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Landing_Skipper

Standard Battle Tactics

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Tier 5 and below it's possible to capture the enemy base.  T6 gets harder.  By Tier 8 it is very unlikely.  With a CV game it should NOT HAPPEN unless so many of the friendly ships are dead it just doesn't matter. 

Defense always has advantages over offense.  It takes a long time to cap out an enemy base.  If you ship gets touched by a single rocket or secondary shell, all of your accumulated time in cap is lost.  Therefore, if there are multiple ships in your base, you need to try to hit ALL of them so that you reset their progress.

2 ships in base caps faster than 1.  3 caps faster than 2.  IIRC any more than 3 doesn't matter except that there are more ships to reset.

Fanning out in multiple groups, then not crossing the half way line generally is the best tactic.  Yes, you should push if the red team collapses in front of you, but always keep an eye on your own base. 

Please add any other thoughts to this that might be useful.

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Bravo! Encore! I sense a wiff of the rare aroma of TEAM WORK!

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1 hour ago, Landing_Skipper said:

Defense always has advantages over offense.  It takes a long time to cap out an enemy base.  If you ship gets touched by a single rocket or secondary shell, all of your accumulated time in cap is lost. 

Small correction. Taking damage reduces your accumulated cap points by half, not all.

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Just now, RipNuN2 said:

Small correction. Taking damage reduces your accumulated cap points by half, not all.

Good correction.  So 2 shell hits zeros it out?  1 torp hit only takes 50%?

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I've always consider Standard Battle a DEFENSE game mode, not an offense game mode.   I rarely leave the green cap area or stray far from it and I can't stand it when my team all pushes up 1 side while an enemy DD slips past and solo-caps the thing.    There is literally no reason to ever go past half-map in this game mode.

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2 minutes ago, Landing_Skipper said:

Good correction.  So 2 shell hits zeros it out?  1 torp hit only takes 50%?

Not quite first hit takes half, 2nd hit takes half again etc. This does depend on how may cap points you have. Say you have only one accumulated cap point. You cant divide it in half and have a whole number so you lose it.

Edited by RipNuN2
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Do NOT ignore a flank - leave a flank weak and they come that way and it will be a steamroll.

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Standard Battle tactics for the teams I draw...

Ver.1:  2/3rds of the team up the 1-2 or 9-10 line (or around one side of Two Brothers) 2-3 ships end up having to kite both top tier BB's while a DD sneaks into the cap. The big push gets stalled by 1-2 ships.

Ver 2: Sequential solo push into the reds, die one by one, spam chat with salt because of "no support."

 

 I'm at the point where I think shoving my face in a blender would be preferable to seeing a Two Brothers Standard Battle pop up.

 

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#1. Rule to ANY game mode:  Team that has more ships above water than the enemy has the better chance to win and that probability increases not linearly, but exponentially with each number of ships above water over the opponent.

The best players in the game know this which is why if you kill yourself early claiming you're "playing the objective" instead of lasting into the late game WHILE STILL DOING MASSIVE DAMAGE (not just running to J1), you're not actually "playing the objective."  The objective is to win and you can't contribute to any of the ways to make that happen from the bottom of the sea floor.

Therefore, kills > caps.  No more is that critical than in the first 5-10 min of the game.  You die early and you initiate the snowball effect which is VERY hard to recover from.  You want the cap, be it standard mode or domination mode?  Then stay the $%#& alive and ensure the enemy isn't.  The team with more ships on the board owns and keeps the caps.  Period.

If you're going to be a loser and point to the outliers where an idiot team ignored a single ship that snuck around and stealth capped while they ignored him, I guarantee you are not a good player or person.  No good person of any value uses outliers to justify their position.  Just because you might have a 90 year old chain smoking grandma, that doesn't mean smoking won't shorten peoples' lives.

#2.  When a player with a far superior performance history tells you a better way to play or better decisions to make in the future, and you have the self respect enough to want to be a better version than your prior self, drop the loser defensive attitude and listen to them and put into practice what they tell you.  Do that and it won't matter what the game mode is, you'll be better equipped to handle what's thrown at you.

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16 hours ago, A_Burning_Sensation said:

#1. Rule to ANY game mode:  Team that has more ships above water than the enemy has the better chance to win and that probability increases not linearly, but exponentially with each number of ships above water over the opponent.

The best players in the game know this which is why if you kill yourself early claiming you're "playing the objective" instead of lasting into the late game WHILE STILL DOING MASSIVE DAMAGE (not just running to J1), you're not actually "playing the objective."  The objective is to win and you can't contribute to any of the ways to make that happen from the bottom of the sea floor.

Therefore, kills > caps.  No more is that critical than in the first 5-10 min of the game.  You die early and you initiate the snowball effect which is VERY hard to recover from.  You want the cap, be it standard mode or domination mode?  Then stay the $%#& alive and ensure the enemy isn't.  The team with more ships on the board owns and keeps the caps.  Period.

If you're going to be a loser and point to the outliers where an idiot team ignored a single ship that snuck around and stealth capped while they ignored him, I guarantee you are not a good player or person.  No good person of any value uses outliers to justify their position.  Just because you might have a 90 year old chain smoking grandma, that doesn't mean smoking won't shorten peoples' lives.

#2.  When a player with a far superior performance history tells you a better way to play or better decisions to make in the future, and you have the self respect enough to want to be a better version than your prior self, drop the loser defensive attitude and listen to them and put into practice what they tell you.  Do that and it won't matter what the game mode is, you'll be better equipped to handle what's thrown at you.

I respectfully disagree with your premise that caps don't matter.  In Domination mode controlling caps DOES matter.  Note that I said "controlling" not taking.  Denying the red team access to points accumulating through cap capture is almost as good as taking the cap.  How many battles have you seen where the red team controls all of the caps and you win?  Not many.

Yes, sinking red ships makes a HUGE difference.  However, too many players take damage and kill accumulation as the sole objective and lose because of it.

IMHO the most difficult aspect of this game is knowing when to push, when to hold, and when to "re-position" (IOW run away).

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22 hours ago, Landing_Skipper said:

Tier 5 and below it's possible to capture the enemy base.  T6 gets harder.  By Tier 8 it is very unlikely.  With a CV game it should NOT HAPPEN unless so many of the friendly ships are dead it just doesn't matter. 

Defense always has advantages over offense.  It takes a long time to cap out an enemy base.  If you ship gets touched by a single rocket or secondary shell, all of your accumulated time in cap is lost.  Therefore, if there are multiple ships in your base, you need to try to hit ALL of them so that you reset their progress.

2 ships in base caps faster than 1.  3 caps faster than 2.  IIRC any more than 3 doesn't matter except that there are more ships to reset.

Fanning out in multiple groups, then not crossing the half way line generally is the best tactic.  Yes, you should push if the red team collapses in front of you, but always keep an eye on your own base. 

Please add any other thoughts to this that might be useful.

This is where destroyers staying alive is so important. 2-3 DDs in a base working together who can cycle their smoke one at a time and use walls of torpedoes to keep enemy ships out of the base (or kill them if they rush in) can end a game very quickly.

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5 hours ago, Landing_Skipper said:

I respectfully disagree with your premise that caps don't matter.  In Domination mode controlling caps DOES matter.  Note that I said "controlling" not taking.  Denying the red team access to points accumulating through cap capture is almost as good as taking the cap.  How many battles have you seen where the red team controls all of the caps and you win?  Not many.

Yes, sinking red ships makes a HUGE difference.  However, too many players take damage and kill accumulation as the sole objective and lose because of it.

IMHO the most difficult aspect of this game is knowing when to push, when to hold, and when to "re-position" (IOW run away).

All you have to do is point to where I said caps don't matter and your argument is valid.

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6 hours ago, Incomitatus said:

This is where destroyers staying alive is so important. 2-3 DDs in a base working together who can cycle their smoke one at a time and use walls of torpedoes to keep enemy ships out of the base (or kill them if they rush in) can end a game very quickly.

This is very true.  When you are playing a random game, and let's say each team starts out with 2 destroyers but you are playing in a cruiser or battleship and you see both of your team's destroyers have suddenly died and the enemy's destroyers are both still alive, you know the rest of the game probably isn't going to be much fun.  Maybe if there are aircraft carriers in the game it can be evened out, but not likely.  I have been in a few memorable games where all our destroyers died early and the enemy's didn't , and we still won the game, but it usually involved the enemy throwing away their lead in either a dramatic or humorous fashion.

For cruiser players, staying alive and not making really dumb mistakes is also very important.  Battleship players can sometimes make a mistake early in a game, but disengage and carefully use their damage control and repair party to mitigate their error and still have a solid game.  This doesn't apply to most cruisers before tier 9.  Without repair party whatever HP you lose is gone, or worse case, you may be gone from the game already.  The games where you survive to the end or near the end of the game are when you will rack up big scores and help your team win.  More than that, a good cruiser player should be looking to use the spotting provided by your DD's and support them if at all possible.  Using cover is important, but learning to use it in a way that still gives you good firing angles to support your teammates and harass the enemy is more important. 

Final tip, whatever class of ship you play, don't stop looking at the minimap.  It is so easy to get tunnel vision when an enemy makes a mistake in front of you, and you are firing salvo after salvo at them trying to finish them off.  If you are checking the minimap on a consistent basis and an enemy destroyer goes undetected, you still know it's general vicinity and might be able guess where it will head next.  If you get tunnel visioned and look up and discover the enemy destroyer has gone off detection, you have no way of knowing if it just went off detection or did so 45 seconds ago.  Good luck trying to figure out where it went or where it's torpedoes might suddenly appear. 

Edited by Pigus_Drunkus_Maximus
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14 hours ago, A_Burning_Sensation said:

All you have to do is point to where I said caps don't matter and your argument is valid.

My apologies. You said that kills and damage are more important than caps initially. You also said that “The team with more ships above water owns and keeps the caps.”

I had a knee jerk reaction to an emphasis on kills and damage over objective play. You made it clear that kills are a means to an end - victory - and that owning and keeping caps gets you there. THAT is the point so many damage farmers fail to grasp. 

Regardless of the battle mode, finishing off low HP opponents helps your team. Killing DDs leads to victory, and that applies to every ship class including BBs. Focusing on the ship leading a push frequently stops it. The point I’m trying to make is that raw damage doesn’t matter in and of itself. 10k off a DD matters so much more than 10k off a battleship with a heal. Eliminating the opposing player who is leading a push or controlling a key map area  is far more important than chasing after an ineffectual ship on the edge of the map. 

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Kills are not always the key to Victory. You can't rely on killing to win the game. Capping is what wins most games. Example. Battle of Jutland. Germans sank more British ships but retreated into German waters and bottled itself up there. In Other words, the British capped and won a Strategic Victory.

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59 minutes ago, bobby_scott05 said:

Kills are not always the key to Victory. You can't rely on killing to win the game. Capping is what wins most games. Example. Battle of Jutland. Germans sank more British ships but retreated into German waters and bottled itself up there. In Other words, the British capped and won a Strategic Victory.

Pay attention to your matches more. Yes more often than not victory comes before all 12 enemy ships are sunk, but that's not relevant.  You have to look at the state of the game when that 1000 points are reached.  What team then had more ships?

9/10 times, probably even 19/20 times the team that won in your mind because of caps coincidentally also had more ships afloat.

Cause / effect. Those that obsess over caps too much that is hurts their play fail to recognize it was the kills that helped the winning team cap and keep the caps.

Kills were the cause, caps were the effect.

You want caps? You need to be alive late game to cap them, to defend them, and ensure your team has more ships above water than the enemy team until either the clock runs out or maybe your team does take out all 12 ships.

You'll never see a unicum player disagreeing with this logic, that alone should tell you something.

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I go with the flow of the game most of the time..The most important part of the game is spotting and knowing where the enemy is..Many losses our caused by the DD or CV doing a bad job of  spotting or keeping the enemy ships spotted..I do not play DD much however in all my DDs I have above 55% win rate but my average damage output a game is not very high..I always see my first role as a spotter then I cap and or kill when a good opportunity presents its self..This has been a losing week for me and most of those losses our due to bad spotting..I have been playing Zao and fiji this week and both ships depend a lot on good spotting..Zao can wreck any ship at long range  and fiji can do the same under 10km if you smoke up at the right times and play smart..However both ships need good spotting to preform well and halfway decent teamwork to do this on any game type...

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How about actually fight. You are going to pay the same amount of repairs even if you don't get touched the whole game so why not at least try and make some credits. This morning has been team after team that is afraid to pack up and push or things like a cruiser that just put it in reverse as soon as the match started and backed all the way to the edge. A good solid group that can pack up and push as soon as you see the enemy is down a few ships will A. support each other with AA and B. Create a spear head that can break a flank. Stop being afraid of scratching your paint because you will pay the same amount after battle as losing your ship.

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On 7/19/2019 at 4:44 PM, Landing_Skipper said:

 T6 gets harder.  By Tier 8 it is very unlikely. 

It depends on many factors.  Too many permutations to enumerate here, but if things line up, I bee line to cap.  One key is hoping the enemy thinks it's unlikely, so they sit back and wait.  I'll cap...get out...then defend the counter cap.    

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I agree with the OP, and with all due respect to dissenters, there is a big difference between Standard mode (which is the one under discussion) and Domination mode. In Standard mode, you can win without capping but not without defending. I tend to play conservatively and think it's wise to deploy in a balanced fashion at the start. If the reds don't, then shuffle some to meet the threat. Because Burning Sensation is right in that local numerical superiority is a good predictor of victory in that area. The problem is, I can't control how the fleet deploys. Mostly my requests fall on deaf ears.  

Oh - and the reason I read this post at all - I was hoping someone would know how long it takes to cap in Standard mode with two or three ships, assuming no resets. I know it's 3:00 by myself. And could someone clarify what is meant by "Therefore, if there are multiple ships in your base, you need to try to hit ALL of them so that you reset their progress." I was sure that if one is hit, the clock resets for however much it resets. Am I wrong? 

Edited by Mather44

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