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deresistance

Manual AA or AFT on BB AA builds?

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So for ships with unusable secondaries but rather good AA...   Something like a Kii etc...    Is AFT better or Manual AA?    When trying to focus on better AA all around.    The explosions seem rather random, so I would think manual AA focus would be stronger but not sure if there is some match around this or not.

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1 hour ago, deresistance said:

So for ships with unusable secondaries but rather good AA...   Something like a Kii etc...    Is AFT better or Manual AA?    When trying to focus on better AA all around.    The explosions seem rather random, so I would think manual AA focus would be stronger but not sure if there is some match around this or not.

The general consensus is that you take AA skills in this order.

 

BFT

MFCAA

AFT

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With the now relative rarity of CV in the upper tiers BFT + AFT may be more than enough. Unless some of the CV nerfs are reduced we are pretty much at RTS levels of CV players. A big part of the push back to CV's is people do not want to admit that CV are really no different than any other ship in doing damage except that AA reduces the possible damage to your ship.

As an event captain this weekend I noticed the difference in CV player ability with the unicums being the ones that smacked the hell out of you no matter what you did while against those that were not unicum level were able to be mostly shut down by proper use of AA reinforcement and maneuvering.

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Watch Flambass and you will see him constantly changing sector reinforcement as planes pass overhead. It seems that he probably has the manual AA for quick sector reinforcement. He downed over 60 planes in a recent video with a DD.

Now, you can also go a different route. My Montana has the Legendary upgrade and all the repair modules and commander skills, signals, etc. I have BFT and AFT and but the standard sector reinforcement. I tend to down most of the planes sent my way. It's hard to dodge torps in that slow BB but if I get a flood I also don't worry too much as flooding time is only 15 seconds.

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AFT only increases flak explosion damage, and we all know how reliable that is. MAA is strictly better but you have to actually switch sectors to make it work. Daunting, I know.

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The way AA sectors work is changing soon, so we don't really know how good or not MFCAA will be shortly.

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I wouldnt even bother with AA builds at the rate this is going. With 2 more drastic AA changes on the way and the popularity of the class down you might just be wasting points. I pretty much only play my CVs on Sunday now for easy Naval Battle Stars.

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5 hours ago, BrushWolf said:

As an event captain this weekend I noticed the difference in CV player ability with the unicums being the ones that smacked the hell out of you no matter what you did while against those that were not unicum level were able to be mostly shut down by proper use of AA reinforcement and maneuvering.

Which is part of why we are back to RTS CV levels, because this is the skill gap they said they were trying to eliminate, but only made it worse with changes.

It's funny that we've basically done all this nonsense to basically be where we were the same time last year - except that in some cases the CV's are worse than they were or better, and we've only given them half tech trees and a more painful [edited] grind to get to the next ship.

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I would take AFT before MFCAA, regardless of how it changes, because it has the not-unwelcome side effect of increasing secondary-armament range. That can be useful sometimes, even if you're not going for a full secondary build. Many battleships at higher tiers will have a secondary range of at least 4km with AFT on (or even without it), and that means you can deter a near-dead Soviet destroyer below Tier 8 from making a last-ditch YOLO run on your ship.

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MFAA is generally better, but if you're in a BB with decent secondaries and heavy on flak, then AFT becomes the better choice, IMO. 

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7 hours ago, Flashtirade said:

AFT only increases flak explosion damage, and we all know how reliable that is. MAA is strictly better but you have to actually switch sectors to make it work. Daunting, I know.

As a cruiser main and heavy CV player I can say AFT is much more effective than the CCs say in their videos. The issue is that it is difficult to afford it in a lot of builds. IT definitely gives the least bang for your captain buck of those three AA skills unless you need the other effect of boosting secondaries or light primaries.  For me I mostly use it on CAs (most don't require a lot of expensive skills like IFHE), some BBs (for the secondary boost component), or DDs with high-velocity guns. CLs, are usually too strapped for points most of the time and have a hard time affording it. The skill is effective, it just it will usually lose out to other skills in the captain point buffet unless you can get good benefits from the secondary component of the skill. 

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AFT is the 2nd least useful AA skill,  BFT is negated by the planes +10% HP and damage reductions skills, and AFT only adds 2 flak bursts,  Manual Fire Control is the most benificial.   concentrates the fire power more and shifts sectors faster

Edited by Shadowrigger1

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Manual is better when you only consider AA. AFT only boosts damage on flak bursts, and if the CV player hits those often enough for it to matter they will lose all of their planes regardless of if you have AFT or not. AFT can be a good choice if you also have decent secondaries since you get a dual benefit. It is all changing again, so I don't know if MFCAA will be worth it with the new sector system. Or if AA builds will be worth it given the plummeting CV population. I haven't regularly seen CVs since 8.5 dropped.

Edited by AdmiralPiett

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I don't see the point in either one right now. 

AFT is a token damage bonus, instead of the meaningful range boost it used to give.

Manual AA just ties into the useless sector focus distraction. 

 

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8 hours ago, WanderingGhost said:

Which is part of why we are back to RTS CV levels, because this is the skill gap they said they were trying to eliminate, but only made it worse with changes.

It's funny that we've basically done all this nonsense to basically be where we were the same time last year - except that in some cases the CV's are worse than they were or better, and we've only given them half tech trees and a more painful [edited] grind to get to the next ship.

I would say the reasons are a combination of 8.4 and 8.5 with the biggest part being RTS plane loss levels without an increase in alpha power, CV's became work again.

I think that every current CV is worse than its RTS counterpart and several of them are much worse with the current average damage being buoyed up by a higher percentage of unicum level players compared to the other ships. 

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8 hours ago, WanderingGhost said:

Which is part of why we are back to RTS CV levels, because this is the skill gap they said they were trying to eliminate, but only made it worse with changes.

It's funny that we've basically done all this nonsense to basically be where we were the same time last year - except that in some cases the CV's are worse than they were or better, and we've only given them half tech trees and a more painful [edited] grind to get to the next ship.

Oh yeah, it's a total crapshow, and it was utterly predictable. 

 

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I do have to agree CVs are becoming more rare.   But planes are very annoying.  Most seem to think AA focus is best with manual.     I am for sure the kind of guy who flips sectors.   Literally as planes come in to attack I am already flipping to my other side to pickup more damage after the pass.  I did this so much in my DDs its just habit now. 

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Up until 0.8.5, manual AA was the superior AA skill, but required actual effort and skill (switching sectors appropriately) to take advantage of.

With the changes to AA in 0.8.5, boosting your AA is largely overkill. The CV population has plummeted and I only ever really feel threatened by one when I’m in a DD.

Edited by Nevermore135

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MAA is straight up better than AFT. You can use it for the meme but honestly, AA right now is so powerfull and CV are as rare as finding gold ingot in your local supermarket so it's quite a wasted skill.

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43 minutes ago, AlcatrazNC said:

MAA is straight up better than AFT. You can use it for the meme but honestly, AA right now is so powerfull and CV are as rare as finding gold ingot in your local supermarket so it's quite a wasted skill.

It's amusing, one of the stated goals by WG with the CV Rework was to increase the value of the AA Build.

 

Chalk it up as another fail to the CV Rework :Smile_trollface:

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8 hours ago, KilljoyCutter said:

I don't see the point in either one right now. 

AFT is a token damage bonus, instead of the meaningful range boost it used to give.

Manual AA just ties into the useless sector focus distraction. 

 

See, this is why WG is constantly buffing AA to ridiculous levels because of the dumb playerbase who spout off nonsense like this.

Edited by RyuuohD_NA
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7 minutes ago, RyuuohD_NA said:

See, this is why WG is constantly buffing AA to ridiculous levels because of the dumb playerbase who spout off nonsense like this.

Except on DDs, sector focus takes longer to change than it takes for aircraft to strike, and gives a rather anemic boost to the damage rate.  Yay, 10 seconds after you hit the button, your AA will be doing 25% extra damage, as likely as not on the  wrong side of the ship, especially if you're also turning to avoid attacks.  It's just there to make players feel like they have an active ability to engage enemy aircraft, without actually doing all that much. 

I had manual AA on builds in PTS, it was pretty much useless. 

 

 

Edited by KilljoyCutter

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10 hours ago, BrushWolf said:

I think that every current CV is worse than its RTS counterpart

I will disagree on one ship, and that is Kaga. Don't get me wrong, the ship is bad vs +2 and ungodly broken vs tier 6 and some tier 7 ships - but it can handle +2 AA slightly better than RTS. But that's my experience. Long as the +2 ship is not called Wor, Mino, Salem, or Des - those just out-rightly shred planes in ways they shouldn't, and I say that owning Mino and Des.

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The only BB's I use manual secondaries are the French and German. Decreased  dispersion works better for the BB's with 457mm+ guns and the US have better guns for long range. I have not had any problems with CV's and AA is not a problem with my tier X BB defenses.

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