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LittleWhiteMouse

Premium Ship Review #129 - Benham

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Not sure if it's just me. But the images and gifs aren't showing correctly. Other than that another great review!

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I'd like to get this bote, but with the state of Fuel in my Arsenal and remaining time for all this, I'd have to fork out for the 25 Rogue Wave Crates to get this thing :Smile_amazed:

 

Edit:  I miscalculated how much Fuel tokens I needed left.  Finished the grind not too long ago but was still short from getting Benham completely free.  Went and got 10k doubs and got 12 crates, got the tokens, and now she's in my port.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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glad I skipped this one, if only to have saved myself, from the grind.

thanks for the review, looking forward to the results of your "torp soup research"

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Well, I can honestly say that this was one of the more bothersome grinds in recent memory. Was it entirely worth it? Remains to be seen. Do I think the Benham is going to be a riot to play? Considering the whales I've seen out and about wrecking face with it, not to mention the similarities I see with my Kami waifu; Ooooh yes!

Edited by JediMasterDraco

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Great review as always!

I did think The Last Starfighter more closely resembles the war canoe though...

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Thanks for the review Miss Mouse. I guess if I want an elite XP farmer for my Fletcher Captain, there's always the Hill...he's a gunboat captain so the overlap will probably be better.

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I managed to acquire it last night and tried her in a Co op battle. I was a bit careful at first and didn't turn out much of a game. If you want to score more than 1 hit per salvo you kind of have to rush torp your victim. These fish don't really like to stay close to each other at distance and of course bots start dodging the moment you fire. You might fair better in a random match, where the Tater tots tend to go in straight lines at the same speed for long periods of time. 3 of my 4 torp hits happened when I strafed a BB to end the battle. The 32 torps I fired before that did manage to get one hit on the Tirpitz at distance. The Benham and the Minotaur easily evaded my torps at medium range. The damage to them came from the guns which aren't bad, but I won't sing any songs about them. I am sure that when I get used to her, I can mange some really great matches with Benham.

 I searched for @LittleWhiteMouse review before I set Benham up of course, but alas, it did not come out until about 7 hours after I got the ship. I was most interested in Miss Mouse's upgrades and Captain skill picks. I kind of struggled with those a bit because you can spec for guns, torps and AA or a combination of two or all of them. Captains skills were the hardest for me. Here are my picks Miss Mouse what would you do different? Do I really benefit from the longer guns and do I really need IFHE? Those points could really be used elsewhere I think such as Survivability Expert, Superintendent and another 2 point skill. Keep in mind this is my Gearing Captain I respeced because I didn't have him speced for Torpedo Armament Expertise and I wanted to use a 19 point captain. So, again is it worth losing fire chance for IFHE? and with the flighty shells is it worth the extra range? Thanks for yet another great review LWM, did I say, Your The Bee's Knees? The Last Starfighter GIF made my morning, respect.

THE GRIND was actually too much for me, so much so, that I made a thread about it. I might add that I probably would have dedicated even more time, signals and camos if I didn't already miss the 48 out of 50 daily mission by 1 before I realized that I had to get 48 of them. I promise you WG that I will never grind like this again and it could drive me from the game. The grind is depleting the fun factor, with the grind tipping the scales, after this one. You have a great game with dedicated players don't ruin it with the grind aspect. I would say something about the cost but that is another topic all together.

shot-19_07.20_08_52.29-0383.thumb.jpg.951562e1b18aee223673841ad9f378d6.jpg

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I could have waited and gotten my cost down to 1 crate if I would have played for the rest of the fuel tokens. I did buy 4 crates and with what the crates give, I should have waited, so I would have only had to buy 1.

Edited by Sovereigndawg

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Thanks for the review, Mouse! They’re always a highlight of my day. 

Benham’s lack of flexibility precludes her from being anything more than a novelty, in my book. A destroyer that can’t do crucial destroyer things (like contest a cap, or fight off other destroyers) just isn’t very useful. It’s another ship that reinforces the “bad Shimakaze player” meme, except where bad Shima players refuse to contest caps or open up with their guns, Benham legitimately can’t. Strangely, I find Benham to be far more one dimensional than Asashio, and almost half as fun to play. Some folks will like her, and that’s great, but torpedo soup alone does not a meal make. 

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Just got her, notice she's a not healthy boat.  So she's lowest in T9...

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Love the @LittleWhiteMouse review (as always), but was wondering about skills.

Seems like the following are no brainer, but not sure after that:

1 - Priority or Prevent (depending on your preference)

2 - Last Stand, then Adrenaline

3 - Torp Arm, then ???  Survive Expert perhaps?

4 - Conceal, then ???  IFHE or Radio perhaps?

 

Would love thoughts on this.

 

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1 hour ago, BruDog1970 said:

Love the @LittleWhiteMouse review (as always), but was wondering about skills.

Seems like the following are no brainer, but not sure after that:

1 - Priority or Prevent (depending on your preference)

2 - Last Stand, then Adrenaline

3 - Torp Arm, then ???  Survive Expert perhaps?

4 - Conceal, then ???  IFHE or Radio perhaps?

 

Would love thoughts on this.

 

Preventative Maintenance, Last Stand, Survivability Expert, Concealment, Torpedo Armament Expertise, Radio Location, Adrenaline Rush.

Her torps get knocked out in a stiff breeze (especially when you run the torpedo reload upgrade) so Preventative Maintenance is huge. Last Stand is a compulsory choice for a destroyer. Survivability Expert helps to offset her tier VII HP pool, and Concealment is mandatory to mitigate her garbage detection range. Torpedo Armament obviously helps you get the most out of her fish, while Radio Location gives you an idea of where other DDs are so you can run away from them (or at the very least prevent them from getting the drop on you). Finally, Adrenaline Rush lets you get fish in the water more quickly still after you've been bloodied. 

Edited by SkaerKrow
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For skills, I'd set it as:
PT - LS - SE - CE (typical base 10)
TRE - AR - RL

I wouldn't spec into guns / AA. These skills are an ok match for Fletcher, where I have Ovetchkin. His SE buff helps Benham.
I spec'd out my Gearing skills before the torp change so it's gun/AA focused for use on Kidd as well, though with that torp change I'm considering doing the gun/AA focus on Farragut for Kidd, and make the Gearing more balanced, but will wait until after the next set of AA changes. I see a lot of love for Preventative Maintenance, but I've found Priority Target to be much more useful.

Edited by EaterOfToast
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Skill point wise, I'd start with the basics for any destroyer, putting the first 10 points like this:

  • Priority Target
  • Last Stand
  • Survivability Expert - Bonus points if you're using Ovechkin for the extra health.
  • Concealment Expert

Next it's time to double back.

  • Preventative Maintenance - I generally dislike this skill, but torpedo specialized destroyers get their tubes knocked out with alarming regularity.
  • Torpedo Armament Expertise - cuz we need to get that sub-70 second reload.
  • Basic Fire Training - to increase that paltry main battery DPM.
  • Adrenaline Rush - To once more increase our torpedo reload and main battery DPM.

Here's how it looks:

dF917BB.png

 

Edited by LittleWhiteMouse
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14 hours ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Small-DPM4-1024x623.png

you win the internet for making Freisland out to be a Super Saiyan in DPM

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8 hours ago, tcbaker777 said:

you win the internet for making Freisland out to be a Super Saiyan in DPM

Actually it's something far worse than a Saiyan. It's Dio Brando.

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Oh, one more thing @LittleWhiteMouse, that bit at the end about the torpedo damage not matching the numbers in port, was that about USS Black? Because her torpedo damage has consistently seemed wrong (lower than advertised) to me, but I've always chalked that up to my imagination.

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2 minutes ago, SkaerKrow said:

Oh, one more thing @LittleWhiteMouse, that bit at the end about the torpedo damage not matching the numbers in port, was that about USS Black? Because her torpedo damage has consistently seemed wrong (lower than advertised) to me, but I've always chalked that up to my imagination.

It applies all across the board.  Torpedo damage is based upon three components, all of which are hidden stats.  These are:

  • Alpha Damage - Generally speaking, this acts like HE shell damage. So a citadel hit would yield a 100% damage hit, a penetration 33%, etc.  However, torpedoes can never cause citadel hits so we always see this as dealing about one third of the listed damage here when a torpedo strikes home.  This obeys the normal ship damage rule, so 0.165x gets done to the section of the ship that's hit and 0.165x gets done to the overall hull of the ship.
  • Blast Damage - This is generally a small damage value that applies an area-of-effect blast shaped like a cube (we'll sometimes call it "cube damage").  This allows the damage to be spread to more than one hull section of a time.  From what Stuntman9630 and I can tell, the more of a given hull that ends up under the cube, the more damage is done there.  There appears to be an upper maximum of damage can be done here (0.165x per section as far as we can tell) but more experiments need to be done to isolate it.
  • Blast Size - This tells us how big the blast cube is.

The in-port torpedo damage statistic is calculated taking Alpha Damage, dividing it by three and adding the Blast Damage value.  So a torpedo with 35,000 alpha and 900 blast would have an in-port value of 12,567 damage.

When striking a destroyer in the center of mass (where the citadel would be), the math that Stuntman and I figured out works out to the following:

[ Alpha Damage * 0.165 (casemate) ] + [ Alpha Damage * 0.165 (hull) ] + [ Blast Damage * 0.0165 * overlap coefficient ]

The "overlap coefficient" is simply the number of times the blast damage is applied.  Small blasts appear to apply fewer than large blasts.

Now keep in mind this is the most simplistic scenario we can cook up.  The casemate (center part of a destroyer) cannot be saturated, nor does it have any form of damage reduction.  Furthermore, destroyers are small so a torpedo hitting there appears to overlap the cube absolutely perfectly.  Adjusting our aim to make torpedoes hit closer to the bow or stern but remaining hitting the casemate area didn't affect our blast damage at all.  From trial and error, we began to see a pattern involving blast damage coefficients to the point that we could predict (within a rounding error of +/- 1hp) how much damage a given torpedo would do to the casemate of a destroyer with any torpedo in the game.

So let's use our  torpedo with 35,000 alpha damage, 900 blast damage and a 1.0 blast size to see what it would actually do against a destroyer:

[ Alpha Damage * 0.165 (casemate) ] + [ Alpha Damage * 0.165 (hull) ] + [ Blast Damage * 0.0165 * overlap coefficient ]
[ 35,000 * 0.165 ] + [ 35,000 * 0.165 ] + [ 900 * 0.0165 * 6 ]
[ 5,775 ] + [ 5,775 ] + [ 89 ]

11,639

This value appears close, but it's obviously not the 12.6k damage advertised in port.  I took the time to test all of the British (and Commonwealth) ship based torpedoes and made the following list:

6mo0kTi.png

These stats were largely pulled from GameModels3d.com except the destroyer damage value which came from 12 hours worth of data collection.  From this, Stuntman9630 and I were able to isolate what the overlap coefficient was for each torpedo.  We originally assumed the overlap coefficient was splash damage * 0.033 but amended this to a 0.0165 multiple as we expected it to conform to the same rules as other penetration damage -- dealing damage twice, first to the section of the ship hit and then again to the overall hull.

JZOjt5P.png

Now if this looks all official and authoritative, it isn't.  This is still just a bunch of observations.  This information does not hold up when applied to the bow or stern of a destroyer and it all falls apart when fish hit a cruiser, battleship or carrier.  These are just the first forays made into trying to understand how these mechanics work.  If you need evidence of this, you need only look at American torpedo performance where the infamous USS Black appears and muddies up the waters.

sIxPNVV.png

Where Black gets really weird is when you look at her three torpedo stats:

  • Alpha Damage:  34,800
  • Blast Damage: 10,000 (!)
  • Blast Size: 1.8

This gives Black in-port torpedo stats of 21,600.  However, when she smacks a destroyer in the casemate this yields a damage value of 14,784 which is an enormous difference compared to her advertised hitting power.  Compare this to the comparable in-port damage value of Shimakaze's Type F3 torpedoes with 21,367 damage listed in port.  They have the following stats:

  • Alpha Damage: 59,600
  • Blast Damage: 1,500
  • Blast Size: 1.3

When they strike a destroyer amidships they deal 19,915 damage (a splash coefficient of 10).  So there's a huge disparity there.  However, what we suspect is that when it comes to testing how much damage Black does against targets with anti-torpedo defense, or hits that strike anywhere other than the casemate, the numbers will go up appreciably -- maybe even surpassing more standard torpedoes based on how much damage is locked into her "blast".  This is what early tests have shown us, however, until we can figure out the exact math going on and can isolate exactly how to replicate said results, this is only a hypothesis.  More work and a lot more testing has to be done.

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16 hours ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Skill point wise, I'd start with the basics for any destroyer, putting the first 10 points like this:

  • Priority Target
  • Last Stand
  • Survivability Expert - Bonus points if you're using Ovechkin for the extra health.
  • Concealment Expert

Next it's time to double back.

  • Preventative Maintenance - I generally dislike this skill, but torpedo specialized destroyers get their tubes knocked out with alarming regularity.
  • Torpedo Armament Expertise - cuz we need to get that sub-70 second reload.
  • Basic Fire Training - to increase that paltry main battery DPM.
  • Adrenaline Rush - To once more increase our torpedo reload and main battery DPM.

Here's how it looks:

dF917BB.png

 

The other option is to take RDF. Since you'll be spotted by 5.4 km boats, it helps to know what direction they're coming from.

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9 hours ago, JediMasterDraco said:

Actually it's something far worse than a Saiyan. It's Dio Brando.

"you thought it was a Super Saiyan, but it was actually ME, DIO"

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Thanks for that incredibly detailed response  Mouse (and @StuntMan9630 for the research assist). I had no idea that the torpedo system was that complicated.

The strangeness of the Black’s torps makes sense then, because it’s against DDs where I usually felt like they were underperforming versus the advertised damage value. 

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