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Col_Nasty

AI improvements in CO-OP?

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Playing mostly Co-op this morning.   Been playing OPS and a few Randoms when I play anymore.  WOW! except for the usual weird stuff like friendlies(bots)  torping us from behind or chasing a DD all over the map the entire round ( you haven't lived until this has happened to you ) it seems like they have really made some cool changes to the Bot AI.  Haven't done anything past T6 yet but up until there so far the Bots are actually showing TACTICS.  Can't go to sleep in there anymore.  Just saw 2 CA Stop in their tracks and start Backing up and firing when they noticed I was about to blapp the crap out of them as they rounded an island.  THEN as they backed up and I moved in for the kill 2 MORE came around the corner and it was ON!   I got me some but got focused and died but it was GREAT!

DDs and Cruisers with torps are just scary now...   Keeps me honest for sure.  I seriously doubt that peoples win rates will drop  as we figure out the new moves ( the dodging torps like jetskis CAN be toned down a bit though ) but it not the simple Damage farming routine as it was.  Or at least today it seems that way.

Thanks WG for beefing up the Bots.  Now can we have Bot CVs back too??

Col-Out

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The Bot AI was tweaked quite awhile back. They still do stupid stuff like you mentioned and sometimes they also appear to have a plan and stick to it. The higher the tier it seems their skill increases.

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27 minutes ago, Col_Nasty said:

Now can we have Bot CVs back too??

Col-Out

Bot CV will probably be back with 8.6

They were tested on PTS last round.

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I think it has been stated that there several versions of bots. Maybe they are letting out some of the "smarter" ones. It does seem that more of them are stopping and backing up now.

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27 minutes ago, So_lt_Goes said:

Bot CV will probably be back with 8.6

They were tested on PTS last round.

Nooooooo!!!!! Oh well I do keep my Yubari warmed up.

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59 minutes ago, Col_Nasty said:

Playing mostly Co-op this morning.   Been playing OPS and a few Randoms when I play anymore.  WOW! except for the usual weird stuff like friendlies(bots)  torping us from behind or chasing a DD all over the map the entire round ( you haven't lived until this has happened to you ) it seems like they have really made some cool changes to the Bot AI.  Haven't done anything past T6 yet but up until there so far the Bots are actually showing TACTICS.  Can't go to sleep in there anymore.  Just saw 2 CA Stop in their tracks and start Backing up and firing when they noticed I was about to blapp the crap out of them as they rounded an island.  THEN as they backed up and I moved in for the kill 2 MORE came around the corner and it was ON!   I got me some but got focused and died but it was GREAT!

DDs and Cruisers with torps are just scary now...   Keeps me honest for sure.  I seriously doubt that peoples win rates will drop  as we figure out the new moves ( the dodging torps like jetskis CAN be toned down a bit though ) but it not the simple Damage farming routine as it was.  Or at least today it seems that way.

Thanks WG for beefing up the Bots.  Now can we have Bot CVs back too??

Col-Out

Bots will stop and back up if they are coming close to ramming each other. If you have fish it makes for a easy kill.

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45 minutes ago, So_lt_Goes said:

Bot CV will probably be back with 8.6

They were tested on PTS last round.

I know they were "coming soon", didn't realize they tied it to a specific release.  Thanks!

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I have been torp'd more time by Human team mates than AI lately., in fact I can't even remember the last time a bot got me.
Seems the ever increasing DD population in PVE is making many players take bigger risk's to rack up damage at the expense of team mates. 
I guess being pink all the time means little to them now.

Don't get me wrong, I've had my share of bone head moves leavening me pink, but at least I learn from my mistakes.

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Bot AI was actually reworked last year and was implemented in the PTS for the duration of the testing . Then maybe made it to live server about a week when it was scrapped because the AI was too advanced and gave everyone in coop a run for their money. There during that time bots would hide in smoke . Torp into smoke hide and kite you .leaving players with their hands full most of the match and bringing with it a backlash of why is it so hard to kill them . I for one want that to return . It was challenging and you didn't have the mighty go go bot rams all the time . Bots attacked/defended and evaded but the player base disliked it so much it was removed.

Meh, so now you're stuck with the DD chasing fleet that rams other ships for no apparent reason.

Bring them back WG! Bring them back!!!!

Edited by Versili
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1 minute ago, SpudZero said:

I have been torp'd more time by Human team mates than AI lately.

This.

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Well, get in a T10 GK with secondaries build and go play co-op.  You can pretty much go to sleep.  Set a autopilot route, hit repair every now and then, maybe a Main salvo or two and that's it, nice win, lots of damage, ships sunk, XP okay, Silver is bad as usual in T10 Co-Op.  But still a nice relaxing battle that doesn't take much effort! 

I probably shouldn't have posted this........

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I had bots torping into smoke yesterday. 

Hope your GK has good torp protection, 

Edited by GrayPanther2018
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The bots are still dumb, even the worst player can easily maintain a 90%+ Co-op Win Rate.

11 hours ago, SpudZero said:

[hidden]

I play tier X all the time, if we had more players like yourself, farming damage would be a breeze.
But we don't for the most part, we have players that hustle, leaving few scraps on the table for the guy on auto pilot. 

Co-op is more about getting as much for yourself and leaving nothing for everyone else :Smile_trollface:  The enemy isn't the opposing bot team.  It's your teammates :Smile_popcorn:

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9 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

The bots are still dumb, even the worst player can easily maintain a 90%+ Co-op Win Rate.

Tier II and III still scare me, have you seen how bad players can be down there?, even with thousands on games played.

 

11 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Co-op is more about getting as much for yourself and leaving nothing for everyone else :Smile_trollface:  The enemy isn't the opposing bot team.  It's your teammates :Smile_popcorn:

Yep, thus when I see you, some others on the team, on the outside I smile and wave say hi dude!, on the inside I'm plotting ways to steal all the damage :Smile_trollface:
It's a vicious game this thing we call CO-OP :Smile_izmena:

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16 hours ago, Versili said:

Bot AI was actually reworked last year and was implemented in the PTS for the duration of the testing . Then maybe made it to live server about a week when it was scrapped because the AI was too advanced and gave everyone in coop a run for their money. 

Actually the reason us Co-op players disliked the change is that it drug the matches out the full 20 minutes and the bots were still easy to beat. Since there was no change in pay out, earnings were cut to a fourth of what they had been.  

 

16 hours ago, Versili said:

 There during that time bots would hide in smoke . Torp into smoke hide and kite you .leaving players with their hands full most of the match and bringing with it a backlash of why is it so hard to kill them . I for one want that to return . It was challenging and you didn't have the mighty go go bot rams all the time . Bots attacked/defended and evaded but the player base disliked it so much it was removed.

No, what the bots did was kite. That is all they did although late game some of the bot DDs would use smoke. The bots did what human players in PvP do and that is kite so instead of going after a human DD in a cap, all the human player had to do was hit them once with guns and the bots would turn and run...... This made it really tough on DDs, BBs, and CAs to farm damage on the bots. It was great for carrier players since a kiting ship is easy to destroy. Got some of my best scores with RTS CVs because of the AI rework and my teammates who couldn't farm any damage....  BTW the bots kited to the extreme. My carrier was trapped between two bot BBs in one match and I figured I was dead... Until my secondaries opened up and that caused the two battleships to turn to kite me....... I escaped behind an island and sank them both because they ran away after taking fire from my carrier's secondaries............................. It was stupid, the whole thing was stupid because as usual, the people who design the game don't think things through. If you read the forums, no one was against making smarter bots, people were upset that one match took as long as 3 or 4  "normal" matches and it was costing them XP and credits.  The only thing that was hard about the entire mess was for co-op players to learn how to hit fleeing ships since this wasn't something you normally saw playing bots and was only found in PvP play where the meta is running away.......... 

Edited by Taylor3006
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11 hours ago, SpudZero said:

[hidden]

I play tier X all the time, if we had more players like yourself, farming damage would be a breeze.
But we don't for the most part, we have players that hustle, leaving few scraps on the table for the guy on auto pilot. 

Well Mr. Wizard, I play at night usually midnight to 8 a.m.  Do you know how many players are in T10 Co-op, usually 4 at the most, usually 1 or 2.  

I hope it made you feel good insulting someone that is telling the truth.  No, I didn't post what time I do this, but it's still the truth!  You should be ashamed!

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7 hours ago, FlashTX1 said:

Well Mr. Wizard, I play at night usually midnight to 8 a.m.  Do you know how many players are in T10 Co-op, usually 4 at the most, usually 1 or 2.  

I hope it made you feel good insulting someone that is telling the truth.  No, I didn't post what time I do this, but it's still the truth!  You should be ashamed!

You have less than 800 games in PVE, I have over 7600, I might know the mode better than you, I also play late night many nights, and the way you describe the matches ("You can pretty much go to sleep") is simply untrue, I'm happy to not have you on my team, you'd be of no use to anyone.

13 hours ago, FlashTX1 said:

Well, get in a T10 GK with secondaries build and go play co-op.  You can pretty much go to sleep.  Set a autopilot route, hit repair every now and then, maybe a Main salvo or two and that's it, nice win, lots of damage, ships sunk, XP okay, Silver is bad as usual in T10 Co-Op.  But still a nice relaxing battle that doesn't take much effort! 

I probably shouldn't have posted this........

^^^ that is not at all how it is in tier X, and if that's how you play at any time of the day, then you're being carried by everyone else and not helping the team, no sir, you should be ashamed, not I.

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I believe (just from my playing Co-op) that change started about 3 months ago....    Started seeing things that would NEVER happen back in Jan/Feb.    Like losing the game!!   Had this happen a few times in a week, that never happened before.  And seeing bot Cruisers and BBs not moving, just sitting back and shooting everything in range.  That did not happen before, they always kept moving.  Also better torp work (and seeming cooperation) with bot DDs.   It is more challenging now....better preparation for Random, Ranked, etc.

Glad the bots still will sail out of cap, or sail out with a few seconds left to cap!

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WG tested "smarter AI" at the end of last year in PT.  The bots weren't just smart, they had mad skilz.  Hitting a dodging DD from range was near impossible.  They actually used smoke, maneuvered in groups, focus fired, and their gunnery was magical.

There was much griping -- a lot from me.  But it wasn't the AI we were griping about; it was the unequal application: the red bots were smart and the green bots weren't.  Greens died in droves, usually leaving one human against six pretty good bots.  (Low human population on the PTS.)

I prefer smarter bots.  But it's really hard to make smart bots that aren't obviously cheating.

 

 

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On ‎7‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 4:31 PM, Versili said:

Bot AI was actually reworked last year and was implemented in the PTS for the duration of the testing . Then maybe made it to live server about a week when it was scrapped because the AI was too advanced and gave everyone in coop a run for their money.

It was scrapped because it was even dumber than the normal AI, doing things like turning away and kiting, or sailing in circles, the instant either side spotted the other.   Co-op battles were grinding on forever, no one was getting any better payout, and the bots were still losing anyway. 

It was like Random's Greatest Hits. 

 

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On 7/19/2019 at 5:44 AM, SpudZero said:

You have less than 800 games in PVE, I have over 7600, I might know the mode better than you, I also play late night many nights, and the way you describe the matches ("You can pretty much go to sleep") is simply untrue, I'm happy to not have you on my team, you'd be of no use to anyone.

^^^ that is not at all how it is in tier X, and if that's how you play at any time of the day, then you're being carried by everyone else and not helping the team, no sir, you should be ashamed, not I.

You think 800 isn't enough games to know how it works?  Just played a game in my Montana, 3 humans, me a CA and a DD @ 4:15 AM CDT.  I had to do more than in my GK but still a easy match with little effort on my part.  I guess that's what bothers you, I take it easy and enjoy it.  I'm sorry that pisses you off so bad.

As far as being on the same team, well that's up to MM, if we are on the same team we will win.  I hope that won't make you mad.  Life is too short to argue over Horse Hockey like this!

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On 7/18/2019 at 8:10 PM, FlashTX1 said:

Well Mr. Wizard, I play at night usually midnight to 8 a.m.  Do you know how many players are in T10 Co-op, usually 4 at the most, usually 1 or 2.  

I hope it made you feel good insulting someone that is telling the truth.  No, I didn't post what time I do this, but it's still the truth!  You should be ashamed!

300k+ carry matches are terrifying. Nothing like realizing youre the only one left and the AI still has 3 full health boats out there...

The AI has always been wonky... youll go match after match of cakewalks only to suddenly find yourself in a match against :xerxes: :shodan: instead of :apple2e:

Suddenly its smoke camping ammo changing torp ambushing cit salvoing deathbots. Its fun but its nail biting fun.

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5 minutes ago, Xanshin said:

300k+ carry matches are terrifying. Nothing like realizing youre the only one left and the AI still has 3 full health boats out there...

The AI has always been wonky... youll go match after match of cakewalks only to suddenly find yourself in a match against :xerxes: :shodan: instead of :apple2e:

Suddenly its smoke camping ammo changing torp ambushing cit salvoing deathbots. Its fun but its nail biting fun.

I LOVE fun!

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