximum speed - 37.0 kt. Turning circle radius - 610 m. Rudder shift time – 7.6 s. Surface detectability – 11.6 km. Air detectability – 6.6 km. Detectability after firing main guns in smoke  – 5.5 km.

Available consumables:

1 slot - Damage Control Party.

2 slot - Fuel Smokes (Duration time 25 s; Dispersion time 10 s; Reload time 240 (180) s; Charges 1 (2); Radius 510.0 m).

3 slot - Fighter / Spotting Aircraft.

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Italian cruiser Trento, tier VI

Hit points – 34500. Plating - 16 mm.

Main battery - 4x2 203 mm. Firing range - 16.9 km. Maximum semi-AP shell damage - 4800. Maximum AP shell damage - 4700. Reload time - 15 s. 180 degree turn time - 25.7 s. Maximum dispersion - 150 m. Semi-AP initial velocity - 840 m/s. AP initial velocity - 840 m/s. Sigma – 2.00.

Torpedo tubes - 2x3 533 mm. Maximum damage - 12667. Range - 12.0 km. Speed - 51 kt. Reload time - 71 s.  Launcher 180 degree turn time – 7.2 s. Torpedo detectability - 1.0 km.

AA defense:

10x2 20.0 mm, 4x2 37.0 mm, 6x2 100.0 mm, 4x2 13.2 mm.

AA defense short-range: continuous damage per second - 193, hit probability - 77 %, action zone 0.1-1.5 km;

AA defense mid-range: number of explosions in a salvo - 3, damage within an explosion - 490, continuous damage per second - 88, hit probability - 81 %, action zone 1.5-3.5 km;

AA defense long-range: number of explosions in a salvo - 2, damage within an explosion - 700, continuous damage per second - 53, hit probability - 81 %, action zone 3.5-4.6 km;

Maximum speed - 35.0 kt. Turning circle radius - 630 m. Rudder shift time – 9.5 s. Surface detectability – 14.5 km. Air detectability – 7.9 km. Detectability after firing main guns in smoke  – 8.7 km.

Available consumables:

1 slot - Damage Control Party.

2 slot - Fuel Smokes (Duration time 25 s; Dispersion time 10 s; Reload time 240 (180) s; Charges 1 (2); Radius 510.0 m).

3 slot - Fighter / Spotting Aircraft.

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Italian cruiser Zara, tier VII

Hit points – 37100. Plating - 16 mm.

Main battery - 4x2 203 mm. Firing range - 15.8 km. Maximum semi-AP shell damage - 5050. Maximum AP shell damage - 4800. Reload time - 15 s. 180 degree turn time - 25.7 s. Maximum dispersion - 142 m. Semi-AP initial velocity - 900 m/s. AP initial velocity - 900 m/s. Sigma – 2.00.

Torpedo tubes - 2x3 533 mm. Maximum damage - 12667. Range - 12.0 km. Speed - 51 kt. Reload time - 71 s.  Launcher 180 degree turn time – 7.2 s. Torpedo detectability - 1.0 km.

AA defense:

10x1 20.0 mm, 4x2 20.0 mm, 6x2 37.0 mm, 6x2 100.0 mm.

AA defense short-range: continuous damage per second - 158, hit probability - 79 %, action zone 0.1-1.5 km;

AA defense mid-range: number of explosions in a salvo - 3, damage within an explosion - 630, continuous damage per second - 140, hit probability - 83 %, action zone 1.5-3.5 km;

AA defense long-range: number of explosions in a salvo - 2, damage within an explosion - 840, continuous damage per second - 53, hit probability - 83 %, action zone 3.5-4.6 km;

Maximum speed - 32.0 kt. Turning circle radius - 580 m. Rudder shift time – 9.8 s. Surface detectability – 14.0 km. Air detectability – 7.5 km. Detectability after firing main guns in smoke  – 8.3 km.

Available consumables:

1 slot - Damage Control Party.

2 slot - Fuel Smokes (Duration time 25 s; Dispersion time 10 s; Reload time 240 (180) s; Charges 1 (2); Radius 510.0 m).

3 slot - Fighter / Spotting Aircraft.

7.thumb.jpg.03d55a76110a5cc544cc93a67c9095ad.jpg

 

Italian cruiser Verona, tier VIII

Hit points – 42800. Plating - 25 mm.

Main battery - 3x3 203 mm. Firing range - 15.3 km. Maximum semi-AP shell damage - 5200. Maximum AP shell damage - 4900. Reload time - 16 s. 180 degree turn time - 25.7 s. Maximum dispersion - 139 m. Semi-AP initial velocity - 950 m/s. AP initial velocity - 910 m/s. Sigma – 2.00.

Torpedo tubes - 2x4 533 mm. Maximum damage - 12667. Range - 12.0 km. Speed - 51 kt. Reload time - 95 s.  Launcher 180 degree turn time – 7.2 s. Torpedo detectability - 1.0 km.

AA defense:

6x1 65.0 mm, 12x6 20.0 mm, 12x1 90.0 mm.

AA defense short-range: continuous damage per second - 350, hit probability - 81 %, action zone 0.1-1.5 km;

AA defense mid-range: number of explosions in a salvo - 3, damage within an explosion - 910, continuous damage per second - 140, hit probability - 85 %, action zone 1.5-3.7 km;

AA defense long-range: number of explosions in a salvo - 6, damage within an explosion - 1050, continuous damage per second - 140, hit probability - 85 %, action zone 3.7-4.6 km;

Maximum speed - 37.0 kt. Turning circle radius - 680 m. Rudder shift time – 11.0 s. Surface detectability – 14.4 km. Air detectability – 9.5 km. Detectability after firing main guns in smoke  – 8.7 km.

Available consumables:

1 slot - Damage Control Party.

2 slot - Fuel Smokes (Duration time 40 s; Dispersion time 10 s; Reload time 240 (180) s; Charges 1 (2); Radius 510.0 m).

3 slot - Fighter / Spotting Aircraft.

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Italian cruiser Torino, tier IX

Hit points – 44800. Plating - 25 mm.

Main battery - 4x3 203 mm. Firing range - 16.7 km. Maximum semi-AP shell damage - 5200. Maximum AP shell damage - 4900. Reload time - 20 s. 180 degree turn time - 25.7 s. Maximum dispersion - 148 m. Semi-AP initial velocity - 950 m/s. AP initial velocity - 910 m/s. Sigma – 2.05.

Torpedo tubes - 2x4 533 mm. Maximum damage - 13900. Range - 13.5 km. Speed - 56 kt. Reload time - 95 s.  Launcher 180 degree turn time – 7.2 s. Torpedo detectability - 1.1 km.

AA defense:

8x1 65.0 mm, 16x2 37.0 mm, 12x1 90.0 mm.

AA defense mid-range: number of explosions in a salvo - 11, damage within an explosion - 980, continuous damage per second - 526, hit probability - 88 %, action zone 1.0-3.7 km;

AA defense long-range: number of explosions in a salvo - 6, damage within an explosion - 1260, continuous damage per second - 158, hit probability - 88 %, action zone 3.7-4.6 km;

Maximum speed - 36.7 kt. Turning circle radius - 730 m. Rudder shift time – 10.8 s. Surface detectability – 15.5 km. Air detectability – 10.2 km. Detectability after firing main guns in smoke  – 9.7 km.

Available consumables:

1 slot - Damage Control Party.

2 slot - Fuel Smokes (Duration time 40 s; Dispersion time 10 s; Reload time 240 (180) s; Charges 1 (2); Radius 510.0 m).

3 slot - Fighter / Spotting Aircraft.

4 slot - Repair Party.

9.thumb.jpg.a2c94749095321e9ee4ae78b3ad74253.jpg

 

Italian cruiser Milano, tier X

Hit points – 51800. Plating - 25 mm.

Main battery - 5x3 203 mm. Firing range - 17.1 km. Maximum semi-AP shell damage - 5200. Maximum AP shell damage - 4900. Reload time - 20 s. 180 degree turn time - 25.7 s. Maximum dispersion - 151 m. Semi-AP initial velocity - 950 m/s. AP initial velocity - 910 m/s. Sigma – 2.05.

Torpedo tubes - 2x3 533 mm. Maximum damage - 13900. Range - 13.5 km. Speed - 56 kt. Reload time - 71 s.  Launcher 180 degree turn time – 7.2 s. Torpedo detectability - 1.1 km.

AA defense:

8x2 65.0 mm, 10x4 37.0 mm, 12x2 90.0 mm.

AA defense mid-range: number of explosions in a salvo - 12, damage within an explosion - 1120, continuous damage per second - 665, hit probability - 90 %, action zone 1.0-3.7 km;

AA defense long-range: number of explosions in a salvo - 8, damage within an explosion - 1400, continuous damage per second - 228, hit probability - 90 %, action zone 3.7-4.6 km;

Maximum speed - 36.6 kt. Turning circle radius - 760 m. Rudder shift time – 11.6 s. Surface detectability – 15.7 km. Air detectability – 11.1 km. Detectability after firing main guns in smoke  – 9.9 km.

Available consumables:

1 slot - Damage Control Party.

2 slot - Fuel Smokes (Duration time 40 s; Dispersion time 10 s; Reload time 240 (180) s; Charges 1 (2); Radius 510.0 m).

3 slot - Fighter / Spotting Aircraft.

4 slot - Repair Party.

10.thumb.jpg.ebd16d6b5185c0bc3347b56e3fdfb843.jpg

 

Italian cruiser Genova, tier V

Hit points – 30100. Plating - 13 mm.

Main battery - 4x2 203 mm. Firing range - 13.1 km. Maximum semi-AP shell damage - 4800. Maximum AP shell damage - 4700. Reload time - 20 s. 180 degree turn time - 25.7 s. Maximum dispersion - 123 m. Semi-AP initial velocity - 840 m/s. AP initial velocity - 840 m/s. Sigma – 2.00.

Torpedo tubes - 4x2 533 mm. Maximum damage - 9067. Range - 8.0 km. Speed - 51 kt. Reload time - 47 s.  Launcher 180 degree turn time – 7.2 s. Torpedo detectability - 1.0 km.

AA defense:

12x1 102.0 mm, 4x1 76.2 mm.

AA defense mid-range: number of explosions in a salvo - 1, damage within an explosion - 420, continuous damage per second - 35, hit probability - 79 %, action zone 1.0-3.0 km;

AA defense long-range: number of explosions in a salvo - 1, damage within an explosion - 490, continuous damage per second - 53, hit probability - 79 %, action zone 3.0-4.0 km;

Maximum speed - 34.5 kt. Turning circle radius - 660 m. Rudder shift time – 8.6 s. Surface detectability – 11.8 km. Air detectability – 11.1 km. Detectability after firing main guns in smoke  – 6.6 km.

Available consumables:

1 slot - Damage Control Party.

2 slot - Fighter / Spotting Aircraft.

11.thumb.jpg.4ce850599c68200df2d9d8d1b3728576.jpg

 

All stats are listed without crew and upgrade modifiers but with best available modules. The stats are subject to change during the testing.

Italian tier X destroyer Paolo Emilio is at the initial stage of testing and added to the game to test the model of the ship. Therefore, her characteristics will be announced later.

Please note that the information in the Development Blog is preliminary.

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So is the tier placement of Montecuccoli an admission that Aosta was overtiered? 

Regardless, ships look interesting, though with such alien consumables will have to wait and see them in action to have any idea.

My only disagreement is on Zara and her armouring, but what can you do with arbitrary values.

Edited by warheart1992

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19 minutes ago, Weikath said:

We also want to comment on the situation with the names of Italian cruisers. It is indeed true that Italian heavy cruisers of 1920-1930 were named after the cities conquered in WWI. However, from what we see, Italians specifically chose the cities that had significant value – either strategic or ideologic. Most of such symbolic names were all used up for historic ships already – like Trento, Fiume, Zara, Pola, Gorizia and Bolzano. Since no further heavy cruisers were actually built after Bolzano, it’s difficult to state with certainty what names they would have received.

We did consider a couple of options for new ship names, and we decided to go on with the “signature” Italian cities for their significance and strong association with Italy, even if they do not follow the tradition above. Hence, we have Milano, Torino, Verona and Genova. We also reserved Venezia for future possible ships.

It's worth mentioning that Regia Marina did use such Italian city names before – if we look at armored cruisers of the 1910s and light cruisers of the 1920s - Pisa, Taranto, Bari, etc. So, this naming concept is not entirely made up or erroneous, it was used already.

We thank you for your contributions and discussion. 

We appreciate the explanation, but there is an important distinction to be made with the earlier ships named after cities. Without fail, they were named after coastal cities or coastal areas. Ancona is far less important an Italian city than Milano, but there has never been an Italian cruiser named Milano. Brindisi, Taranto, Bari, all are considerably less important cities than Firenze, Bologna, or Torino - but again, they had cruisers named after them, while the inland cities did not.

 

Names like Pisa, Amalfi, Venezia, and Genova (which you've already used, so moot point I suppose) are far more applicable, especially since they're so important to the Italian maritime tradition - the modern naval jack uses the flags of those four merchant republics. 

 

There weren't many redeemed cities of great significance to pick from after the seven historical heavy cruisers, so the switch away from that method of naming is more than reasonable - but if you are switching to cities in general, there is already a naming tradition in place that would fit far better.

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Okay if these stats don't change, it appears that we've finally found a line that I'll skip entirely. SAP seems to be interesting, but it being ineffective against DDs, combined with the agonizing reload and lack of Hydro means that they'll be virtually worthless against them. The Fuel Smoke is interesting, but with how short it goes for and that long reload... I'll give it a chance, but so far I'm rather unimpressed.

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Well, we don't know everything but that SAP is pretty questionable.

'Doesn't overpen'. 'Does only 10% i.e. overpen damage to destroyers'. What?

That puts for instance Montecuccoli doing 480 damage/hit with SAP at 4 RPM on 8 guns - 32 RPM total, max possible 15,360 DPM against a destroyer.

In comparison, Omaha does 726/hit with HE at 8.6 RPM on 8 guns - 68.8 RPM total, max possible 49,950 DPM against a destroyer, oh and HE will never ricochet, does module damage and can start fires...

Even Konigsberg is at 40,400 HE DPM plus fires..

That is just silly.

 

16-20s reload on T8-T10, that's double the reload of the T8 Baltimore and double the reload time of the T10 Hindenburg. Why have 15 shots every 20s when you can have 12 every 10.5? Even Zao at 4.4 RPM throws more shells/minute. Is the alpha worth it?

I don't know if these ships will be balanced, but those reloads don't look much fun. It's not like SAP alpha is even that outlandish compared to the 5,900 of German AP damage. Sure the idea of chunking a superstructure for 25k is sort of exciting, but 20s reload on an 8in gun? No thanks.

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3 minutes ago, mofton said:

I don't know if these ships will be balanced, but those reloads don't look much fun. It's not like SAP alpha is even that outlandish compared to the 5,900 of German AP damage. Sure the idea of chunking a superstructure for 25k is sort of exciting, but 20s reload on an 8in gun? No thanks.

Don't forget the 20s reload on the T5. Even Furutaka has the sense to cut that down to 15.

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15 minutes ago, JediMasterDraco said:

Okay if these stats don't change, it appears that we've finally found a line that I'll skip entirely. SAP seems to be interesting, but it being ineffective against DDs, combined with the agonizing reload and lack of Hydro means that they'll be virtually worthless against them. The Fuel Smoke is interesting, but with how short it goes for and that long reload... I'll give it a chance, but so far I'm rather unimpressed.

 

7 minutes ago, mofton said:

Well, we don't know everything but that SAP is pretty questionable.

'Doesn't overpen'. 'Does only 10% i.e. overpen damage to destroyers'. What?

That puts for instance Montecuccoli doing 480 damage/hit with SAP at 4 RPM on 8 guns - 32 RPM total, max possible 15,360 DPM against a destroyer.

In comparison, Omaha does 726/hit with HE at 8.6 RPM on 8 guns - 68.8 RPM total, max possible 49,950 DPM against a destroyer, oh and HE will never ricochet, does module damage and can start fires...

Even Konigsberg is at 40,400 HE DPM plus fires..

That is just silly.

 

16-20s reload on T8-T10, that's double the reload of the T8 Baltimore and double the reload time of the T10 Hindenburg. Why have 15 shots every 20s when you can have 12 every 10.5? Even Zao at 4.4 RPM throws more shells/minute. Is the alpha worth it?

I don't know if these ships will be balanced, but those reloads don't look much fun. It's not like SAP alpha is even that outlandish compared to the 5,900 of German AP damage. Sure the idea of chunking a superstructure for 25k is sort of exciting, but 20s reload on an 8in gun? No thanks.

Not every single ship has to operate the exact same way. This way of thinking only promotes more power creeping clone lines. We have plenty of cruisers that are great against destroyers, it's ok if one doesn't fit that mold. Dont you want something new that isnt just a newer version of what we have? The French DDs are basically revamped Russian DDs. The Russian BBs are just newer versions of bow tanking BBs like Yammy. This game isnt going to retain players if they are just playing modified, reskinned versions of old ships. New playstyles and metas keep players engaged not redundant garbage over and over.

Edited by Skuggsja
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6 minutes ago, Skuggsja said:

New playstyles and metas keep players engaged not redundant garbage over and over.

The new playstyle of "don't bother hunting DDs, you're useless against them" doesn't sound engaging, just saying.

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5 minutes ago, Skuggsja said:

 

Not every single ship has to operate the exact same way. This way of thinking only promotes more power creeping clone lines. We have plenty of cruisers that are great against destroyers, it's ok if one doesn't fit that mold. Dont you want something new that isnt just a newer version of what we have? The French DDs are basically revamped Russian DDs. The Russian BBs are just newer versions of bow tanking BBs like Yammy. This game isnt going to retain players if they are just playing modified, reskinned versions of new ships.

I don't disagree, but tech tree cruisers with premium "supercruiser" firing rates isn't very seksy.

This is all subject to change, but these don't exactly jump to the top of the list.

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And I am still waiting for pola..............

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3 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

So is the tier placement of Montecuccoli an admission that Aosta was overtiered? 

I think so.  It's not really a secret that Duca D'Aosta isn't exactly the strongest cruiser at T6.  Same goes for Abruzzi.  Remove the heal from Abruzzi and the could both probably be downtiered by one each and not completely break balance.

With that being said, will SAP shells be the only ammo type, or will there still be HE and/or full AP shells to supplement the SAP armament?

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1 hour ago, Weikath said:

We did consider a couple of options for new ship names, and we decided to go on with the “signature” Italian cities for their significance and strong association with Italy, even if they do not follow the tradition above. Hence, we have Milano, Torino, Verona and Genova. We also reserved Venezia for future possible ships.

but no Napoli?

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11 minutes ago, Ace_04 said:

I think so.  It's not really a secret that Duca D'Aosta isn't exactly the strongest cruiser at T6.  Same goes for Abruzzi.  Remove the heal from Abruzzi and the could both probably be downtiered by one each and not completely break balance.

With that being said, will SAP shells be the only ammo type, or will there still be HE and/or full AP shells to supplement the SAP armament?

They have AP and SAP.

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9 minutes ago, Ace_04 said:

I think so.  It's not really a secret that Duca D'Aosta isn't exactly the strongest cruiser at T6.  Same goes for Abruzzi.  Remove the heal from Abruzzi and the could both probably be downtiered by one each and not completely break balance.

With that being said, will SAP shells be the only ammo type, or will there still be HE and/or full AP shells to supplement the SAP armament?

Of course, I forgot to add that in a way it's an official admission.

I have to wonder on the usefulness of Aosta and Abruzzi however now. Since they need IFHE and the mainline Italians obviously won't, there's gonna be some disconnect on how good they are Commander skill wise and how good buys Aosta and Abruzzi in that sense as well.

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Just now, warheart1992 said:

Of course, I forgot to add that in a way it's an official admission.

I have to wonder on the usefulness of Aosta and Abruzzi however now. Since they need IFHE and the mainline Italians obviously won't, there's gonna be some disconnect on how good they are Commander skill wise and how good buys Aosta and Abruzzi in that sense as well.

Good point.  I mean, the HE on D'Aosta and Abruzzi is so pitiful in both penetration (without IFHE) and fire chance that you almost wouldn't miss it if it wasn't there in the first place.  However, after the Giulio Cesare fiasco and potential changing of premium ships, I highly doubt we'll ever see any changes to the Duca twins (outside of a downright buff - maybe they just get SAP added as a third shell type?).

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3 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

I have to wonder on the usefulness of Aosta and Abruzzi however now. Since they need IFHE and the mainline Italians obviously won't, there's gonna be some disconnect on how good they are Commander skill wise and how good buys Aosta and Abruzzi in that sense as well.

If we look into the future on the proposed IFHE change, I'd already worry about Abruzzi even if the Italian cruiser line never appeared.

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@warheart1992

The Duca d'Aosta/Abruzzi relationship is kind of an odd one, but really Duca d'Aosta and Montecuccoli should be tier V.

 

Duca d'Aosta's AP is a lot stronger than it should be = it fires 50 kg shells at 1,000 m/s when the guns historically fired 47.5 kg shells at 850 m/s, the same with the cruisers of the Cadorna and Montecuccoli-classes (all of which had the 152/53 M1929). The Giussano-class, which had the M1926, originally used the high velocity AP, but was downrated to the same ballistics as the M1929.

Abruzzi suffers for this - she uses the much better 152/55 M1934, which fires the original 50 kg shell at 910 m/s - much better than Duca d'Aosta's guns. However, due to WG giving Duca d'Aosta's guns the ballistics of the M1926, her AP performs better - and from what I can tell the used the penetration figures of the M1934 for Duca d'Aosta's guns, so Abruzzi's guns are even weaker than they should be...

Duca d'Aosta's ballistics buff, and her other stats, allow her to be put at tier VI, but this in turn forced Abruzzi into tier VII, when she really should be tier VI - she's more a contemporary of the La Galissonnière-class than the Brooklyn-class.

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24 minutes ago, SireneRacker said:

If we look into the future on the proposed IFHE change, I'd already worry about Abruzzi even if the Italian cruiser line never appeared.

That's a whole other can of worms that I can't help but wonder when it will open and start causing some outrage.

16 minutes ago, Phoenix_jz said:

@warheart1992

The Duca d'Aosta/Abruzzi relationship is kind of an odd one, but really Duca d'Aosta and Montecuccoli should be tier V.

 

Duca d'Aosta's AP is a lot stronger than it should be = it fires 50 kg shells at 1,000 m/s when the guns historically fired 47.5 kg shells at 850 m/s, the same with the cruisers of the Cadorna and Montecuccoli-classes (all of which had the 152/53 M1929). The Giussano-class, which had the M1926, originally used the high velocity AP, but was downrated to the same ballistics as the M1929.

Abruzzi suffers for this - she uses the much better 152/55 M1934, which fires the original 50 kg shell at 910 m/s - much better than Duca d'Aosta's guns. However, due to WG giving Duca d'Aosta's guns the ballistics of the M1926, her AP performs better - and from what I can tell the used the penetration figures of the M1934 for Duca d'Aosta's guns, so Abruzzi's guns are even weaker than they should be...

Duca d'Aosta's ballistics buff, and her other stats, allow her to be put at tier VI, but this in turn forced Abruzzi into tier VII, when she really should be tier VI - she's more a contemporary of the La Galissonnière-class than the Brooklyn-class.

Thank you for the more detailed explanation.

Can't help but wonder how Abruzzi would have turned out if Tier VI, but without the Repair Party. Would have been quite a capable ship.

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I'm very mixed on this line.

 

While I am more than happy that Italian are finally coming, I don't think I love how they're being implemented. The ships themselves are lovely (cept Milanogami), but tiering, consumable, and ammo loadout are questionable. 

 

Stats as well are very dubious and sound... Difficul, to say the least, to play.

 

I'll wait till later on to see how things change from initial release to live before rendering final judgment though.

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I don't like the 20 second reloads on these ships. The obvious comparison is against Zao, which has very high AP alpha in a similar way(65k vs 73k) but has a higher RoF giving it better DPM(and likely better pen/ballistics, the damage doesn't support the 203/55 firing a very heavy shell) and an innate accuracy advantage. Zao is in most ways better as a cruiser given it is much stealthier, packs a huge torpedo punch and can stealth fire them, and even if SAP is good, Zao HE is still a high bar to clear with its huge fire chance.

SAP as a concept is interesting but I have some misgivings. It only has advantages in cases where conventional AP wouldn't work, as it doesn't out damage it due to other lines higher shell output. Which is kind of sketchy as in many cases those lines will be able to maneuver to make use of their AP against upper hulls and such(I do this plenty in my cruisers). The one big potential saving grace of SAP is if it uses conventional AP pen mechanics(i.e. krupp + USN Emperical) and doesn't have too much worse pen values than conventional AP. That would let it be used as a 60-85 shell for attacking cruiser belts and decks, which would be very strong, possibly stronger than USN 60-67.5 AP if the pen values are high enough.

In general, barring something that would make me reevaluate them, I would call the Tier IX-X underpowered and not very useful ships. Which isn't really a good look, the IX-X should be good ships for most lines. The 20 second reload drops their damage output into the trash bin, and while they have the gun stats to make their range/detection work, it isn't great. More range is also needed as the ships likely don't have enough without fitting range mod, further disadvantaging them to the IJN/MN lines. Arguably they have cat spotter, but I don't want to drop cat fighter in a ship with mediocre AA.

The Tier VII and VIII, especially if the VIII has more than 150mm armor, are fairly attractive. They don't suffer from abysmally lower DPM output, Zara is low tier for her armor and the 203/53 is very punchy for tier VII. Verona is big for VIII, and is very fast and agile which on a ship that is still well-armored at tier is likely to be hard to deal with. 37 knots is very fast, that makes her as fast as a Martel using speed boost and comparable to many destroyers at tier VIII.

I'd probably say at high tiers to reduce the firing time to the same 16 seconds as on the tier VIII. That would make them still low-DPM but much more comparable to the other cruisers at those tiers. You shouldn't have the IX get barely any more DPM than the VII and the X comparable DPM to typical tier VIII cruisers.

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SAP is promising, particularly for BBs. However, having a cruiser line with literally zero utility against DDs is a liability for the team. People thought the French and Japanese were pointless damage farmers. That is literally the only thing these Italian cruisers can do currently.

Edited by AdmiralPiett

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1 hour ago, warheart1992 said:

Of course, I forgot to add that in a way it's an official admission.

I have to wonder on the usefulness of Aosta and Abruzzi however now. Since they need IFHE and the mainline Italians obviously won't, there's gonna be some disconnect on how good they are Commander skill wise and how good buys Aosta and Abruzzi in that sense as well.

 

1 hour ago, SireneRacker said:

If we look into the future on the proposed IFHE change, I'd already worry about Abruzzi even if the Italian cruiser line never appeared.

 

1 hour ago, Phoenix_jz said:

@warheart1992

The Duca d'Aosta/Abruzzi relationship is kind of an odd one, but really Duca d'Aosta and Montecuccoli should be tier V.

 

Duca d'Aosta's AP is a lot stronger than it should be = it fires 50 kg shells at 1,000 m/s when the guns historically fired 47.5 kg shells at 850 m/s, the same with the cruisers of the Cadorna and Montecuccoli-classes (all of which had the 152/53 M1929). The Giussano-class, which had the M1926, originally used the high velocity AP, but was downrated to the same ballistics as the M1929.

Abruzzi suffers for this - she uses the much better 152/55 M1934, which fires the original 50 kg shell at 910 m/s - much better than Duca d'Aosta's guns. However, due to WG giving Duca d'Aosta's guns the ballistics of the M1926, her AP performs better - and from what I can tell the used the penetration figures of the M1934 for Duca d'Aosta's guns, so Abruzzi's guns are even weaker than they should be...

Duca d'Aosta's ballistics buff, and her other stats, allow her to be put at tier VI, but this in turn forced Abruzzi into tier VII, when she really should be tier VI - she's more a contemporary of the La Galissonnière-class than the Brooklyn-class.

 

58 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

That's a whole other can of worms that I can't help but wonder when it will open and start causing some outrage.

Thank you for the more detailed explanation.

Can't help but wonder how Abruzzi would have turned out if Tier VI, but without the Repair Party. Would have been quite a capable ship.

I just so happened to ask during the initial announcement stream of the new Italian line, "Would WG be adding SAP to Abruzzi and Asosta"

The response was no, they are balanced the way they are now. Jump to the 30:36 mark.

 

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2 minutes ago, AdmiralPiett said:

SAP is promising, particularly for BBs. However, having a cruiser line with literally zero utility against DDs is a liability for the team. People thought the French and Japanese were pointless damage farmers. That is literally the only thing these Italian cruisers can do currently.

I'd be more enthusiastic about SAP farming if USN, RN, and Stalingrad didn't exist with the potential to farm battleships for far more damage with a similar angles advantage. USN and RN can farm decks if they stand off with AP and are sneaky enough to get the 60-70 degree flanks they need to let their AP work against sides as well. And they deal way, way more DPM doing this. Stalingrad can as well, though its angles advantage is not as good. It does have standard CA accuracy with more alpha and DPM though.

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So just switch to ap on dds, that mechanic exists as more effective for many classes of ships when fighting other classes. I don’t see the big deal switching to ap instead of using sap when an Italian cruiser shoots a dd

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2 minutes ago, ditka_Fatdog said:

So just switch to ap on dds, that mechanic exists as more effective for many classes of ships when fighting other classes. I don’t see the big deal switching to ap instead of using sap when an Italian cruiser shoots a dd

AP will ricochet off the DD's hull before the DD's plating is thick enough to arm it. arccos(19mm plating / 34mm arming threshold) = 56 degrees + 8 degrees normalization = 64 degrees > 60 degrees standard AP ricochet angle.

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