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Burnsy

Does the Z-39 Do Well in Narai?

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I need a premium German ship to run Narai.  I could grab the Sharn but I have found that when running it with pick up groups, I prefer to run DDs.

I have no interest in using it for randoms but people seem to really dislike it.  Is there a reason it won't work well for torping the big bot ships in Narai?

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Nope. Its fine. But Leningrad's speed and better guns make it more useful. 

Check @Lightninger's vids on Youtube, to help decide what DD to play.

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Honestly, I hate seeing DDs in most Operations, Narai included.  They're just not survivable enough for my taste.

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1 hour ago, Taichunger said:

Nope. Its fine. But Leningrad's speed and better guns make it more useful. 

Check @Lightninger's vids on Youtube, to help decide what DD to play.

Thank you.

I do plan on getting the Leningrad as well.  I just so happen to have the Lazo premium I can run transports with for now and I have a 19pt German but no premium that I can swap him into.

I should probably just snag both of them while I am at it.

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After grinding with Z-39 in Narai, I will say that the DD is serviceable and does fairly well.

 

The turrets turn fast, guns reload fast, torps are a little under powered, but does reload quicker along with comfortable torp ranges.

The hydro and smoke does come in handy in certain situations, or in very dire circumstances which should be avoided in the first place.

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44 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Honestly, I hate seeing DDs in most Operations, Narai included.  They're just not survivable enough for my taste.

They are perfectly survivable. I learned from my clan leader, watching videos (see Taichunger's reference) and the guys in the hoperations group.  I am not as bleeding edge efficient at squeezing every last bit of XP out of a run as some of them, but sinking as a general rule isn't a really big problem. 

I will admit though that that stupid Nicolas can still give me some trouble if decides to come help the CV.

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6 minutes ago, Vader_Sama said:

After grinding with Z-39 in Narai, I will say that the DD is serviceable and does fairly well.

 

The turrets turn fast, guns reload fast, torps are a little under powered, but does reload quicker along with comfortable torp ranges.

The hydro and smoke does come in handy in certain situations, or in very dire circumstances which should be avoided in the first place.

Thanks Vader.

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35 minutes ago, Burnsy said:

They are perfectly survivable. I learned from my clan leader, watching videos (see Taichunger's reference) and the guys in the hoperations group.  I am not as bleeding edge efficient at squeezing every last bit of XP out of a run as some of them, but sinking as a general rule isn't a really big problem. 

I will admit though that that stupid Nicolas can still give me some trouble if decides to come help the CV.

Hey Burnsy, check this video if you want to know how to solo sink the Lexington and its escorts.

This works just as well in the Minsk also, and you can definitely get the Lexington sunk going around the island at the very least if the Nicholas does go north.

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2 hours ago, Burnsy said:

I need a premium German ship to run Narai.  I could grab the Sharn but I have found that when running it with pick up groups, I prefer to run DDs.

I have no interest in using it for randoms but people seem to really dislike it.  Is there a reason it won't work well for torping the big bot ships in Narai?

shot-19_07.18_23_27.04-0614.thumb.jpg.f12fed516f7e79eb76b02367773804c2.jpg

shot-19_07.18_22_57.50-0342.thumb.jpg.9dd080fd886b8a64874505a4cd392cc4.jpg

shot-19_07.18_19_27.45-0607.thumb.jpg.ec1364acdfe2de5cdd812cc9a768a8a9.jpg

shot-19_07.18_17_32.24-0525.thumb.jpg.3102920846da12b5f180d182c4e1f6da.jpg

shot-19_07.18_13.22_07-0680.thumb.jpg.f9ad23ae343c3aa2fe09c0c9ce55800d.jpg

Today's run. Full secondary build. Tomorrow Leningrad.

Edited by Sovereigndawg

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1 hour ago, Crucis said:

Honestly, I hate seeing DDs in most Operations, Narai included.  They're just not survivable enough for my taste.

Your bias against destroyers is clear and there isn't any point in your input here. You won't be dissuading him from getting a destroyer. I hope you realize that. And I have many replays using destroyers in all operations you can use them in showing that they are more than perfectly survivable. Any ship can get sunk really fast and really easily if used by a bad player. Just ask @TenguBlade about what is likely the absolute worst Narai game to ever happen.

Edited by Lightninger
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4 minutes ago, Lightninger said:

Your bias against destroyers is clear and there isn't any point in your input here. You won't be dissuading him from getting a destroyer. I hope you realize that. And I have many replays using destroyers in all operations showing that they are more than perfectly survivable. Any ship can get sunk really fast and really easily if used by a bad player. Just ask @TenguBlade about what is likely the absolute worst Narai game to ever happen.

Tell em Jim.

 

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Destroyers in operations can work, I did a 5-star Akatsuki run just last night. The problem is that most people who use them in pugs don't know what they're doing and are less effective than a clueless cruiser or battleship. Most will try to long-range torp the bots and inevitably fail, then resort to being a poor man's cruiser and peck at things from smoke. This isn't just about Narai, this has been my experience for almost all operations ever introduced (excluding Dynamo because destroyers are the only choice there). I'd say over all the operations I've ever played, pass or fail, destroyers were a meaningful contributor in about 20 or less of those games.

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Scharnhorst is absolutely epic for Narai; the only battleship that's better is Sinop, and then only because of Russian Bias accuracy that lets it straight up delete almost everything you face in that operation. Scharnhorst's speed, toughness, rate of fire, torpedoes, and secondaries are all of great value in tier 7 operations.

The one operation where I find I'd rather be playing a DD than a cruiser is Aegis; Fushun, Anshan, T-61, and Hatsuharu all work quite well in there, and it is easy to position for attack runs without getting surrounded, which is not always the case in most other ops.

--Helms

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Honestly, I usually find with destroyers it's a matter of how you use them rather than if you're sailing one and what nation/style.

Sure, too many dd's can ruin an op, but one or two can be perfectly useful, even IJN torpedoboat dd's (at least when my ping is not making me miss point-blank torpedoes). Usually it's a matter of a) selecting when to smoke, b) positioning yourself on the enemy's broadside to give the best chance for opportunistic fire-setting, citadels, torpedoes, etc. and c) if and when to just rush a certain target. When playing a ship with torpedoes in Narai, I like to yolo-rush the Missouri and point-blank torpedo it using the island it turns behind as cover. 9/10 times it works out and gives me a nice chunk of damage while also ridding the team of a huge threat.

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20 minutes ago, Avenge_December_7 said:

Honestly, I usually find with destroyers it's a matter of how you use them rather than if you're sailing one and what nation/style.

Sure, too many dd's can ruin an op, but one or two can be perfectly useful, even IJN torpedoboat dd's (at least when my ping is not making me miss point-blank torpedoes). Usually it's a matter of a) selecting when to smoke, b) positioning yourself on the enemy's broadside to give the best chance for opportunistic fire-setting, citadels, torpedoes, etc. and c) if and when to just rush a certain target. When playing a ship with torpedoes in Narai, I like to yolo-rush the Missouri and point-blank torpedo it using the island it turns behind as cover. 9/10 times it works out and gives me a nice chunk of damage while also ridding the team of a huge threat.

You mean like this? It may be a version 2 video so the ship spawns are different, but it's the same concept and tactic.

 

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5 minutes ago, Lightninger said:

You mean like this? It may be a version 2 video so the ship spawns are different, but it's the same concept and tactic.

 

Indeed, that is generally one of my preferred tactics on Narai in any ship with decent torpedoes (or a battleship that can just execute a drive-by point-blank salvo on the Missouri).

Then again, maybe I'm just trying to farm some sweet xp by killing a tier 9 with a tier 7 :Smile_teethhappy:. What can I say, I'm greedy like that.

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5 hours ago, Burnsy said:

Thank you.

I do plan on getting the Leningrad as well.  I just so happen to have the Lazo premium I can run transports with for now and I have a 19pt German but no premium that I can swap him into.

I should probably just snag both of them while I am at it.

Another option for you would be the "Shchors Northern Route" strategy by Lightninger.  Lazo is a perfect fit for that.  

Sharnhorst Rush appears to be a good strategy if you decide to go that direction.

Edited by Captain_Slattery

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6 hours ago, Lightninger said:

Your bias against destroyers is clear and there isn't any point in your input here.

I've got to sort of stick up for him here. If he's only ever played operations with random pickups, his anti-DD bias in ops is likely justified by bitter experience. Conversely, if I saw someone like you load into Narai with ANY DD at all, it'd make me very happy.

I hadn't even considered bringing a Gadjah Mada because she can't torpedo destroyers - but her guns should be good enough to take a Nicholas down with ease, and in extremis I guess she can even torp the Lexington or the transports THROUGH the escorting destroyer without wasting any on it if it gets in the way, so there is that.

Edited by Ensign_Cthulhu
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I've used the Z, Leningrad, Haida, Sims, and Mahan in Narai and have had great games.  It's not the ship type, it's the player.  The Haida, and Leningrad are great for taking out the Nicholas and transports.  Typically though I prepare myself to send the MO back from whence it came.

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1 hour ago, Amenhir said:

I've used the Z, Leningrad, Haida, Sims, and Mahan in Narai and have had great games.  It's not the ship type, it's the player.  The Haida, and Leningrad are great for taking out the Nicholas and transports.  Typically though I prepare myself to send the MO back from whence it came.

I'm not going to put words in  the OP mouth, but what I object to in Narai (or any other battle) is the potato driving the DD.   I've been on teams where the Captain in the DD carried the team, I've also been on random teams with 2 or 3 clueless captains in DDs making everyone miserable by dying early.  If I'm playing with random teammates in Narai, I usually just go back to port when there are multiple DD in the queue.  It just helps me keep my sanity.

The same can be said for anyone who either doesn't know what to do or how to utilize their ship.  It's just that a DD has a lower health pool to start with and mistakes are costly, for both the player and the team.  I watched a Shchors sail in a straight line out to get the transports, shooting at the fort and the red DD the whole way.  At least up to the point where he ate the torpedoes from the DD.  I watched a Shinnyhorse BB eat torpedoes from 2 red cruisers and die before the Missouri even arrived.  Usually this type of players isn't going to look at chat, they do what they are going to do, no matter what ship they happen to be in. 

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4 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

I've got to sort of stick up for him here. If he's only ever played operations with random pickups, his anti-DD bias in ops is likely justified by bitter experience. Conversely, if I saw someone like you load into Narai with ANY DD at all, it'd make me very happy.

I hadn't even considered bringing a Gadjah Mada because she can't torpedo destroyers - but her guns should be good enough to take a Nicholas down with ease, and in extremis I guess she can even torp the Lexington or the transports THROUGH the escorting destroyer without wasting any on it if it gets in the way, so there is that.

I brought the Gahjah Mada because I was grinding through it the easy way in Narai, same with Shiratsuyu. Neither of those two are in my port any longer. The destroyers I keep for regular rotation in Narai are Leningrad, Minsk, and Blyskawica. 

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8 minutes ago, Lightninger said:

I brought the Gahjah Mada because I was grinding through it the easy way in Narai, same with Shiratsuyu. Neither of those two are in my port any longer.

Okay, our agendas are very different here. I have GM because she is at heart a British destroyer, and she's as high as I'm going in Pan-Asia because the T8-10 don't interest me. So this is where my Pan-Asian 19 pointer is going to be born (with help from Anshan), because she's never moving out of this ship.

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4 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

I hadn't even considered bringing a Gadjah Mada because she can't torpedo destroyers - but her guns should be good enough to take a Nicholas down with ease, and in extremis I guess she can even torp the Lexington or the transports THROUGH the escorting destroyer without wasting any on it if it gets in the way, so there is that.

There hasn't been a situation where I would need to use my DD torps to kill any bot DD save for maybe the farragut in the harbor as I pass through the middle, but that's usually just a simple torp dump in the general area.

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13 hours ago, Vader_Sama said:

After grinding with Z-39 in Narai, I will say that the DD is serviceable and does fairly well.

 

The turrets turn fast, guns reload fast, torps are a little under powered, but does reload quicker along with comfortable torp ranges.

The hydro and smoke does come in handy in certain situations, or in very dire circumstances which should be avoided in the first place.

I think you have confused the Maass for the Z-39.  Turrets and guns are relatively slow for a DD...and it has one of the worst DPM in the tier.

It's still a decent DD...but it's main strengths (concealment and HP) transfer more effectively to something like ranked rather than Narai.

Don't get me wrong, I've five-starred Narai with it many times.  But, I would prefer almost any other gunboat DD over it for that Op.

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13 hours ago, Lightninger said:

Your bias against destroyers is clear and there isn't any point in your input here. You won't be dissuading him from getting a destroyer. I hope you realize that. And I have many replays using destroyers in all operations you can use them in showing that they are more than perfectly survivable. Any ship can get sunk really fast and really easily if used by a bad player. Just ask @TenguBlade about what is likely the absolute worst Narai game to ever happen.

It's not the DD's. It's 99% of the players who bring them.....:Smile_sceptic:

Hiding DD's and these scared bb players means cruisers have to absorb more damage. 

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