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Gearhead68

Opinion: French DD Hull Feature a Bad Idea?

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Now that the meaning of the of "new feature" of the French destroyers "their hulls: their HP can be reduced to zero, just like the ships' ends"  has sunk in, I have to say, this is about the single worst ship feature I've seen in WoWs.
 

Forget if it's OP, or weak, or unfair or whatever. From a development perspective, it's taking the game in a completely wrong direction. Why? Until now features of ship have been based upon some feature based on reality (or a fantasy version of reality) and trying to model this in game. Deep water torpedoes? Sure, torps can run a different depths. Short duration smoke screens? Maybe pushing it a bit, but still, the duration of smoke is based on a real thing. This new feature does the exact opposite - it take an obscure game mechanic, and tries to warp it to create a new feature. There are half a dozen other ways they could have achieve the goal of making French DDs more durable (give them a heal? Play with armor thickness? Play with HP), and in my opinion they picked the absolute worst way of handling it, taking simple idea "French DDs should be more durable" and warping it into something needless complex.

I play the game, knowing it's an arcade style game, and not a simulation, but shouldn't features then be some simplification of real things?

Opinions on this?

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What exactly are you saying? From what I can extrapolate, you are saying that French DDs will have the ability for the Hull to be damage saturated in the bow or stern and not be able to get more damage in those areas. If this is the case, I don't really know what to think about it, and really it doesn't seem so bad. You take away damage saturation from the other nations and make it a national flavor on the French DDs and take away their smoke, so two flavors. Since we have been playing with saturation zones already, every one knows to shoot at an unsaturated area on that ship or do no damage. I think I like that Idea, but it still remains, to see it in action.

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My opinion?

Let others waste time and effort on ribbity destroyers.

I may be a collector, but my utter disgust and hatred regarding WG’s actions over the last eight months has left my motivation burnt to a husk.

As someone who used to stay up to all hours and run 15-20 Randoms a night after work; now it’s often hard to generate the motivation for Naval Battles prep, and then a measly ten games across an entire weekend.

Someone wants to play the new shineys? More power to them. I’ll pass.

Too many older ships I barely use anyway; no reason to get more.

Edited by Estimated_Prophet
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1 hour ago, Gearhead68 said:

I play the game, knowing it's an arcade style game, and not a simulation, but shouldn't features then be some simplification of real things?

How about a simple thing like water tight bulkheads. If that compartment is sealed off what harm would hitting it have on the rest of the ship. Simple.

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2 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

My opinion?

Let others waste time and effort on ribbity destroyers.

I may be a collector, but my utter disgust and hatred over the last eight months has left my motivation burnt to a husk.

As someone who used to stay up to all hours and run 15-20 Randoms a night after work; now it’s often hard to generate the motivation for Naval Battles prep, and then a measly ten games across an entire weekend.

Someone wants to play the new shineys? More power to them. I’ll pass.

Too many older ships I barely use anyway; no reason to get more.

The recent event grinding seems to have tarnished your view of the game, as it has mine, but what of what the OP has said. Are they taking away saturation, just so it can be a National flavor and what do you think about that. It doesn't seem like a bad idea to me and not really OP since these ship won't have smoke.

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12 minutes ago, Sovereigndawg said:

The recent event grinding seems to have tarnished your view of the game, as it has mine, but what of what the OP has said. Are they taking away saturation, just so it can be a National flavor and what do you think about that. It doesn't seem like a bad idea to me and not really OP since these ship won't have smoke.

In the sense it sometimes seems like the effect already exists, I suppose I don’t have any issue with it.

My original read was the 0-points was for the entire hull. THAT I’d have an issue with.

If it’s just the forward and aft ‘sections?’ Meh; whadevs.

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1 hour ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

In the sense it sometimes seems like the effect already exists, I suppose I don’t have any issue with it.

My original read was the 0-points was for the entire hull. THAT I’d have an issue with.

If it’s just the forward and aft ‘sections?’ Meh; whadevs.

My understanding is that's what it is, damsat for the entire hull. I also understand why it is this way. They're big, they have no smoke, it's all about surviving. As it stands, the DDs in the game already, FR, have a lower survive rate than other DDs. Now, toss in a whole tech tree of them that anyone can, and probably will, play. You have a line that most quickly stop playing, thereby wasting even more of Lesta's already wasted time. It'll allow players to survive long enough to learn how to play them.

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Realism in this game is something in 2nd or even 3line, according to their historical data, all of them had smoke from Gaboulde onwards. This game is a stone/paper/scissors mixed with Might&Magic  cards (detection in special) so forget the world "realism", please. If you want realistic damage models there are other games like [edited].

I have Le Terrible and it can be fun, but it is a hard ship to play, even being used to Tashkent and Kiev. A good aimed cruiser salvo can erase you off the map, and its size and speed make it very prone to eat torpedoes, as you literally run into them and turn like a truck.

So any ideas giving them any extra durability will be welcome.

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That hull feature is necessary given what French DD's are designed to do. They are open water snipers. They are very similar to Russian DD's. You're supposed to be spotted 100% of the time. If you're at the proper range and speed, not even T10 cruisers that are known for ballistics and their ability to reliably hit DD's long range (Hindenburg, Zao, Moskva) can hit you....

This hull feature only compliments what the ship is supposed to do. Divert enemy fire, scare the crap out of them, make them panic while getting flanked, and ROFLSTOMP cruisers with AP. There's an inherent problem when a DD has no smoke... this counters that drawback. And judging by how well LeTerrible plays... it works pretty good!

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On 7/24/2019 at 5:29 PM, Patosentado said:

Do Aigle and Terrible have this hull characteristics?

Pretty sure Le Terrible got this feature as part of it's last update when the gun ballistics were improved. To my knowledge, Aigle does not.

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On 7/21/2019 at 10:28 AM, TheKrimzonDemon said:

My understanding is that's what it is, damsat for the entire hull. I also understand why it is this way. They're big, they have no smoke, it's all about surviving. As it stands, the DDs in the game already, FR, have a lower survive rate than other DDs. Now, toss in a whole tech tree of them that anyone can, and probably will, play. You have a line that most quickly stop playing, thereby wasting even more of Lesta's already wasted time. It'll allow players to survive long enough to learn how to play them.

I want to add, that all this talk about FRDDs with large size to hit, no smoke, and no repair party (none of the new tech tree ones have RP access, even IX Mogador) should be familiar to anyone that's been around for a while.

 

Le Terrible.

 

And lots of people hated her because of those issues.

 

But you want to know what I'm really amused about?  When Premium DD Le Terrible released, it got panned exactly for all those same issues.  She got mercilessly roasted in reviews for all those "qualities."  Fast forward to today with the FRDD Line "Pre-Release" event, you got a bunch of people spending money to get these identical ships earlier!

Image result for travolta confused gif imgur

 

Good job by WG for doing this magic!  People avoided buying Le Terrible, now people are spending huge money to get a bunch of these identical ships!  It's hilarious a.f.!

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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3 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

I want to add, that all this talk about FRDDs with large size to hit, no smoke, and no repair party (none of the new tech tree ones have RP access, even IX Mogador) should be familiar to anyone that's been around for a while.

 

Le Terrible.

 

And lots of people hated her because of those issues.

 

But you want to know what I'm really amused about?  When Premium DD Le Terrible released, it got panned exactly for all those same issues.  She got mercilessly roasted in reviews for all those "qualities."  Fast forward to today with the FRDD Line "Pre-Release" event, you got a bunch of people spending money to get these identical ships earlier!

Image result for travolta confused gif imgur

 

Good job by WG for doing this magic!  People avoided buying Le Terrible, now people are spending huge money to get a bunch of these identical ships!  It's hilarious a.f.!

Ikr? Personally, I enjoy LT, and after taking Jag(Event crate, for once, no buying involved) out for a spin yesterday, that damsat is the only reason I was able to survive and do what I did with it, because the French DDs, like LT, eat quick damage and lose modules as if they were never even there to begin with. 

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20 hours ago, Grimm262 said:

Pretty sure Le Terrible got this feature as part of it's last update when the gun ballistics were improved. To my knowledge, Aigle does not.

The Premiums weren't specifically listed as part of the changes.  Reminds me of the US BB Line Buffs months back when WG only talked about the tech tree ships below Tier X of that line, as none of the Premiums got the Repair Party or Rudder Shift buffs.  Iowa for example got a greatly improved Repair Party and Rudder Shift set of buffs, Missouri wasn't mentioned and did not get the buffs.  Alabama, Arizona, etc and all the other Premiums?  Also no.

 

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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Oh look ... it's one of those "Diz Not Reality!" posts. You know, like torps that can spammed. Or a ship that can repair itself in 30 seconds. Or shells that are FAR more accurate than they were historically. Or a button that could suddenly make Bofors twice as powerful for a minute. Or destroyers that can't be spotted from 6km away. Or ... well, you get the drift. WoWS is an arcadey game, not a simulator. Stop taking the 'realism' approach when discussing ship mechanics. This is not the game you're looking for.

Basically, they are adding damage saturation to these DDs center mass. And I see nothing wrong with that as it will indeed boost their survivability.

More importantly, these ships practically DEMAND Adrenalin Rush since they will take much more pre-saturated damage at first, greatly benefiting their torp and gun reload. Even better, the French Honore captain boosts AR.

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On 7/26/2019 at 3:40 PM, HazeGrayUnderway said:

The Premiums weren't specifically listed as part of the changes.  Reminds me of the US BB Line Buffs months back when WG only talked about the tech tree ships below Tier X of that line, as none of the Premiums got the Repair Party or Rudder Shift buffs.  Iowa for example got a greatly improved Repair Party and Rudder Shift set of buffs, Missouri wasn't mentioned and did not get the buffs.  Alabama, Arizona, etc and all the other Premiums?  Also no.

 

Except that in the case of Le Terrible, it was specifically mentioned as one of the changes to her not long ago. Looks like the French DD line is taking from that example.

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4 hours ago, KaptainKaybe said:

Except that in the case of Le Terrible, it was specifically mentioned as one of the changes to her not long ago. Looks like the French DD line is taking from that example.

You have a source on that?  I know LT got some gun characteristics changed a while back, I did not hear anything about her hull.

 

Not that it matters if she did.  She still gets hammered by gunfire.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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On 7/21/2019 at 10:42 PM, Gearhead68 said:

I play the game, knowing it's an arcade style game, and not a simulation, but shouldn't features then be some simplification of real things?

But I don't see you complaining about damage saturation of fore and aft end of ships. The 'new' feature of French DDs is exactly this - it's hull can be saturated in addition to bow and stern. 

You still get hammered badly if you get shot by big guns, only you'll get 1/6 HE damage per penetration rather than 1/3.

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12 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

You have a source on that?  I know LT got some gun characteristics changed a while back, I did not hear anything about her hull.

 

Not that it matters if she did.  She still gets hammered by gunfire.

It was in the very same dev blog / game update that flattened her gun arcs and turned her AP into a monster. If I find the link, I'll edit this post.

EDIT: Change happened in 0.8.3.

https://worldofwarships.com/en/news/game-updates/update-083-the-victory/#balance

Notser covers it also after in his vid on it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvIWUlP2uJk

 

Edited by KaptainKaybe

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On 7/22/2019 at 8:44 AM, Patosentado said:

Realism in this game is something in 2nd or even 3line, according to their historical data, all of them had smoke from Gaboulde onwards. This game is a stone/paper/scissors mixed with Might&Magic  cards (detection in special) so forget the world "realism", please. If you want realistic damage models there are other games like [edited].

I have Le Terrible and it can be fun, but it is a hard ship to play, even being used to Tashkent and Kiev. A good aimed cruiser salvo can erase you off the map, and its size and speed make it very prone to eat torpedoes, as you literally run into them and turn like a truck.

So any ideas giving them any extra durability will be welcome.

Sry, let me fix that for you. Games like Atlantic Fleet, which uses a completely realistic damage model. There are no hp bars, no instant repairs, and no healing. Also, no [edited] like destroyers doing retarded amounts of damage to everything, overpens doing minimal damage, and carriers obliterating everything. Instead, overpens cause flooding and destroy equipment, Battleships are perfectly capable of one shotting destroyers, destroyers do zero- minor damage with their guns, and EVERYTHING CAN LAY A SMOKESCREEN. On top of that, you cannot "see" a target that you yourself are not spotting. Please, if someone would like to take the Atlantic Fleet damage model and combine it with a WoWS type game, I'll be the first to leave this garbage behind.

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I believe it is not a totally a bad idea to reduce damage taken when saturated as a flavor of the french DDs but im still on the fence on whenever they need changes or not because they have extreme high risk/win playstyle like you easily succeed in killing that red ship or 2 early game or you die so early because they had support of his team shooting at you and you team just gives you weird looks as if you just yolo'd or... im just playing them the wrong way.

Edited by Rolkatsuki
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